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Test Targets With New Guns?

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    Test Targets With New Guns?

    How important is a test target to you when purchasing a new rifle or custom gun? I’m looking for feedback from our TBH brethren regarding this topic to get a feel for how much value folks think this actually adds to the purchase of a new rifle. It is something we are considering doing moving forward as we get asked by quite a few potential customers when inquiring about our “ready to ship” production rifles.

    We have not included them in the past for a multitude of reasons. One of the biggest factors is added cost. Given the number of rifles we produce we would need to hire another full time employee to set up optics, go to the range, shoot multiple brands of ammo through each gun, log data, clean rifles and remove optics every day of the week. All of that expense would have to be passed on to the customer for something they might not want or need. Secondly, we are confident in the product we produce and back it up. If a customer is not happy with it, neither are we…... Period. So is it really worth the extra $$ on the final price tag for a piece of paper with some holes in it? I also question if it really represents the true potential of the gun being sold. All it shows me is the test shooters skill that day with that particular lot of factory ammo in those particular conditions with a brand new barrel that hasn’t even begun to show it’s potential yet. None of which is valuable to me and I personally wouldn’t want to pay extra for it.

    All that said, we’re building them not buying them and my views and opinions on it take a back seat to those of our customer’s. As mentioned earlier, we have received quite a few requests to include them when we list a new rifle for sale. We have no problem with doing just that if that’s what most customers really want to see. We just don’t want to add unnecessary costs if a majority of customers won’t find value in it, as it would be adding considerable costs to the final product.

    So, what are YOUR thoughts???

    I did grab 2 production rifles off the wall this morning, scoped them up and took them to the range and shot a couple test targets. Both shot 5 shot groups under ½” with factory ammo after a couple sighters to get them close on paper. I still don’t feel like I did either one justice. We’ll be posting them tomorrow on Facebook, Instagram or some such with the targets, so I guess we will see how its received.

    Thanks,
    Robert
    Aprifles.com

    #2
    I wouldn't want to pay for it unless it included load development honestly.

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      #3
      Personally, it would depend on how much money I spent.

      $2K semi custom, I wouldn’t care, wouldn’t really expect, and honestly would hope I could get a better group with fine tuning some loads/tweaking the setup.

      Full custom with a very detailed build spec and a $3K+ price, I’d prefer to shoot with the builder using my optics before leaving with the rifle in my possession. If the builder had a good radar chrono and would help gather data/work up an initial load quickly with me shooting - I’d pay extra for that service regardless of price I spent on the rifle.

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        #4
        Originally posted by bphillips View Post
        I wouldn't want to pay for it unless it included load development honestly.
        This.

        Comment


          #5
          It all depends on the Builder. My Gun Smith guarantees 1/2 MOA with Factory Ammo at a 100 yards. Every rifle they build comes with a Target and they build a ton of rifles. It's his way to make sure it shoots 1/2 MOA before it leaves. It also puts the customer at ease knowing there rifle will shoot. It really depends on your business model if you guarantee it to shoot or not. By adding a Target I think it eliminates anyone coming back and saying there Rifle won't shoot. It also lets the customer know the potential of the rifle. I personally won't buy a Custom Rifle from a builder without a target or guarantee. You could also look at this way. Customer spends several thousand dollars on a rifle, he finally receives it after months of waiting. Rifle won't shoot, know he has to send it back. That will leave a pretty bad taste in his mouth, after spending a few thousand on the rifle. If you would have shot the rifle, it wouldn't have left your shop until it met your standards.
          So yes I think you should start doing this.

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            #6
            If it isn't tested before leaving your shop, how do you know how well it will shot?

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              #7
              In my opinion, there are two different classifications here. Factory ammo vs load development. Load development would add up to huge costs in labor, inventory, and dies. I feel that is the gun owners responsibility and part of what I enjoy with reloading. I would guess that the cost required for load development would be higher than a majority would want to pay.

              Building a custom rifle to shoot factory ammo in a half inch group would need to be limited to specific calibers that offer match ammo good enough to make this claim.

              Ultimately I would say no it is not worth it with the way you stand behind your rifles anyway.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by JakeGraves View Post

                Building a custom rifle to shoot factory ammo in a half inch group would need to be limited to specific calibers that offer match ammo good enough to make this claim.
                This has become the norm and it's not caliber specific and match ammo is not needed it's done every day with regular factory hunting ammunition. Many builders are doing this.

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                  #9
                  If you gaurantee your guns to shoot sub MOA and stand by it I wouldn't have to have a target, Some people will shoot better and some shoot worse than the guy testing these rifles.for the guys that don't shoot that well the Target could keep them from coming back saying the rifle didn't shoot as well as the garantee that APR places on your rifles.jmo

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Maxlab View Post
                    This has become the norm and it's not caliber specific and match ammo is not needed it's done every day with regular factory hunting ammunition. Many builders are doing this.
                    Show me a half inch 30-30 then.

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                      #11
                      Hmmmmm.....I'm a little mixed on this. For your repeat customers that know the quality of APR, an added cost for accuracy confirmation may not be important.

                      However, I'll bet the majority of sales go to customers who shoot factory ammunition. Knowing what works up front would be very desirable in my opinion.

                      Overall, I see a test target as a good thing and would be willing to pay extra for the accuracy confirmation, especially knowing it shoots factory ammo sub-moa.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by mpotts View Post
                        If you gaurantee your guns to shoot sub MOA and stand by it I wouldn't have to have a target, Some people will shoot better and some shoot worse than the guy testing these rifles.for the guys that don't shoot that well the Target could keep them from coming back saying the rifle didn't shoot as well as the garantee that APR places on your rifles.jmo
                        Agreed except I would expect well under 1 moa on even a semi custom gun.

                        My opinion is that if you show enough target pics of every rifle you can put them with that a customer has bought then that's what I'd do. One of my smiths keeps a book with nearly every build they have done. They do load work at the customers request and expense and they include a copy of the target from final load including data that goes beside the pic. You can see color options and parts options this way as well as how well they shoot. I always Leary of a smith that would rather show pics of what all their builds look like instead of how they shoot. And I expect every single full custom to shoot well under .5 moa. The ES and SD they got on their loads also interests me. A slammer 100 yard group doesn't always equal a hammer rifle at 1000+. And I know a vast majority of the public can't reload AND shoot all that well to repeat those groups consistently.
                        Last edited by trophy8; 10-12-2017, 07:01 AM.

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                          #13
                          Here's a 5 shot group at 100 yards with a rifle Robert built. This group was shot off a bipod laying prone.
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by JakeGraves View Post
                            Here's a 5 shot group at 100 yards with a rifle Robert built. This group was shot off a bipod laying prone.
                            6 Creedmoor or Dasher?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Realistically if a mfg want to do this they need a tunnel test facility and capital to do it. You can't cherry pick the weather conditions with any kind of year round production schedule. Just not affordable for most builders.

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