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Old 03-02-2007, 10:17 AM   #1
howie1968
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Default Bowhunters unite to abolish 40 lb draw weight

friends how many of yall have daughters sons wives grandmas or grandpas that cannot pull the state mandated 40 lbs?? I and my little 11 yr old daughter jasmine are affected by this while hog hunting last year she could have shot a 130 class buck during archery season but since her bow was not 40 lbs or legal I asked her not to attempt to shoot the nice buck. it broke my heart til tell my little girl she couldnt shoot the buck. i know for a fact she would have blown right through the buck resilting in a quick humane end. My merits or this i have seen my daughter shoot through big hogs with her parker 34 lb bow with a good sharp broadhead. Im tired of my daughter being left behind only to watch me shoot a big buck. How many of yall does this affect??? im sure alot of you. As a hunting guide i have personally guided at least 10 youth to there first hogs all using modern comound bows with draw weifht in the 25-35 lb range ive seen several woman in the 36 lb range blow through 260 lb boars. A 250lb hog is a whole different animal then a a 100lb texas deer. that is no more than 8 inches wide. i believe what im asking us to do is not unresanonable im open for discussion


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Old 03-02-2007, 10:25 AM   #2
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so where do you want them to draw the line? 36#
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:28 AM   #3
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Personally I'd like to see it based on kinetic energy opposed to draw weight.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:33 AM   #4
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What Cotton said.

Draw weight doesn't mean a thing to the animal getting hit. It is the Kinetic energy.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:33 AM   #5
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I agree Cotton but checking KE in the field would be tough for a game warden.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudshack View Post
What Cotton said.

Draw weight doesn't mean a thing to the animal getting hit. It is the Kinetic energy.

Ditto on what both said.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:35 AM   #7
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Cull....if he can check draw weight, read the labels on the arrow, messure the shaft and know the BH weight, he can get pretty darn close with a calculator.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:35 AM   #8
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That is open for discussion, i also believe knetic energy isimportant a good sharp broadhead does wonders. ive been doing some experiments try this take a good sharp muzzy magnus swuckey etc put the head on a hogs shoulder and press you wil;l be amzed at how easily it penetrates. modern bows are incredibly efficent like i said alot of you have sons and daughters who cannot pull 40 lbs by the time most kids are able to pull 40 lbs they are hooked on cell phones video games etc. we have to get our youth our woman and our elderly involved in this great sport, im sure most of you would agree. i dont worry about my daughters as they are hunting next to me my oldest @ 15 can now pull 40 i dont want to have to wait 2 mores to see kasmine drill a deer now any other child who loves to bowhunt once again thanks for discussing this matter
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Personally I'd like to see it based on kinetic energy opposed to draw weight.
EXACTLY COTTON!

I would put money that the Elite Ice @ 29lbs would create enough KE to down a deer!
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:38 AM   #10
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Have KE calculated and certified with a sticker on the bow.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:41 AM   #11
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thanks guys i can tell yall are serious bowhunters and understand the kinetic energy prinicple i know what my daughters parker buckshot bow will do!!!!! and ive hears tories of the ice maybe jasmines next bow
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:43 AM   #12
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Mudshack,
He/she would also need an arrow scale. Not all arrows have the gpi on them.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:48 AM   #13
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Easy fix.

Just have the wives/kids shoot a crossbow.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
I agree Cotton but checking KE in the field would be tough for a game warden.
Quote:
He/she would also need an arrow scale. Not all arrows have the gpi on them.
Quote:
Have KE calculated and certified with a sticker on the bow.
Quote:
Easy fix.

Just have the wives/kids shoot a crossbow.
Thanks for saying it someone needed to.

All of these things are why KE wont work. it will have to be a weight requirement. People will not know how to measure this. I dont and dont care.
It will have to be moved to a 35# weight ro something similar. If you are pulling 80% letoff on 40# you are only holding 8#'s.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:49 AM   #15
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Or they could carry a calibrated target, set at a calibrated distance, and have the "said hunter" shoot the target.

This would prove more than just the capability of the bow.

If mythbusters can create a gel that is equivilant to a human body, I am sure someone can create a target block for GW's to keep in their trucks.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:53 AM   #16
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I thiught the draw weight had to 40 lbs to hunt, from rabbits to deer? Many people are saying they shoot hogs with less than 40 lbs. This is not an attack!
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:54 AM   #17
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oktx....hogs are not a "game" animal. The "taking" of hogs is not regulated.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:57 AM   #18
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Ok, I understand. Thanks.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:58 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cull View Post
I agree Cotton but checking KE in the field would be tough for a game warden.
Easy enough:

Attachment 14128

Attachment 14129
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:03 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesquitecountry View Post
Thanks for saying it someone needed to.

All of these things are why KE wont work. it will have to be a weight requirement. People will not know how to measure this. I dont and dont care.
It will have to be moved to a 35# weight ro something similar. If you are pulling 80% letoff on 40# you are only holding 8#'s.
The problem with a set poundage is that a 30# compound can easily produce enough KE to kill a deer while a 30# longbow may not.

When we talked about this awhile ago I took my wife's bow at 34#s and my recurve at 55#s and they were both getting around 32#s of KE.

