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    #16
    Originally posted by dustoffer View Post
    The quality of the bucks here in Guadalupe County has gone up substantially on the place I hunt since ARs were enacted. What used to be a parade of spikes and little cabbage racks is no more--
    same in Gonzales county, and feeding year round doesn't hurt either.

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      #17
      In my area, buck quality has declined since AR took over. That and surrounding pressure puts too much emphasis on the 13"+ class. I think 95% of those deer get shot around me. I think our situation is unique and I'm overall in favor of the rule, just not in my area of the county. It is what I consider broken cover and the deer sooner or later have to become visible moving from cover to cover. It's like running the gauntlet. We have lots of sub 13" poor genetic animals that we cannot harvest. It's very frustrating.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Bucksaw View Post
        AR laws have definitely helped in my area. I am seeing much bigger deer than I ever have in my entire 33 years. Just in the last 5 years or so the quality of deer that would be considered "a decent buck" is way more than it was. I have the proof hanging on my wall. Granted, I don't have anything huge in my living room, but considering that 5 yeas ago harvesting a 13" deer on my 160 acre lease was a feat, and now I am getting to pick which one I am going after.

        That being said, I don't think that AR laws are a perfect solution. As long as there is a rule, there is someone upset because it adversely affects them. I wish there was a legal way to harvest those older bucks that are never gonna reach 13", without having to be on MLD land. Its tough for someone on a small private lease, or like your case on public land, to be able to manage the way you need to for MLD requirements, so its impossible to take out those old culls. All you can do is hope that either the neighbor has less moral character than I do or hope he gets whacked by a car or something. Otherwise, his genetics will continue to circulate.
        I was told while in Sonora this weekend by a lontime wildlife biologist that when the AR was first introduced to to Texas that there were 3 restriction options that were proposed. 1) 13" inside spread 2) an unbranched antler 3)If the deer had at least 8pts then the 13" rule did not apply; but he said for some reason Texas chose not to add the 3rd option to the regs. I dont know how true that is, but the guy has been a wildlife biologist for 25+ years and a guide for the last 10+ so he really seemed to know his stuff. Anyone ever heard this or something similar?

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          #19
          Originally posted by TeamChampion12 View Post
          I was told while in Sonora this weekend by a lontime wildlife biologist that when the AR was first introduced to to Texas that there were 3 restriction options that were proposed. 1) 13" inside spread 2) an unbranched antler 3)If the deer had at least 8pts then the 13" rule did not apply; but he said for some reason Texas chose not to add the 3rd option to the regs. I dont know how true that is, but the guy has been a wildlife biologist for 25+ years and a guide for the last 10+ so he really seemed to know his stuff. Anyone ever heard this or something similar?
          The 3rd rule you mention would have defeated the purpose of the first two. Th

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            #20
            Originally posted by MagicBlade View Post

            Is it to improve quantity or quality of the deer herd?
            both.. and it works

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              #21
              Originally posted by Traxx View Post
              Well, I am a meat hunter and will take a doe or spike any day over a wore out old azz buck. Even better if I can kill it out of rut. To me a 2/3 year old is prime. Old enough to have some weight but young enough for eating.
              doe populations are sky high in all parts of Texas. If it's meat you are after there is no case you can make to take a buck. Many counties allow 5 doe per year and even have late extended doe seasons.

              in other words you can argue all day that you do it for the meat, but that doesn't hold up against AR restrictions or letting bucks walk for the good of the herd.

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                #22
                Originally posted by Sleepy View Post
                100% agree in the two counties I hunt. Not only am I seeing older bucks, but I’m seeing more bucks. AR was a saving grace for people who want to kill older deer and not just the first thing that walks out.
                We are seeing the same results here in Walker/Grimes County. When i first started hunting out here, we were lucky to see one shooter a year back in 2011. Every year since has been better and better.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by DeadEyeB View Post
                  doe populations are sky high in all parts of Texas. If it's meat you are after there is no case you can make to take a buck. Many counties allow 5 doe per year and even have late extended doe seasons.

                  in other words you can argue all day that you do it for the meat, but that doesn't hold up against AR restrictions or letting bucks walk for the good of the herd.
                  So funny
                  You're right I have not one argument, I will harvest as I see fit.
                  In Navarro county I get 2 antler less 1 spike and one 13+. So tell me again about all the meat I can get.
                  Since I hunt my small property only, I limit myself to 2 deer per season. If I don't think there are enough doe then I will leave them alone and the young bucks will take the slack. I try to keep a 1 to 1 ratio of doe to buck as per QDMA.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by dustoffer View Post
                    The quality of the bucks here in Guadalupe County has gone up substantially on the place I hunt since ARs were enacted. What used to be a parade of spikes and little cabbage racks is no more--
                    Originally posted by Rwc View Post
                    Same in McLennan and Bosque on the grounds I have.

