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-   -   Paper Vs. bare shaft tuning. (https://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=686989)

Stoof 03-24-2018 01:11 PM

Paper Vs. bare shaft tuning.
 
Where do you draw the line. Iíve got two different arrows making decent holes in paper. Bare shafts with both kick right. Keep tweaking or run with it? And where should I make changes to get the bare shafts lining up and nice holes in paper?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ef90f949b9.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...26d7e95ce7.jpg


-------------------------------
Violence never settles anything
-Genghis Kahn

huntinfool 03-24-2018 03:58 PM

I need to learn this too, so I'm in to learn.

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enewman 03-24-2018 06:18 PM

bare shaft is the best. but not all people can bareshaft tune. form is critical with bare shaft.

on the paper tune shots how far where you from paper

muddyfuzzy 03-24-2018 06:18 PM

Itís a pretty polarizing topic but I personally prefer bare shafting myself. I have found; 100% of the time, if you get a bare shaft flying with a fletched arrow at a minimum of 20 yds with the same entry that you can put any broadhead you want on and roll with it pretty much. A lot of folks get similar results shooting through paper, I just feel the completely uncorrected shaft is a little more telling.... at least for me.

Both are elevated tuning techniques and things like facial pressure and a torque free/neutral grip must be mastered first before diving into either. Otherwise, false readings will immediately ensue.


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enewman 03-24-2018 06:29 PM

your paper tune is still off

Stoof 03-24-2018 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enewman (Post 13271567)
your paper tune is still off



Slightly but Iím making headway. The FMJ is hitting better than the Victory. Shooting paper at about 7 yds.


-------------------------------
Violence never settles anything
-Genghis Kahn

Mudslinger 03-24-2018 08:20 PM

You cannot go by the way an arrow ends up in a foam target. In the pic you seem to say that the shaft on the left kicks nock right, but foam targets like the one in the pic will give you false readings almost everytime.

Low Fence 03-25-2018 10:30 AM

Correct on mudslinger and enewman post.

If your paper ain’t perfect there’s no need to even try bare shaft. (I find it no need to begin with).... but I guess there’s more than 1 way to skin a cat. Some just take a long approach to getting the same result.

Stoof 03-25-2018 11:45 AM

Getting my arrows to hit well through paper is making more and more sense. I am at the point that minor movements could improve the holes. I also understand that bare shaft tuning is important. The way the bare shafts are hitting in the foam target are consistent. I have also seen the same result with the bare shaft out at Rat's house when we went through cam timing, peep and nock.
I also understand that bare shafts will show form issues. I am no Olympic archer but my form is above average.
So where to start with bare shafts? I have gotten them to hit parallel with the fletched but the rest movements needed run my site out of left adjustment and screws up the paper tune.
I can always head back out to Rat's casa to work out these issues but I like to tinker and try to figure this stuff out on my own.

enewman 03-25-2018 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoof (Post 13272730)
Getting my arrows to hit well through paper is making more and more sense. I am at the point that minor movements could improve the holes. I also understand that bare shaft tuning is important. The way the bare shafts are hitting in the foam target are consistent. I have also seen the same result with the bare shaft out at Rat's house when we went through cam timing, peep and nock.
I also understand that bare shafts will show form issues. I am no Olympic archer but my form is above average.
So where to start with bare shafts? I have gotten them to hit parallel with the fletched but the rest movements needed run my site out of left adjustment and screws up the paper tune.
I can always head back out to Rat's casa to work out these issues but I like to tinker and try to figure this stuff out on my own.

there are things that needs to be done before bareshaft tuning. if all your shafts are bare then you need to shoot all of them around 10 ft through paper look at the tears of each one. rotate the nocks till all have the same tear and reaction. this is important or you can chase your tail.

then set up your bow and start tuning. now this is not how i tune but it is an easy way of doing it

Rat 03-26-2018 09:57 AM

You are literally chasing your tail.
You need to get back on your feet (literally) before you get to this level of tuning; I am willing to bet that you can't be consistent enough from shot to shot with a broken leg to make any headway in tuning right now, not at this level anyway.

Once you can get the stance right we will be able to yoke tune that bow to the Nth degree. This will bring everything into alignment and will show good bareshaft and good paper.

You need to heal Brutha, then we can get you where you need to be.

