Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Draw length when shooting with d loop

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Originally posted by AJ the TP Guru View Post
    My DL was always 31", which is what I had my Mathews Drenalin set at in 2008, that being the first bow I'd ever owned on which a D-loop was installed.

    I shot it well for about two years, then noticed that my bowshoulder had begun to awaken me in the middle of the night asking for Tylanol. It got so bad that target panic ensued. (For those who have been to my website, this story is old hat, just not the particulars.)

    Finally, I had a bowshop owner (Mathews dealer) in Las Vegas look at my form, and he suggested a 1" shortened cam. I said I wasn't doing anything different with form than I'd ever done, shooting compounds since the 70s.

    He asked if I'd ever had a D-Loop installed before. I said no, and he said that's why your shoulder is hurting, and why the target panic has shown up.

    One 30" cam later, the shoulder stopped hurting. It took another couple of weeks though, to get rid of the target panic.

    Edit: the unnecessarily long draw I had for two years ended up forming a calcium deposit on a shoulder tendon. In turn, that meant that I could no longer handle 70#. I'm down to 56# draw weight now, but plan to have arthroscopic surgery in 2016, hoping to get some strength back.
    You could just as easily shortened the release length.

    My point on the bow's draw length is this: By changing the bow's draw length you changed how your body (posture) and eye (sight picture) interact with the string. The question remains the same; did you have too long a draw length to begin with or did yo have to adapt to a different posture (head tilt) and sight picture?

    If, in fact, 31" is your perfect draw length (in relation to posture and sight picture) for you and, you are now shooting 30", you are shooting too short of a draw length, period.

    Of course it is better to be too short than too long. But my point is the same; adding the loop didn't change your draw length it changed the orientation of the elbow (and thereby the shoulder). Instead of addressing the distance from the nock to the elbow, with smaller loop or shortening the release length, you chose to shorten the draw length.

    Having said all that, and hearing what you have said, it is more likely you had too long of a draw length to begin with; most people do and it doesn't matter how long they've been shooting. Doing something wrong for 25 years doesn't make it right.

    I'm not hackin' on ya AJ, I'm just trying to put out all the information for everyone else that may be reading this and looking for help.

    Comment


      #17
      Thanks all for info. It is a wealth of knowledge and something that is greatly appreciated. I have learned something new today that I will be able to carry on to others

      Comment


        #18
        A D Loop does not change your draw length.The bow will draw what ever it is.But,your anchor will change.If your release is too long,it will seem a lot longer.Have a good day and carry on.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by txdukklr View Post
          I've far less expertise then this crew but I originally clipped to the string and when I added a loop I saw an immediate increase in accuracy but I did in fact reduce my draw length of the bow.

          Candidly depending on the bow I shoot different draw lengths. I love mathews but they are long compared to the hoyts and bowtechs so I shoot a half inch shorter.

          Get your DL measured and if possible shoot the bow with different mods or cams on it to find the number you want. I shot 28" Mathews up until I hit the no cam and found I couldn't shoot the bow to save my life. I dropped down to a 27.5 and found that I improved drastically. On a draw board the no cam was more then 28 although it had the 28 module in it.
          How much more?

          Comment


            #20
            Or.....

            You could use a shorter or smaller release aid, one with a shorter head on it. My DL and anchor stayed the same. I have found that the vast majority of people are shooting with release aids that are way too big, too.

            Old Killer (posted above) shoots in Senior Pro and probably has more knowledge than everyone here combined. I would not short change his advice.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Rat View Post
              You could just as easily shortened the release length.

              My point on the bow's draw length is this: By changing the bow's draw length you changed how your body (posture) and eye (sight picture) interact with the string. The question remains the same; did you have too long a draw length to begin with or did yo have to adapt to a different posture (head tilt) and sight picture?

              If, in fact, 31" is your perfect draw length (in relation to posture and sight picture) for you and, you are now shooting 30", you are shooting too short of a draw length, period.

              Of course it is better to be too short than too long. But my point is the same; adding the loop didn't change your draw length it changed the orientation of the elbow (and thereby the shoulder). Instead of addressing the distance from the nock to the elbow, with smaller loop or shortening the release length, you chose to shorten the draw length.

              Having said all that, and hearing what you have said, it is more likely you had too long of a draw length to begin with; most people do and it doesn't matter how long they've been shooting. Doing something wrong for 25 years doesn't make it right.

              I'm not hackin' on ya AJ, I'm just trying to put out all the information for everyone else that may be reading this and looking for help.
              This !

              Comment


                #22
                Yep,draw length doesn't change.

