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    #31
    Originally posted by Rat View Post
    Not so.

    If I build two identical arrows in weight, but one has flu-flu vanes, the flu-flu arrow will not hit the same spot.

    The increased drag from the flu-flu vanes will cause the arrow to slow down much faster.

    Weight isn't everything...
    I agree 100% with you but those arrows do not have a "fundamental equivalence" and you are factoring drag into the equation.

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      #32
      Originally posted by canny View Post
      That's funny cause this past weekend I was shooting with my step-dad. His bow is tuned to his light 380g Gold Tip arrow (very similar OD as my CE Maxima Reds) and when I let him shoot my heavy 495g arrows they were all in the same group. No statistical difference in elevation at 20 yards.

      How does that fit into your statement about heavier arrows shooting lower every time at EVERY range?
      yes every range will be lower and at 20 yards the difference will be small. It is math. Gravity is constant. A heavier arrow is slower so will drop more at every range.

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        #33
        Originally posted by Tom View Post
        yes every range will be lower and at 20 yards the difference will be small. It is math. Gravity is constant. A heavier arrow is slower so will drop more at every range.


        Since you brought up math I’ll throw out statistics. Statistically there is no significant different in the drop of both arrows at 20 yards. To simplify if something drops 2” at a certain distance and another drops 2.1” then mathematically you could say that the latter drops more, but statistically the drop is insignificant so therefore they are the same.


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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          #34
          no...it is measureable which is why I mentioned using a shooting device like a hooter shooter so that the aiming point is consistent. Human error is variable when measuring anything...I am not trying to start an argument. You mentioned that perhaps the heavy arrow resisted gravity which is why your point is valid. You could be correct but it is not what I believe to be true. either way...if you are hitting your target you are ready for hunting season!
          Last edited by Tom; 05-04-2018, 08:32 PM.

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            #35
            Originally posted by Tom View Post
            no...it is measureable which is why I mentioned using a shooting device like a hooter shooter so that the aiming point is consistent. Human error is variable when measuring anything...I am not trying to start an argument. You mentioned that perhaps the heavy arrow resisted gravity which is why your point is valid. You could be correct but it is not what I believe to be true. either way...if you are hitting your target you are ready for hunting season!
            Two arrows with the same dimensions, fired from the same angle and from the same height will hit the ground at the same time, regardless of differences in weight, since you don't build up enough vertical velocity to make drag a big factor.

            However, in the horizontal direction, you have great enough velocity to factor in drag. And there's two strikes against light arrows: the first being that you start out with a lower momentum than a heavier arrow, the second is that drag is proportional to the square of velocity, meaning the drag force is much higher on something going fast.

            So in the short time of arrow flight that you have, it's mathematically possible that the lighter arrow will at some point be travelling at the same velocity as the heavier arrow (assuming they both don't hit the ground first). And it will continue to lose speed more quickly than the heavy arrow because of the difference in momentum. Now if the heavy arrows has adequate flight time, it can make up the distance between the two as the velocity gap between them widens.

            I'd do the math to show an example, but the impulse due to drag is a PITA to calculate since it's a function of velocity, and velocity is a function of drag.

            Though a simple example would be playing golf with a ping pong ball vs a golf ball. Both have nearly identical radii, and while the ping pong ball's initial velocity will be much higher when you hit it, it won't go nearly as far as the golf ball.

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              #36
              Originally posted by sir shovelhands View Post
              Two arrows with the same dimensions, fired from the same angle and from the same height will hit the ground at the same time, regardless of differences in weight, since you don't build up enough vertical velocity to make drag a big factor.

              However, in the horizontal direction, you have great enough velocity to factor in drag. And there's two strikes against light arrows: the first being that you start out with a lower momentum than a heavier arrow, the second is that drag is proportional to the square of velocity, meaning the drag force is much higher on something going fast.

              So in the short time of arrow flight that you have, it's mathematically possible that the lighter arrow will at some point be travelling at the same velocity as the heavier arrow (assuming they both don't hit the ground first). And it will continue to lose speed more quickly than the heavy arrow because of the difference in momentum. Now if the heavy arrows has adequate flight time, it can make up the distance between the two as the velocity gap between them widens.

              I'd do the math to show an example, but the impulse due to drag is a PITA to calculate since it's a function of velocity, and velocity is a function of drag.

              Though a simple example would be playing golf with a ping pong ball vs a golf ball. Both have nearly identical radii, and while the ping pong ball's initial velocity will be much higher when you hit it, it won't go nearly as far as the golf ball.
              I agree with everything you say as it is simple physics....all but the comparison of a ping pong ball and a golf ball with respect to archery. This does not equate in this situation.

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                #37
                Originally posted by Tom View Post
                I agree with everything you say as it is simple physics....all but the comparison of a ping pong ball and a golf ball with respect to archery. This does not equate in this situation.
                I could have used an example of any two objects of similar size, different weights, and different speeds as an example, because the equations for motion are the same regardless. It's just easier for people to grasp that even though a ping pong ball will move with a faster initial velocity, and be the same size as a golf ball, it won't go as far because of its lower momentum.

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                  #38
                  Lots of info here. Thank y’all

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by canny View Post
                    Heavy arrows with high FOC generate more momentum.........


                    Just keep in mind that the FOC has no bearing on momentum. The momentum is a function the relationship between mass and velocity, is static and cares not for FOC percentages. There are plenty of guys getting high momentum numbers simply off shaft weight, take the FMJ for and example. It can quickly run mass weight up in a hurry; however is not conducive to building above average FOC in most situations.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                      #40
                      That’s interesting!thanks for sharing

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