Outbreaker 03-26-2018 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enewman (Post 13271567)
your paper tune is still off

Get your paper PERFECT before you do anything else.

When bare shaft tuning your target needs to be of uniform density, and no "tracks" from other arrows for it to follow. I prefer sand for this.

Traildust 03-26-2018 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enewman (Post 13273262)
there are things that needs to be done before bareshaft tuning. if all your shafts are bare then you need to shoot all of them around 10 ft through paper look at the tears of each one. rotate the nocks till all have the same tear and reaction. this is important or you can chase your tail.

then set up your bow and start tuning. now this is not how i tune but it is an easy way of doing it

Why 10ft? Why not 3', 5', 7', 9', 11' or 16.5'? :confused:

Also, when you're done bare shaft tuning, fletch your arrows and screw on a broad head and go hunt. No further adjustments necessary?

Traildust 03-26-2018 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outbreaker (Post 13274574)
Get your paper PERFECT before you do anything else.

When bare shaft tuning your target needs to be of uniform density, and no "tracks" from other arrows for it to follow. I prefer sand for this.

At what distance/distances should one achieve this perfect paper tear?

Stoof 03-26-2018 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat (Post 13274538)
You are literally chasing your tail.
You need to get back on your feet (literally) before you get to this level of tuning; I am willing to bet that you can't be consistent enough from shot to shot with a broken leg to make any headway in tuning right now, not at this level anyway.

Once you can get the stance right we will be able to yoke tune that bow to the Nth degree. This will bring everything into alignment and will show good bareshaft and good paper.

You need to heal Brutha, then we can get you where you need to be.

I hear ya man. I can finally put equal pressure on both legs again and walk without the crutches. But the boredom the injury creates makes more time to tinker. Maybe I should stick to fletching arrows and practice for now.
I will be back out soon.

Traildust 03-26-2018 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoof (Post 13271128)
Where do you draw the line. I’ve got two different arrows making decent holes in paper. Bare shafts with both kick right. Keep tweaking or run with it? And where should I make changes to get the bare shafts lining up and nice holes in paper?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ef90f949b9.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...26d7e95ce7.jpg


-------------------------------
Violence never settles anything
-Genghis Kahn

Get your finished arrows and hobble back tune to 70-80 yards. Paper is for wiping your arse!:D You shoot consistent groups at that distance, you're golden.


Just saw you had an injury.

Outbreaker 03-26-2018 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traildust (Post 13275000)
At what distance/distances should one achieve this perfect paper tear?

I paper tune at about 3 yds (target at 10). Then I bare shaft at 10yds then I broadhead tune at 20yds,

enewman 03-26-2018 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traildust (Post 13274966)
Why 10ft? Why not 3', 5', 7', 9', 11' or 16.5'? :confused:

Also, when you're done bare shaft tuning, fletch your arrows and screw on a broad head and go hunt. No further adjustments necessary?

This is nock tuning. Itís done before tuning is done. You need all arrows to match dynamic reaction before starting. I do this around 10 ft. In reality you can do this from 3 to 10 ft it dosent mater. And itís done at one distance.

Remember we are nock tuning. Nothing else.

enewman 03-26-2018 01:37 PM

Traildust. I see this all the time. People trying to bareshaft tune and there all over the place. They just cannot get it.

So I ask are you shooting .006 shafts. If answer is yes then you must nock tune first.

If .003. Then we got to look at them. Because a .003 is a t.i.r. of .006. This arrow still needs nock tuning. So it may not be a must but I recommend it.

.001 arrows most of time no, but then it comes back to how round are the arrows. If they are shaped like an egg or elliptical then they to need nock tuning

For my builds this is what I recommend. For most people that are happy with 3 inch groups at 20 yards then it’s prolly a waist. But if you want 1 inch groups that are repeatable. Then it’s worth it.

You could just buy good arrows haha and not worry

DRT 03-26-2018 02:01 PM

I always bareshaft when I paper tune.

Briar Friar 03-30-2018 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enewman (Post 13275196)
Traildust. I see this all the time. People trying to bareshaft tune and there all over the place. They just cannot get it.

So I ask are you shooting .006 shafts. If answer is yes then you must nock tune first.

If .003. Then we got to look at them. Because a .003 is a t.i.r. of .006. This arrow still needs nock tuning. So it may not be a must but I recommend it.

