Is your management plan really working?

[GarGuy]

Im in East tx and hunting small low or no fence properties. years ago we felt that if we didnt shoot a deer ,someone else would. the only sure thing about that was that the deer got shot. along comes trail cameras and we learn that most deer that made 3 years old would survive until the next year. We created sanctuaries for safety and started adding nutrition..

Virtually every deer we kill at 7 years old now is a deer we have known and passed before. Our average buck is much better than 45 years ago. Large properties are totally different but it is certainly possible to have a management plan that works on very small properties. Age, security, nutrition

[Bowanta]

I am on a 3,100 acre East Texas timber property that is under MLD. The bucks have to be trophy at a minimum of 4.5 yrs old, or a cull of the same age. Spikes can be taken at 3.5 yrs old. This past year there were only 12 doe tags issued, and that is based on the Over hunting that occurred a few years back. Buck quality is there, but the majority were only seen on trail cams at night. Out of twelve members on the lease only ONE buck was harvested and it scored 160". Live weight was around 200 lbs, and a dressed weight of approx. 160. management DOES work, but everyone MUST be on board and follow the feeding and harvest program.
This was my first year on the lease and I am not sure if I will be back on it or not. I enjoy the location and the ability to get away, but the 3.5 hour drive gets a little long when you only get about 1 day off work a week. There are Numerous Quality Trophy Bucks on the place, but it really is a matter of being in the Right Place at the Right Time..

[Kdog]

"Culling" does not work unless you're behind a high fence, and even then it takes years to see results. You can't shift the evolutional curve with outside influence on your herd. There's been tons of studies done on the subject, and they all came up with the same conclusion... basically you're killing a deer and that's about it. My mgmt plan is to feed the heck out of them, let e'm grow and see what happens hoping some of the genetically superior deer will make it. And yes it works, just takes lots of money and patience.

I agree with this. Although sometimes calling something a cull or management buck is just about having a different category for a buck. A deer that isn't going to be shoulder mounted in you living room, but he reached an age where it is unlikely he will get much better, but he is not a true top end buck for the area/ranch.

People seem to get fired up about debating this. To me it won't hurt anything to let an "inferior" buck walk and see what he does next year. At the same time over the years I have seen that some (actually a lot) deer just never blow up like you hope. Sometimes they get smaller. You just never know what they will do. At the end of the day feed the deer as much as you can, let the young bucks walk. Be patient, the neighbors can't kill them all .....but sometimes deer just die on their own too.

But to answer the original posts question, yes following a management plan "works". Letting bucks get the age on them is the key.

[AntlerCollector]

Im in East tx and hunting small low or no fence properties. years ago we felt that if we didnt shoot a deer ,someone else would. the only sure thing about that was that the deer got shot. along comes trail cameras and we learn that most deer that made 3 years old would survive until the next year. We created sanctuaries for safety and started adding nutrition..

Virtually every deer we kill at 7 years old now is a deer we have known and passed before. Our average buck is much better than 45 years ago. Large properties are totally different but it is certainly possible to have a management plan that works on very small properties. Age, security, nutrition

100% agree with this where I hunt in East Texas

[boh347]

Culling DOES work to remove the mouths of live deer with less than ideal antler traits and does so that your better deer can have access to the property's food supply. That helps in your "feed the heck out of them" category...

Truth, our biologist said we have to many deer per acre and some need to go.

[Cull hunter]

I think the word "culling" is over used and misunderstood. Regardless of low or high fence it will be difficult to remove all of a particular genetic trait especially on larger acreage. Having "control" certainly helps but won't completely negate your results. There is no one size fits all and years will vary on trophy size as well as inferior characteristics with what your plan needs to be.

I think each place has to have its own plan based on all the factors of the property. I do agree on some aspects that have been mentioned here however. Age being number one. Getting as many bucks to maturity is critical. The adage of once an 8 always an 8 doesn't always apply. Deer are affected by range conditions at all times regardless of supplemental feeding. It can also be traced back to their first year. Nutrition is also critical.

And "culling" will have a place and an impact in all plans.

If whatever your plan is and if it is improving the herd stay with it.

[ThePumaLives]

Sorry I hit the submit button and didn't mean to.


As far as where I hunt in Eldorado, I added cottonseed, protein, rice bran, mineral blocks, and a water station in my hunting areas. Over the last two years I've seen an increase in deer numbers. The highest scoring deer on our place was shot by my wife this season. We both killed bucks that were about 25-30 lbs heavier than bucks where killed in prior seasons. I hope this is a result from the work that I've put in to help the deer herd.

This right here. Our main points of emphasis are population control, age, and nutrition. I took out a hyper aggressive 1.5 year old buck this past season that weighed as much as some of the 3.5 year olds we took a couple of years ago. All of our deer have put on some serious weight these last couple of years and the increased antler growth is starting to show. Of course, we’re still over populated but I don’t expect to ever get under carrying capacity when none of the neighbors shoot does. We’ve also got the only year round water on our place in about a half mile and are the only ones who feed protein in that same area; add in some thick cover and we’ve become one of those sanctuary areas that Gar Guy swears by, and they work.