                    Rwc
                    Ditto in all the counties I hunt... all AR now.
                    Last edited by bossbowman; 12-01-2017, 09:47 AM.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by MagicBlade View Post
                      Most of the bucks on our lease are under 13" even older bucks.
                      Although a lot are young, the question came up this last week as to what is the purpose of the Antler Restriction rule.

                      Is it to improve quantity or quality of the deer herd?

                      If an older deer is under 13" and continues to breed, won't the genetics continue to be under 13"??????
                      I'm guessing these bucks you think are older really aren't. Its to improve the age structure and buck doe ratio and from what I've seen its working, big racks are just an occassional by product because deer get a chance to get some age on them. The genetics changing is just not going to happen low fence, remember does carry half the genetics too

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by TeamChampion12 View Post
                        I was told while in Sonora this weekend by a lontime wildlife biologist that when the AR was first introduced to to Texas that there were 3 restriction options that were proposed. 1) 13" inside spread 2) an unbranched antler 3)If the deer had at least 8pts then the 13" rule did not apply; but he said for some reason Texas chose not to add the 3rd option to the regs. I dont know how true that is, but the guy has been a wildlife biologist for 25+ years and a guide for the last 10+ so he really seemed to know his stuff. Anyone ever heard this or something similar?
                        Rule #3 was if the deer had at least 6 points on one antler the 13" rule did not apply and this was a criteria in the first 6 experimental counties that had the rule from 2002-2004

                        The Experiment6 Counties With the Antler-Restriction Regulation

                        Landowners and hunters in Austin, Colorado, Fayette, Lavaca, Lee, and Washington counties requested a hunting regulation that would offer more protection to immature bucks. As is the case in many of the 147 one-buck counties in Texas, hunting pressure on bucks was extremely high in this particular area, and very few bucks were allowed to reach maturity. Poor age structure within a buck herd has many adverse effects, including poor hunter satisfaction. Research results indicate that poor age structure among bucks results in longer breeding seasons, and therefore, longer fawning seasons - which is a factor contributing to poor fawn production.

                        In response to an overwhelming request for a change, the TPW Commission adopted an experimental antler-restriction regulation in 2002 which read as follows:

                        A legal buck deer is defined as having a hardened antler protruding through the skin AND:
                        At least one unbranched antler; or
                        An inside spread measurement between main beams of 13 inches or greater; or
                        Six points or more on one antler.


                        later explanation of why the 3rd criterion was removed from reguation

                        the criterion for 6 points on an antler was removed in an effort to simplify the regulation. Three years of harvest data indicate that less than 2% of all bucks harvested were legal based on that criterion alone (see table below). In other words, most bucks with 6 points on one antler also have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater. There was no biological reason for maintaining that as a criterion for a legal buck;
                        Last edited by bossbowman; 12-01-2017, 10:12 AM.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by tbgascorer View Post
                          In my area, buck quality has declined since AR took over. That and surrounding pressure puts too much emphasis on the 13"+ class. I think 95% of those deer get shot around me. I think our situation is unique and I'm overall in favor of the rule, just not in my area of the county. It is what I consider broken cover and the deer sooner or later have to become visible moving from cover to cover. It's like running the gauntlet. We have lots of sub 13" poor genetic animals that we cannot harvest. It's very frustrating.
                          You hit the nail on the head. Ive seen a bad decline in quality as well. To many hunters in our area taking young studs and letting older inferior deer walk. Im not specifically talking about deer less than 13" but only having 1 tag for a deer wider than 13. Why would anyone want to shoot a 5 year old 6 point thats 15 wide before the rut when they pay big money to hunt. This rule forces people to pick between the 2. All that I see being killed now are very nice framed deer instead of the old ugly racks. In other words the good looking deer are being slaughtered and the inferior deer are all getting passes.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by RutnBuk View Post
                            You hit the nail on the head. Ive seen a bad decline in quality as well. To many hunters in our area taking young studs and letting older inferior deer walk. Im not specifically talking about deer less than 13" but only having 1 tag for a deer wider than 13. Why would anyone want to shoot a 5 year old 6 point thats 15 wide before the rut when they pay big money to hunt. This rule forces people to pick between the 2. All that I see being killed now are very nice framed deer instead of the old ugly racks. In other words the good looking deer are being slaughtered and the inferior deer are all getting passes.
                            But wouldn’t most people wait to kill the big mainframe deer anyways. How does antler restrictions effect that. If there were no AR, how would that help.

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                              #29
                              In a low fence environment it doesn't matter, the point is to get some age on bucks. Plus does carry half the genetics and whether she carries big buck genetics or not you'll never know...
                              Last edited by bossbowman; 12-01-2017, 10:31 AM.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by BULL21 View Post
                                But wouldn’t most people wait to kill the big mainframe deer anyways. How does antler restrictions effect that. If there were no AR, how would that help.
                                If I read it right, since only 1 13+ is allowed then why waste it on a older buck with a ugly rack. If more than 1 13+ is allowed then the older buck can be culled.

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