.001 arrows most of time no, but then it comes back to how round are the arrows. If they are shaped like an egg or elliptical then they to need nock tuning

For my builds this is what I recommend. For most people that are happy with 3 inch groups at 20 yards then itís prolly a waist. But if you want 1 inch groups that are repeatable. Then itís worth it.

You could just buy good arrows haha and not worry

Awesome! Awesome! Awesome!

Ive been able to bareshaft and group...fletched and bareshaft to 20yds on my recurve but have crap paper tears...due to contact.

I corrected my contact but varying horizontal tears make me think I need to nock tune the .005 Aftermaths Im using.

trophy_seeker 04-26-2018 07:51 PM

Tag

enewman 05-02-2018 07:38 AM

stoof

how is it all coming

Rat 05-03-2018 10:23 AM

I've been experimenting with a new-to-me method; I'm sure it's been done before I've just never seen it.

Since most people don't have a pristine target for bareshaft tuning I came up with another method.

Bareshaft paper tuning.

I took enewman's advice and nock tuned through paper, with bareshafts, to get all the arrows making the same tear.

Then I tuned the bow to get a perfect bullet hole with bareshafts. It doesn't matter how the arrow ends up in the target, the paper reveals the flight characteristics of the arrow. As the arrow is bare, there is no correction to wonder about. IOW, it doesn't matter if you are 7 feet or 20 yards, the paper will be the same tear. If I had a right tear at 7 feet I also had a right tear at 10 yards; it was a longer tear, but it was still right.

This is not what you see in paper tuning with fletching many times. You may have a right tear at 7 feet but a bullet hole at 10 yards. Bareshafting through paper does not do this.

I need to play with this more to see if the results are consistent, but so far I like it.

Like I said, I'm not sure if it is new or not, but it is new to me.

Stoof 05-03-2018 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enewman (Post 13349284)
stoof

how is it all coming

I still got to get out to Rats house for some yoke tuning. It is visibly out of whack when I draw the bow. Until this is fixed I'm spinning my wheels.

enewman 05-03-2018 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat (Post 13352207)
I've been experimenting with a new-to-me method; I'm sure it's been done before I've just never seen it.

Since most people don't have a pristine target for bareshaft tuning I came up with another method.

Bareshaft paper tuning.

I took enewman's advice and nock tuned through paper, with bareshafts, to get all the arrows making the same tear.

Then I tuned the bow to get a perfect bullet hole with bareshafts. It doesn't matter how the arrow ends up in the target, the paper reveals the flight characteristics of the arrow. As the arrow is bare, there is no correction to wonder about. IOW, it doesn't matter if you are 7 feet or 20 yards, the paper will be the same tear. If I had a right tear at 7 feet I also had a right tear at 10 yards; it was a longer tear, but it was still right.

This is not what you see in paper tuning with fletching many times. You may have a right tear at 7 feet but a bullet hole at 10 yards. Bareshafting through paper does not do this.

I need to play with this more to see if the results are consistent, but so far I like it.

Like I said, I'm not sure if it is new or not, but it is new to me.

to me this is the best way.

arateses 05-10-2018 02:13 AM

I always paper tune my bow whenever I change arrows/point weight and sometimes just check it through paper to make sure it is tune. Why do I use this system?? Because I know it works. Ideally, the best way to be absolutely sure your bow is perfectly tuned is to shoot a bare shaft through paper (a shaft identical to your arrows, just minus flights). Assuming your arrows are matched well to your bow (as if they're not, they can cause more issues than help when trying to tune your bow), move your rest/nocking point (whichever needs moving) appropriately to get a bullet hole (with a bare shaft). Then shoot an arrow through it and you should see the same result. Do this from about 4m away. If you stand too far back (ie...10-15m+), the arrow vanes/feathers start taking control and 'correcting' the arrow flight anyway so you don't get a true idea.

On a seperate note, great post to put up here. It is of paramount importance to have your bow perfectly tuned to get the best penetration you can get out of it when it comes to shooting animals (particularly large ones). Also, a poorly tuned bow will perform poorly for target shooting as well. It is amazing how much an arrow flexes in flight and the last thing you need is for it to be flying wonky cause of a poor match (arrow spine for your poundage and drawlength) or ill tuned bow. Not only that, but a well tuned bow is a lot safer than a poorly tuned one.


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