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-   -   Efoc vs foc test (http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=575733)

enewman 02-02-2016 06:49 PM

Efoc vs foc test
 
Built two arrows. Blackeagle Carnivors 300 spine. Ctc 24 3/8. With 2 in vanes

Arrow (A). Has a total weight of 521.4 with foc of 27.27
Arrow (B) has total weight of 522.2. With weight tube. Foc of 9.85

This is as close as I can get with arrows. I cannot control dynamic flex. I also do not know how much of a factor that is.

Both arrows shot from an apa m5 at 26.6 draw at 66 lbs. all shots where with hooter shooter

Arrows shot from 20 yards to 60 yards. Arrow (A) was high at 20 by around 1.5 inches. By 60 yards the arrow (A) was an averge of 5 inches. All groups where shot 3 times.

I could see a little wiggle in arrow (B) in flight. Arrow (A) looked like a dart. I'm sure this may have caused some flaws. But either way an arrow with same weight or close with higher foc did not nose dive.

SAVIOUR68 02-02-2016 07:12 PM

So at what yardage were these arrows zeroed at ?
I would have a hard time believing that the arrow with EFOC would impact higher at any point IF they were zeroed at a specific yardage [20 yards/set control] , the 1.5in @ 20 yards would equal near 4.5 inch at 60 yards which you stated 5inch could be due to this [no set control or zeroing] .
Here's a test for you take the vanes off of both arrows and shoot them bareshaft at 20 yards.

enewman 02-02-2016 07:19 PM

I guess I need to test at 10 yards and see where the zero is. I didn't think of that. I was surprised it was differnt at 20.

SAVIOUR68 02-02-2016 07:27 PM

One other thing is did you paper tune or tune either set up, the reason I ask is I would bet that nock position will vary from one shaft to the other and the EFOC shaft may be bouncing up off the rest due to shaft deflection upon release.
You would almost have to tune both shafts separately and only shoot one one given arrow A or B at a time at 20-60 yards and measure impacts and impact spreads and then tune the other shaft and re-shoot 20-60. Hope this makes sense.
Good luck and keep us posted.

enewman 02-02-2016 07:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Yes it does. And in my original post I stated there was a few things I could not control. And flex was one of them. they did zero out at 25 ft


And the left is the efoc arrow right is the other. This was at 5 ft.

enewman 02-02-2016 09:01 PM

Saviour68

What else am I missing. Going to try with bare shaft tomorrow. Out come is not what I thought it would be.

SAVIOUR68 02-03-2016 07:14 AM

ENEWMAN, too me it looks like the picture of the paper tune shows that the EFOC arrow has a slight nock low tear which would explain what we are seeing.
Even though you may have the spline close from your calculator you know how much a little difference would do impacts.
And you are correct that shaft flex my be the culprit and causing bounce off the rest launcher arm, EFOC arrow has 200gr more load of the front causing this, more resting weight on launch arm resisting movement.
Shoot the bareshafts and see what happens.
I never tried a EFOC arrow on my compound but all my traditional bows are set up with EFOC and when bareshafting they try to nose dive but then again I have a higher nock point set due to finger release.

enewman 02-03-2016 08:04 AM

Going to try it bare shaft at lunch if I have time. I'll see if I can get a hole in the paper.

old killer 02-03-2016 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enewman (Post 11043269)
Yes it does. And in my original post I stated there was a few things I could not control. And flex was one of them. they did zero out at 25 ft


And the left is the efoc arrow right is the other. This was at 5 ft.

To get the best results out of paper tuning you need to be around 5 or 6 steps from the paper. The goal is to shoot from the distance at which the shaft is it's farthest out of line.

enewman 02-03-2016 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old killer (Post 11044861)
To get the best results out of paper tuning you need to be around 5 or 6 steps from the paper. The goal is to shoot from the distance at which the shaft is it's farthest out of line.

What are you calling steps. Trying to put marks on the concrete so I can make sure I'm in same spot everytime.

Eric

SAVIOUR68 02-03-2016 01:37 PM

I would think that bareshaft through paper at a couple different yardages will show better results ;)b

enewman 02-03-2016 02:01 PM

Ok. Got to look at a different way to test. The weight tube is causing problems. Cannot get a left tear out of it bare shaft. Remove the tube and it gets better. So I got to find another arrow.

But. Even with lean the bare shafts are level at 20 yards now

SAVIOUR68 02-03-2016 04:27 PM

I think that its going to be very hard to get a side by side comparison but what your doing is close.
We played around with this a year or so ago but with only a extra 50-60grs up front and noticed very little change until after 60 yards and we shot all the way to 100 yards.
The arrow with extra weight in the front did slightly impact lower at longer yardages which changed the sight tape on a Spot Hogg to the next bigger tape. I believe we had them tuned to within 2fps and 5-8 grs total shaft weight.
These were not EFOC arrows as you are testing .
I suspect that at longer ranges the EFOC will start to show a drop too and thats not necessarily saying nose diving.
;)b

Pushbutton2 02-03-2016 04:33 PM

Are the weight tubes moving inside the shafts?
Did/do you need to nock tune first?

old killer 02-04-2016 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enewman (Post 11044926)
What are you calling steps. Trying to put marks on the concrete so I can make sure I'm in same spot everytime.

Eric

5 or 6 steps=15 to 18 feet. Each bow and archer are different and the distance at which an out of tune shaft will show the largest tear will be different. Paper tuning adjustments should only be made when you have found that distance.

enewman 02-04-2016 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old killer (Post 11049404)
5 or 6 steps=15 to 18 feet. Each bow and archer are different and the distance at which an out of tune shaft will show the largest tear will be different. Paper tuning adjustments should only be made when you have found that distance.

Haha. I figured steps was 3 ft. Either way test fail. Back to the drawing board. May try some testing this weekend

Pushbutton2 02-04-2016 05:45 PM

If you was to use 3 sheets 6' apart to paper tune. Would that be useful?

bowhuntntxn 02-04-2016 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 (Post 11049950)
If you was to use 3 sheets 6' apart to paper tune. Would that be useful?

No. Unless of course you wanted to see how long it takes your arrow to recover from the initial flex when shot. Each sheet should have an opposite reading, and less of a tear further down range.

old killer 02-05-2016 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 (Post 11049950)
If you was to use 3 sheets 6' apart to paper tune. Would that be useful?

It would show you the distance the shaft was the farthest out of line.
that is the distance you want to check paper tune. You can accomplish the same thing by shooting through the paper at different distances.


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