[elgato]

I manage a couple properties, one in La. and one deep down south along the Rio Grande.
The principles are simple:

Focus as much attention to nutrition as budget will allow...then a bit more. Both supplemental feed as well as habitat management are valuable.

Allow as many bucks as possible to age as old as possible. We remove nothing before 4.Then we do remove some of the lessor quality bucks to manage population with no pretense that it effects the overall genetics of the herd.

Balance the b/d ratio and ensure enough does for high recruitment.

In La. we start shooting trophies at 6 and down south 7 or preferably 8 and older. Age is always your friend.

Having done this for over 20 years in both locations, body weights have improved significantly and antler quality has improved dramatically both on average as well as the top end. Our 'culls' seem to excite everyone that gets to hunt them.

[Rwc]

Below is something I posted in 2011 to a question asked of me regarding my North Bosque River grounds, and I still live by the same plan and yes it seems to work for this specific piece of ground......

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIREFIGHTER16 View Post
Rwc....Nice pics and good looking deer !

It appears you're providing supplemental feeds. May I ask , what free choice foods/protein are you feeding and how long have you been involved in your mgnt. program ?

The only supplemental feeds I provide are in the form of seasonal food plots. The North Bosque River Basin provides most of the browse needed for the deer herd to sub-stain a healthy body weight around my grounds. We do our very best to keep the deer numbers in check and I think that helps allot also. This year I have not been able to pump a little water out of the river to irrigate a couple of small spring / summer plots do to the drought. I will tell you that I did try supplementing feeding / protein feed for an entire year, twice. Never could get deer to become interested in eating the protein. And I did try all the tricks, along with trying three different types. They nibbled on it in late January and February both those years but that was about it.

I feed a corn / maze / wheat mixture out of the gravity feeders, more as a filler / attractant than anything else and the deer around my grounds seem to love it. I do pour a couple bags of Purina mineral lick in a low spot each year, and at times the deer make a heck of a whole digging around in it.
I have been involved in managing this ground since the mid 1990's. The three things I work at the hardest, as for as managing my place is: First, I try to get along with my neighbors and share deer data hoping this keeps them aware of my interest in growing mature deer. Second, I try and kill all my does the state allows, plus invite a few friends to help kill does if I see that I have more does eating at feeders than bucks. Third, and most of all, I try not to kill any bucks until they are 4.5 are older no matter there horn characteristics. I firmly believe that no matter how hard we as hunters try to manage horn characteristics by selective harvest, there are too many variables that make it impossible to do on free ranging and or high fence grounds.

Thanks
Rwc

[CrookedArrow]

We manage our place to have a good time for our members and their families and try to kill some good deer for our area. We remove mouths of less than desirable deer and let the younger deer with what we view as good antler traits, get some more age on them. Some of us supplemental feed and provide water at 7 out of 14 feedpens and some cannot afford to or chose not to. We kill some good deer every year and for the most part folks are happy.....so yes our specific management plan is working..





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With what you have stated Jason and you did not specify this in the above answer. Would you say that out of the 14 members on your lease 7 or 50% of the group are shooting bigger, better bucks, does? Where as the other 7 are not??

I am curious. I will be on a lease with 5 others. They do NOT supplement feed but corn feed year round. If I kick it up a notch would I possibly shoot better deer?

[CrookedArrow]

Truth, our biologist said we have to many deer per acre and some need to go.

Really? where do you hunt??

[boh347]

Really? where do you hunt??

This is on silver

[lovemylegacy]

Watching Mr. Middleton's video (nice video btw) where he took out the 8 point 3 1/2 yr old and he made reference to the management plan for his place.

Curious for you that have a management plan has it made a difference? I have not stayed on a lease long enough to really incorporate any kind plan for more then a season or 2.

Is the protein, cotton seed, culling of does, bucks etc really working out for you and your group? Does it work only when the ENTIRE group is on board? or can you be the self one and still have better, bigger deer?

Fill me in. Oh and BTW.................I am in no way poking at Michael's deer. Looking at it I may have passed on it only because he was a bit young. But I can also understand it was a 8 at 3 1/2 and probably not going to be more then that.

The biggest key in management is letting them grow, without this one key, none of the other ones will work.

So yes, our management plan is working

[lovemylegacy]

Culling DOES work to remove the mouths of live deer with less than ideal antler traits and does so that your better deer can have access to the property's food supply. That helps in your "feed the heck out of them" category...

Smart, doe yall "cull" does also or just bucks?

[Azzy]

I think ours is working. Weren't allowed to kill fallow or sika for 2 years and I've been seeing some nice numbers on camera this year. Hopefully I get to whack a fallow this year.