Keto Question

[Rack Ranch]

Excellent post, you seem well educated on the subject so I'd like your input on something. You mentioned BCCA's, I've read conflicting articles on them and the Ketogenic diet, especially concerning the insulin released following intake. I understand that they aren't broken down in the liver and go straight to the blood stream but given the release of insulin I would except a decrease in fat metabolism. As with ketosis, I would expect this decrease in fat oxidation to vary greatly per individual, but in your opinion, what would be a general rule of thumb as to timing your BCCA's intake correctly, and how many grams would you recommend?
I currently IF for a 16-18 hour window, break my fast with bone broth, and then mix up 2 scoops of whey protein isolate and head to the gym. This is usually around 1pm. I usually have my first meal about 30 minutes post workout. This is my routine 5 days a week. My goal right now is to try build muscle in ketosis with my protein intake around 130gr a day which is around .7gr per pound of body weight. I stay around 150gr of healthy fats and 25 to 30 grams of carbs. I'm 6'0 182lbs and 13% body fat at this time, Any input or suggestions would be appreciated.

I don't see any unreasonable responses or bad advice.

From a macro standpoint the 75/20/5 would work well as a rule of thumb, but there are huge variables in individuality and how the diet is formulated. I've sustained deep nutritional ketosis on high quality protein and also 90g carb/day because of the quality of the source. 1g/Lb of body weight is a lot of protein-I would say you're well within that.

I've tested blood ketone levels for the last two years. From personal experience it's difficult to overeat protein unless that's ALL your eating (like a carnivore diet that's popular). It's possible to have ketones drop below the textbook .5mmol from a protein bolus, but it's very short lived and if the results are what you are searching for the amount of BHB (keystone bodies) in your blood isn't the most important thing. I've found that BCAAs will convert more readily and drop ketone production much more quickly.






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[glen]

RR- If you are trying to put weight on eat 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight

[kumathebear]

We are not tracking as much as stated from some responses? Just cutting out the NO NO's heavy carbs has made a world of difference for my wife and I. The pounds are falling off and my morning/evening glucose levels (type 2 diabetic) have fallen DRAMATICALLY!!

We have been on Keto about 3 weeks now and have gotten over our cravings for the BAD stuff....working for us but I know, did not answer your question.

[JonW]

Excellent post, you seem well educated on the subject so I'd like your input on something. You mentioned BCCA's, I've read conflicting articles on them and the Ketogenic diet, especially concerning the insulin released following intake. I understand that they aren't broken down in the liver and go straight to the blood stream but given the release of insulin I would except a decrease in fat metabolism. As with ketosis, I would expect this decrease in fat oxidation to vary greatly per individual, but in your opinion, what would be a general rule of thumb as to timing your BCCA's intake correctly, and how many grams would you recommend?
I currently IF for a 16-18 hour window, break my fast with bone broth, and then mix up 2 scoops of whey protein isolate and head to the gym. This is usually around 1pm. I usually have my first meal about 30 minutes post workout. This is my routine 5 days a week. My goal right now is to try build muscle in ketosis with my protein intake around 130gr a day which is around .7gr per pound of body weight. I stay around 150gr of healthy fats and 25 to 30 grams of carbs. I'm 6'0 182lbs and 13% body fat at this time, Any input or suggestions would be appreciated.

Any increase in insulin is going to decrease fat oxidation, but if you're 13% bodyfat you're miles ahead of most people. The trade-off is insulin itself is catabolic and considering your goals, level of fitness, muscle mass, etc probably a very beneficial trade-off. My goals have been more health related, so I've never made muscle-building the primary goal. A couple of years ago I was using an immune-building/recovery protocol and while VERY strict/very low carb (as I've generally been the last few years). I was taking BCAAs as part of this protocol and finally figured out why ketosis was transient. I wouldn't have much experience with supplementation, but I will offer this for you to consider with regards to fasting: autophagy is VERY sensitive to any protein intake and BCAAs seem to bring it to a halt. If you get deep enough into a fast (24 hours plus) HGH will absolutely SOAR. Many are taking advantage of this and using this window post workout as well by not breaking the fast for a few hours AFTER the workout. I would assume that the BCAAs and supplemental protein are likely blunting the HGH spike along with autophagy. I'm a huge fan of individual experimentation-I think it would be worth a shot to try both ways. I bet you would get benefits from both, but may find one works better than the other.

[JonW]

I'm curious about this also. I've been on "keto" for about three weeks. I have all the keto symptoms and dropping weight really well but I don't test or count protein. All carbs are incidental to protein and veggies I eat. I know I'm usually low on fat but its working. So I'm not sure I care. One odd side affect for me is fasting is easy. I don't really get the "I'm starving" hunger I get on other diets. If I push off eating long enough I will feel a little sick and get a headache.

Hormones are working in your favor. Grehlen is suppressed while leptin is stimulated. It's awesome!

[Hillbilly Rockstar]

Hey thanks for all of the responses ya'll. I will be getting one of the apps today. A huge problem for me is eating different things. I find a combination of food that works for me to get me through the day, then I eat that same combination almost everyday. I'm not big on trying new foods.

I tried the Keto diet last year and went from 282 in May to 219 in October. I did it incorrectly...after a few weeks on Keto, my appetite went away and I went to a very low calorie diet coupled with the Keto. I saw my doctor regularly and all of my numbers stayed great the whole time. Then, the first part of October, I had a cheat day...that turned into a cheat 6 months.

[glen]

I have often thought of doing this but with the numbers they give me no way to keep my body weight up. I’m almost 50 and hard to keep the 245-250# it took me years to get. I don’t see how at .75-1 g of protein for every pound is keep the muscle mass on. I’m not a Dr but if I did that I would loose weight I want