Loud bow/Heavy arrow

[HighwayHunter]

Fairly new to archery, so without sparking a heated debate I'd like to know something.

My bow is no top of the line bow. It's a diamond infinite edge. However I am accurate with it and it shoots pretty fast at a 70# draw 31". Should I worry about shooting heavier arrows for better penetration and losing some speed? Or keep my lighter arrows and keep the speed in hopes to beat a deer who might jump the string?


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[flywise]

You don't need to worry about penetration...at all.
Speed is overrated so don't worry about that either. Just hunt and keep your shots on whitetail under 40 yds, 30 or less would be ideal

[BlackHogDown]

I've got no scientific answers other than "KE is where it's at." I went from a fast XLR8, shooting lasers, to my Halon 32-6. Same dw/dl and same arrow setup. I immediately noticed a significant lob in the trajectory of my arrow out of the Halon. I didn't like it. After I got it dialed in, I started shooting one arrow per spot on the target to avoid the unlikely chance that I "Robinhood" some arrows. FMJs are expensive! Anyways, I shot a spot on the target near the edge and the whole target spun 45 degrees. I immediately lost any worry of lack of velocity because "the energy is there." My assumption was proved correct on the first animal I shot. Clean pass through the ribs with enough energy to stick the shaft 6" into the sand behind my target. (Shooting from 15' ladder).

Again, I'm no pro and would consider myself a bowhunting novice as well. Just my personal experience.

Just for reference/context: I'm shooting 320 spine FMJ with 100gr heads. 470gr total.

[Outbreaker]

Fairly new to archery, so without sparking a heated debate I'd like to know something.

My bow is no top of the line bow. It's a diamond infinite edge. However I am accurate with it and it shoots pretty fast at a 70# draw 31". Should I worry about shooting heavier arrows for better penetration and losing some speed? Or keep my lighter arrows and keep the speed in hopes to beat a deer who might jump the string?


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Your arrow will never beat the sound there. Period. Focus on getting it quiet which means......efficient.

Energy in a bow is lost to vibration which is transmitted into sound.

A bow is more efficient with heavier (not heaviest) arrows. Think about throwing a whiffle ball vs a baseball.

A bow is more efficient when perfectly tuned.

A bow is more efficient when %FOC is right.

Now that we have transmitted the maximum amount of stored energy into the arrow we need to dissipate the rest of the energy and vibrations so they do not end up as sound.

Limbsaver started this and I still believe in their products. On the limbs, strings and accessories.

Make sure everything is tight so it also does not vibrate.

My hoyt Havoc with heavy carbons shoots quieter than most traditional gear and almost all compounds. And was still pushing the 280 fps mark.

That is my take from experience and Physics.

[Mudslinger]

I've got no scientific answers other than "KE is where it's at." I went from a fast XLR8, shooting lasers, to my Halon 32-6. Same dw/dl and same arrow setup. I immediately noticed a significant lob in the trajectory of my arrow out of the Halon. I didn't like it. After I got it dialed in, I started shooting one arrow per spot on the target to avoid the unlikely chance that I "Robinhood" some arrows. FMJs are expensive! Anyways, I shot a spot on the target near the edge and the whole target spun 45 degrees. I immediately lost any worry of lack of velocity because "the energy is there." My assumption was proved correct on the first animal I shot. Clean pass through the ribs with enough energy to stick the shaft 6" into the sand behind my target. (Shooting from 15' ladder).

Again, I'm no pro and would consider myself a bowhunting novice as well. Just my personal experience.

Just for reference/context: I'm shooting 320 spine FMJ with 100gr heads. 470gr total.

Sorry, but KE is not where it is at with bowhunting set ups. MOMENTUM is where it is at and the more momentum you have the better the penetration should be.

[CastAndBlast]

Short answer is you will never beat a deer's ability to duck an arrow. Speed is the least of my concern. With that being said, I like speed with a heavy arrow to increase KE.

Personally, I would focus more on the heavy arrow/stiffer spine than speed.

[BlackHogDown]

Sorry, but KE is not where it is at with bowhunting set ups. MOMENTUM is where it is at and the more momentum you have the better the penetration should be.

You sound like a physicist. Please enlighten us. If memory serves correctly, KE and Momentum are'NT (edit) related. Difference being that momentum is a vector... quantity AND direction. NOT being a smart A, genuinely curious from a physics standpoint... bowhunting aside.

From a shooting standpoint, KE does sound like what we're after. "The amount of energy due to motion." Again, someone correct me if i'm wrong, isn't the "moment" changing every millisecond the arrow is in flight? Why do I care about the "moment" as long as my arrow is hitting where I'm aiming? Serious Q...

[Outbreaker]

Sorry, but KE is not where it is at with bowhunting set ups. MOMENTUM is where it is at and the more momentum you have the better the penetration should be.

The 2 have very little to do with each other.

KE is the energy state of an object in motion and gives an indication of the ability to do work. This is because work is the change in energy.

Momentum is the ability of an object to resist a change in its current inertia state (direction and speed of movement).

While for non physics people this may not seem like a big deal it is a huge difference.

[ACCURACYINC]

[QUOTE=HighwayHunter;13114590]Fairly new to archery, so without sparking a heated debate I'd like to know something.

Well so much for that!

[dustoffer]

Sorry, but KE is not where it is at with bowhunting set ups. MOMENTUM is where it is at and the more momentum you have the better the penetration should be.

Ding, ding, ding!!! Winner. And as outbreaker posted, your arrow will never be as fast as the speed of sound, which is about 1100 fps at sea level.

The three most important things to a bowhunter IMO are 1. Hunt the wind, 2. Tune your bow 3. Perfect practice (not just slinging arrows).

[HighwayHunter]

[quote=ACCURACYINC;13114690]

Fairly new to archery, so without sparking a heated debate I'd like to know something.



Well so much for that!

Yeah that didn't work out[emoji23] I do enjoy reading this though. For a guy like me I'm having to look stuff up to just keep up with these convos lol


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[gmac]

A bow and arrow will never match the KE of a 22. Momentum is a better measurement for bow hunting. Heavy arrow will equal better penetration and a more efficient , quieter bow. Not saying you have to go crazy with the weight.

[ACCURACYINC]

Well I'm not the brightest when it comes to KE, speed, etc. I am definitely on board with keeping your shot distance to a minimum regardless of the bow you shoot. I practice out to 50 yards, but rarely make a shot over 25. Deer are very keen animals, and in the interest of making the most ethical shot possible, I choose to take the shortest shot I can every time I can.

[BlackHogDown]

Well I'm not the brightest when it comes to KE, speed, etc. I am definitely on board with keeping your shot distance to a minimum regardless of the bow you shoot. I practice out to 50 yards, but rarely make a shot over 25. Deer are very keen animals, and in the interest of making the most ethical shot possible, I choose to take the shortest shot I can every time I can.

I wish some of my buddies had the same mindset when I invite them out!

[Outbreaker]

Well I'm not the brightest when it comes to KE, speed, etc. I am definitely on board with keeping your shot distance to a minimum regardless of the bow you shoot. I practice out to 50 yards, but rarely make a shot over 25. Deer are very keen animals, and in the interest of making the most ethical shot possible, I choose to take the shortest shot I can every time I can.

This is important. I have never shot at a deer or pig over 18yds.

I have shot many rabbits, jackrabbits, pack rats, and armadillos out to 60yds.

Before my elbow injury I would practice until I could place 10/10 inside a pie plate at 80yds in the open air.