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    #76
    Nobody was dying in the streets for lack of access to doctors before Obamacare. But if we end up with single payer government run healthcare, a whole bunch of people will not have access to the care they need when they need it. It will be like going to the DMV.

    It's not about paying taxes or helping people who need help. It's about whether government or the private sector can do a better job in providing healthcare to the people. There will be flaws and weaknesses in either system, but if we let the government take control of it it will be worse than if the private sector runs it. THAT is what it's about.

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      #77
      Originally posted by Shane View Post
      Nobody was dying in the streets for lack of access to doctors before Obamacare. But if we end up with single payer government run healthcare, a whole bunch of people will not have access to the care they need when they need it. It will be like going to the DMV.

      It's not about paying taxes or helping people who need help. It's about whether government or the private sector can do a better job in providing healthcare to the people. There will be flaws and weaknesses in either system, but if we let the government take control of it it will be worse than if the private sector runs it. THAT is what it's about.


      Nail on the head Shane. There is no incentive for efficiency, or quality in a Government run system. There will be incentive for collecting more taxes.

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        #78
        I just watched the actual video of the vote and McDramaqueen literally gave an arm-extended-long-pause-for-effect thumbs down to cast his vote against the bill i.e. Roman emperor style.

        With his POW torture and his health issues, he seriously needs an intervention.

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          #79
          Originally posted by Shane View Post
          It's not about paying taxes or helping people who need help. It's about whether government or the private sector can do a better job in providing healthcare to the people. There will be flaws and weaknesses in either system, but if we let the government take control of it it will be worse than if the private sector runs it. THAT is what it's about.
          + we simply cannot afford it, period. Almost $20T in debt right now.

          It would likely greatly increase illegal immigration and cause many aspiring medical students to choose other careers outside of medicine leading to inevitable doctor shortages. Would you go through 15 years of med school taking on ~$500k in student loan debt to work a government job?

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            #80
            There are many things the private sector does better than the government. Healthcare isn't one of them.

            I would refer you to stats in other first world countries but you wouldn't believe them.

            But US lags behind in pretty much all the metrics related to public health compared to countries that have single payer systems. And we pay more. Way more

            PS: before anyone tells me to move there..... I'm not!!
            Last edited by SMC; 07-28-2017, 01:35 PM. Reason: .

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              #81
              Just ask Charlie Gard's parents how well government run health insurance works.

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                #82
                Originally posted by SMC View Post
                There are many things the private sector does better than the government. Healthcare isn't one of them.

                I would refer you to stats in other first world countries but you wouldn't believe them.

                But US lags behind in pretty much all the metrics related to public health compared to countries that have single payer systems. And we pay more. Way more

                PS: before anyone tells me to move there..... I'm not!!
                Countries with similar population and demographic makeup as ours? Or are they much smaller and more homogeneous? Also, where do their rich go for healthcare?
                Last edited by Clay C; 07-28-2017, 01:39 PM.

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                  #83
                  Originally posted by SMC View Post
                  There are many things the private sector does better than the government. Healthcare isn't one of them.

                  I would refer you to stats in other first world countries but you wouldn't believe them.

                  But US lags behind in pretty much all the metrics related to public health compared to countries that have single payer systems. And we pay more. Way more

                  PS: before anyone tells me to move there..... I'm not!!
                  Why do people from Canada and Europe come to the US for the healthcare they need when they can't get it from their own government's systems?

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by SMC View Post
                    There are many things the private sector does better than the government. Healthcare isn't one of them.

                    I would refer you to stats in other first world countries but you wouldn't believe them.

                    But US lags behind in pretty much all the metrics related to public health compared to countries that have single payer systems. And we pay more. Way more

                    PS: before anyone tells me to move there..... I'm not!!
                    Then why did we have people from Canada and the U.K., among others, coming to the U.S. for treatment? As far as government ran healthcare, the VA is a prime example of that. NO THANKS!!

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                      #85
                      Yeah right!! Ask parents that just lost their baby!! I can only imagine what they going thru.
                      This is not an issue that should be decided on emotions!!

                      Facts!!! The problem is we believe in different sets of "facts"

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                        #86
                        Originally posted by SMC View Post
                        Yeah right!! Ask parents that just lost their baby!! I can only imagine what they going thru.
                        This is not an issue that should be decided on emotions!!

                        Facts!!!
                        The problem is we believe in different sets of "facts"
                        Ok. Emotions aside, the facts are their government prevented him from getting the care that could have saved him.

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                          #87
                          Originally posted by Shane View Post
                          Why do people from Canada and Europe come to the US for the healthcare they need when they can't get it from their own government's systems?
                          Come on man!! That's not true at all. It's only the very very heeled people that come here. That too very very few compared to the populations of that countries

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                            #88
                            Originally posted by SMC View Post
                            Yeah right!! Ask parents that just lost their baby!! I can only imagine what they going thru.
                            This is not an issue that should be decided on emotions!!

                            Facts!!! The problem is we believe in different sets of "facts"
                            Exactly. The emotional argument that government can provide "healthcare" for everybody is the wrong thing to base the decision on. They call it "healthcare", but what we're talking about is health insurance. CARE is what you get from the doctors and nurses and hospitals. How you pay for it is what we're talking about. By putting government in charge of the money, you also give them control over who gets access to what. The Charlie Gard case is a VERY real factual example of what that is like. It's also illustrative of why so many others from those countries that have the "superior" healthcare systems are all clamoring to come to the US to get the care they need when their governments won't allow them to get it at home.

                            You can believe all the so-called statics that are slanted to "prove" an argument in favor of government run health insurance if you want to, but that doesn't make it fact that those systems are better than ours. The US has a lot more uninsured people showing up in those stats because of the huge illegal immigration problem that we have - that those other countries don't have. And yet, if you go to our emergency rooms, all those uninsured illegals are getting all the free healthcare they need. And people from the countries that have "better" healthcare than we do are coming here as well to get care.

                            It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who has the best healthcare system on the planet. Why we'd want to be more like the countries who are lagging behind us in that regard is beyond me.

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                              #89
                              Originally posted by SMC View Post
                              Come on man!! That's not true at all. It's only the very very heeled people that come here. That too very very few compared to the populations of that countries
                              EXACTLY. Only those who can afford it or who can raise enough money to make the journey can get to America to get the best care. The average socialist country citizen is STUCK in their crappy government-controlled system. (like the Gard family) Wouldn't it be great if we lowered the quality of our system here so that we could be on a level playing field with the rest of them?

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                                #90
                                Originally posted by Livin'2hunt View Post
                                I know, you cannot answer this because your head is in your vagina but try to stay with me:

                                What about the people who, because of Treason Care, lost or can no longer afford insurance they once had?

                                Step up to the plate and play big boy games and answer the question.
                                One million were sacrificed for 42million
                                It's a numbers game
                                Pure and simple

                                Those one million took it on the chin for their country

                                Thank you for their service

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