                DJ

                Comment


                  #23
                  So, if every bow has it's own ideal draw length, does that mean that we should all figure out what that is for our bow and then shoot it that way, whether it matches our body's draw length or not? What if a guy with a measured 28" draw length wants to shoot a bow that has an ideal draw length of 30"? Does he just learn to anchor behind his ear, or what?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Shane View Post
                    So, if every bow has it's own ideal draw length, does that mean that we should all figure out what that is for our bow and then shoot it that way, whether it matches our body's draw length or not? What if a guy with a measured 28" draw length wants to shoot a bow that has an ideal draw length of 30"? Does he just learn to anchor behind his ear, or what?
                    I think you've mis-interpreted something.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Shane View Post
                      So, if every bow has it's own ideal draw length, does that mean that we should all figure out what that is for our bow and then shoot it that way, whether it matches our body's draw length or not? What if a guy with a measured 28" draw length wants to shoot a bow that has an ideal draw length of 30"? Does he just learn to anchor behind his ear, or what?
                      The bow is a machine. Nothing more, nothing less. The individual is the one with the ideal draw length, and the machine should be modified to fit, not the other way around.

                      Somewhat like adjustable mirrors in a vehicle, they can be adapted to a range of users.

                      The shooters draw length is a number, and through several adjustments on cams, strings, releases and loops, the bow can be set up to match what the individual needs. Too many people don't take the time to find the best set up for themselves, and go with what they are told is best.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by rocky View Post
                        I think you've mis-interpreted something.
                        I probably did. It sounded like we shouldn't adjust a bow's draw length. We should, instead, adjust our own anchor point (and draw length) to fit the bow and leave the bow alone.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Shane View Post
                          I probably did. It sounded like we shouldn't adjust a bow's draw length. We should, instead, adjust our own anchor point (and draw length) to fit the bow and leave the bow alone.
                          Your draw length is your draw length, it never changes. The bow's draw could change from bow to bow though.

                          For example: I have a 2006 Bowtech Tribute has a DL of 28", my CSS that is a 2007 has DL of 28.5. My actual draw length doesn't change, but each manufacturer measures their draw length and cams a little differently.

                          IOW, from my thumb pad to just under my eye (my draw length) will never change. I have found that when I change the grip on my target bows I usually need to have a different DL than what I had originally. For example: My Mathews is a 28" DL, but when I put the target grip I had to change it to 27.5" because the grip was about a half an inch shallower than the stock grip.

                          But remember, this is from my thumb pad to under my eye; what happens behind that (with my D-loop and release) doesn't impact my draw length, or it shouldn't anyway.

                          Another thing to consider is that my ACTUAL draw length is 27.75", So I usually have to shoot a 28" setting on my bow and then twist down my string to hit my perfect draw length. Since I build my own strings it is easy to build the perfect string.

                          Anchor point is what happens after the perfect draw length is set. Where you want to anchor based on your shooting style, release style and achieving the wedge all happens after the draw length is perfect; and this is done by adjusting the D-loop and the length of the release.
                          Last edited by Rat; 01-20-2016, 07:18 PM.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Everything Rat has said is spot on with my understanding. Once you get the the bow draw length set for you like Rat stated nock under eye and string to nose if possible. Quick test you could try is to shoot a group of fletched arrows at say 20 yrds. Then shoot 1 bareshaft at the same spot. If the bareshaft hits right then shorten your loop. If it hits left then lengthen your loop. This is showing how your release side elbow is aiming the bareshaft.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              ok I'm confused by the back and forth but I think I'm following

                              I think what I'm suggesting is to add the loop (i have my guy make it as small as is reasonably possible) then shoot your bow.

                              for me and me only the 28" bow that i was shooting at that time forced me to go to 27.5" or change my then current anchor point. A few bows later I moved back to 28" for a handful of bows and my last two bows I moved back to 27.5.

                              I think bow makers DL aren't always spot on. I realize my dl is not changing but the same bow when i added the loop I had to go smaller.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by txdukklr View Post
                                ok I'm confused by the back and forth but I think I'm following

                                I think what I'm suggesting is to add the loop (i have my guy make it as small as is reasonably possible) then shoot your bow.

                                for me and me only the 28" bow that i was shooting at that time forced me to go to 27.5" or change my then current anchor point. A few bows later I moved back to 28" for a handful of bows and my last two bows I moved back to 27.5.

                                I think bow makers DL aren't always spot on. I realize my dl is not changing but the same bow when i added the loop I had to go smaller.
                                You could just as easily have shortened your release to keep the same draw length and anchor.

                                The real question is: Was the draw length right to begin with? IOW, how the string made contact with your face? If this is right, it should never change; like you said though, bows will have different numbers, but the actual string contact (draw length) doesn't change.

                                Let's say that your form was perfect and the string was perfect on your face without a D-loop, then you add a D-loop; now your anchor is too far back. The correct thing to do (thinking from a form perspective) is to shorten the release and get the anchor back or just anchor farther back (if you can). You chose to shorten the draw length instead.

                                IF the draw length was perfect, now you are short drawn, which is better than long drawn, but still not perfect like it was before you made the draw length change.

                                IF you can still have good form with the shorter draw length (elbow slightly out but still a nice trapezoid) and do it every time, then there is no problem.

                                If you watch Reo Wilde shoot (No. 3 in the world) he has a weird form, he leans back at full draw; but he does it the same every time and he is a world class competitor.

                                IOW, the draw length shouldn't change (if it is already perfect), but if you choose to change it, make sure it isn't detrimental to your form and your shooting.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X