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    #16
    At least 4 1/2, but with no gray in the face, not older than 5 1/2

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      #17
      I'll let it go on a little while longer tomorrow. This deer was shot so I know the age (by tooth wear). FYI, he scored 144 7/8.

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        #18
        4.5

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          #19
          He will be tough

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            #20
            Ok, no more guesses so far today so here it is. This buck was post mature. His teeth showed extreme wear. When I see this I just list them at 7.5+ in our records. I had no history with this buck. He just seemed to show up out of nowhere around mid Dec. This is the reason I love hunting low fence places. He started becoming a regular at a couple of my feeders by the end of Dec. When I first started getting pics, I thought this buck was middle aged and didnt think much more about him. As I got more pics I changed my mind and realized he was an older buck and let a management hunter take him. None of us had seen the buck in person prior to the hunter seeing him and shooting him so when I told my guides I was going to let someone hunt him, they looked at me like I was crazy. They thought this was an exceptional young 8 pt buck. If you look closely at the pics you will see the backbone and hip bones of this buck. This told me he was extremely run down. You will also see the black staining from his hocks to his hooves. Again not something we see on our place until a buck is at least 5.5. The last tell tell sign I picked up on him that indicated he was an older buck was the bare spot on the front of his front knees. This is only seen in older bucks. THis was a super 8 pt that Im glad the hunter got. BTW, his H1 measurement was 5 3/8" on each side. Right above the burrs they were 6.5". This is exceptional mass for our area.

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              #21
              Thanks for posting...might as well just throw out the book on that one. I thought he looked run down and noticed that his hocks were exceptionally dark. I figured he was either extremely old or a nice young buck that participated heavily in the rut. In cases like this you almost have to observe the buck's behavior to make an accurate judgement.

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                #22
                No surprise at all. The hocks being real dark and the staining going all the way to the hoof is something hardly ever found on a buck younger than 5.5. You can't go totally by body confirmation on a post rut buck. Another clue is the very dark hair on the forehead. Small wonder why we have antler restrictions instead of age restrictions. Most hunters don't have a clue when it comes to aging on the hoof.

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                  #23
                  I would say 3.5 but surprised at how dark his hocks are.... sometimes young bucks can start early though.

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                    #24
                    Looking again I think 5.5 The fact that the camera is mounted up high is making the body look extra small.

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                      #25
                      I wouldn't have guessed 7, but the teeth usually don't lie. I watched a big deer earlier in the year that I had pegged as a 4 year old. He was shot later that month and was aged as a 7 year old. The ranch owner knew the deer, so it was a little different situation, but still this is always interesting to see a deer that doesn't show the expected signs of being an old fart.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by rtp View Post
                        Ok, no more guesses so far today so here it is. This buck was post mature. His teeth showed extreme wear. When I see this I just list them at 7.5+ in our records. I had no history with this buck. He just seemed to show up out of nowhere around mid Dec. This is the reason I love hunting low fence places. He started becoming a regular at a couple of my feeders by the end of Dec. When I first started getting pics, I thought this buck was middle aged and didnt think much more about him. As I got more pics I changed my mind and realized he was an older buck and let a management hunter take him. None of us had seen the buck in person prior to the hunter seeing him and shooting him so when I told my guides I was going to let someone hunt him, they looked at me like I was crazy. They thought this was an exceptional young 8 pt buck. If you look closely at the pics you will see the backbone and hip bones of this buck. This told me he was extremely run down. You will also see the black staining from his hocks to his hooves. Again not something we see on our place until a buck is at least 5.5. The last tell tell sign I picked up on him that indicated he was an older buck was the bare spot on the front of his front knees. This is only seen in older bucks. THis was a super 8 pt that Im glad the hunter got. BTW, his H1 measurement was 5 3/8" on each side. Right above the burrs they were 6.5". This is exceptional mass for our area.
                        Thanks for the update and breakdown. I like how you spelled it out "Reasons" style. Good lesson in learning. You judge in 4-H or FFA when you were younger?

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by perfectstorm View Post
                          Thanks for the update and breakdown. I like how you spelled it out "Reasons" style. Good lesson in learning. You judge in 4-H or FFA when you were younger?
                          LOL, no I was nowhere near the 4-H or FFA growing up. I just have always liked being in the outdoors and at 48, I have observed a lot of stuff. Im fortunate to have the opportunity to observe probably 50+ mature bucks and 100+ younger bucks per season(yearling to 3.5 yr olds) nearly every season. That has been a tremendous help.

                          I did post this because I suspected the avg answer was going to be 3.5 because of the general body appearance. I wanted to show that sometimes you have to look at other details to make an assessment of age, especially late in the season. I thought this might help some that dont get to observe as many bucks.

                          I did not mention the darker forehead because while I normally see this on mature bucks, I have seen this on some of my 4.5 yr olds so I relied more on the other characteristics in helping me make my decision. The other clue that helped me was the mass of this buck's bases. I have never, and I repeat never seen a 3.5 or 4.5 old buck with that kind of mass. On my place I can count on one hand the number of bucks taken that have had 5"+ bases and they were all very mature.

                          Thanks for playing along everyone.

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                            #28
                            I think the average answer is always 3.5 on any age this deer thread. Anyone who didn't pick up on the hocks needs to quit guessing and start studying. I hate aging by photo or video but you had some excellent pictures. The dark forehead hair is a definite clue. I wouldn't go by this alone but it is a clue as to age. You know your area better than I do but the heavy bases would not sway my thinking. I have some young deer with very heavy bases. Probably just the difference in locations.

                            Also be careful with tooth wear. Someone said the teeth don't lie. Well unfortunately they lie quite often. On my ranch a deer that I know is 7.5 was harvested and his teeth aged 5.5. I've had a lot of deer where the teeth wear and the deer's age didn't match. Cementum annuli aging is an educated guess. A lot depends on the habitat as well as the deer's diet. Different places age differently.

                            Photos don't give you a chance to see how the deer walks. This is always a good clue on an old deer. They don't have the fluid motion of a younger buck. Instead they have that old deer swagger with arthritic joints. Things you can't pick up on photo.

                            Thanks for posting the pictures.

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                              #29
                              I agree with you that different areas show different levels of tooth wear. Looking at tooth wear for a deer killed on the Kennedy is a little different than looking at a deer killed on a ranch in the hill country that feeds high levels of protein. For the most part, on any given ranch, the teeth wear will be relatively common for like aged deer. Once there is a baseline for a particular ranch, the vast majority of the deer can be aged accurately.

                              As for photos, that's absolutely true. depending on the angle of the photo, you can change the way a deer looks dramatically. Even video can play tricks on you sometimes. Seeing them in person is just the best way.

                              Judging on hock coloration I have seen different results. We have a deer that's probably 8 years old with relatively light colored hocks. Most of the 5-6 year old deer have dark hocks, but definitely not all of them.
                              Last edited by kyle1974; 02-23-2012, 04:56 PM.

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                                #30
                                Age this deer by the hocks and you'd be a bit off...
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