Besides in the beginning it was based on how far a bow could shoot an arrow which was a measurement of a bow’s energy.

Last edited by Cotton; 03-02-2007 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:11 AM   #21
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Think aboutnthe youth who is missing out on hunting deer with a bow we can talk figures all day long but if i can push an arrow through a hog and im weak what can a modern bow do?? if youve ever shot a hog they are a whole lot tougher to bring down then a texas sized whitail, in Colorado the minum is 35 lb and im sure there animals are larger than our little texas whiteail
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:14 AM   #22
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I feel very strongly ... both ways!

If you read through some of the past posts on here, you'll see that there are a bunch of members that have kids that shoot and hunt. I'm sure 40# wasn't something that TPWD pulled out of their rears. 40#'s is a milestone to most youths on here ... it's almost like these kids getting their licenses! I don't remember who it was, but his kid set up HIS OWN workout to build himself up to 40#!

Get her to shoot more, I bet she could be up to 40# by deer season!
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:20 AM   #23
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she shoots every day and has won 3 3-D tounaments so far the kid can shoot, my deal is she missed out last year times are changing most of us used to shoot 70-80 now most of us 60-65 the need for draw weights are changing as the efficiency gets better
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:20 AM   #24
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none of this really matters because unfortunately what we say wont matter to this rich politcian $^*holes
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:24 AM   #25
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I'm all for it - getting rid of a law that doesn't make sense, that is

Kinetic energy is really the quantity that we want to be measuring -

I would rather have a relaxed person shooting a 35# bow than someone who is straining to pull 40 pounds.

We have all types of laws that require officers to carry equipment - think about window tint, think about speed limits, think about how little would get done without access to a two-way radio -

These are all tools that are required to keep up with the enforcement of the laws on the books - game wardens shouldn't be any different - don't they have to carry a scale around with them anyway??
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:29 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texastaxi View Post
. 40#'s is a milestone to most youths on here ... it's almost like these kids getting their licenses! I don't remember who it was, but his kid set up HIS OWN workout to build himself up to 40#!
Not to take anything away from this thread....but this is exactly what I did with my little brother. He set a goal, did some workouts several times a week, and eventually worked his way up to the weight. It was a fun experience for both of us.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:35 AM   #27
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Its about time Folks... Its an old antiquated law, hard to enforce that does nothing. we don't need any limit on bow in Texas.

Old experienced bowehunters know the most important item in a bow/arrow Broadhead rig is the sharpness and design of the Broadhead.

West Virginia has a 30# bow draw weight minimum and they harvest a lot more deer with abow then we do in Texas.

The old regulations/laws were developed when Bowhunters were trying get a bow & arrow legalized in the 1940s and early 1950s as they didn't want little kids an suction cup arrow huntin deer so non- bowhunters set a 45# weigh when bows were wooden self bow are maybe solid fiber glass.

It worked

Fred Bear said in the 1940s that a 45# bow ( recurve bow) would kill any animal in North America cleanly & quickly.

That was very true a 45# Bear Grizzly (1988) recurve and a 2016 easton Alum Xx75 arrow with a 125 grainbear razorhead Broadhead at 28" inch might be lucky to produce 29# of KE & this 29# of KE has killed buffalo, deer, pronhforn, elk, moose, grizzly, Kodiak Bear, sheep goats, hogs,gators,all North American big game.


But here in Texas home to some of the smallest Whitetailed deer in North America thats over kill.

Today's modern compound bows produce a much higher amount of energy for the weight pulled tha clasic traditional recuvre and long bows..

In my opinion a 30# Modern Compound Bow, like a Parker Challenger Compound and a sharp single blade Broadhead will kill any wild game in Texas. Quite often with a pass thru!

Yes Sir I have seen it many times.
The old 40# draw doesn't differentiate between 40# wooden self bow with 20 # of KE (legal) and a 40# Modern high tech Compound bow.

In reality bowhunters are self regulating and 99% of all young Bowhunters have a parent or uncle or a guide to supervise the hunt
they all want the kid or lady to make a kill so the take pains to hone and sharpen Broadhead so that any hit in the thorax is fatal.
They limit shots to 10 or 15 yards and as result a super high percentage of one arrow bow kills for the kids & the ladies.

The old 40# Texas draw weigh keep older women and men, may short stature women and many kids from bowhunting. That cuts our numbers. lack of numbers means a lack of influence with theTexas Parks & Wildlife Officials

Texas has the one of the shortest bow season in the nation SAD TO say.

Maryland has 30# weight limit and they kill a lot more deer than Texas does Maryland Bow Seasons from Early Sept to end of February

Virgina which has no bow weight limit has a bow season from Sept first to March 31st in may areas.

I have said over and over we need to dump this useless uneeded law that hurts bowhunting in Texas

There is middle aged lady mother of 3 in Wal*Greens @ Kerrville She has a Mathews bow shoot it well but cannot draw over 30# so she HAS NEVER BOWHUNTED.

She is a better shot than I am at 20 yards I would bet anything that she can blow arrow thru deer & hogs all day long with her Mathews bow.

but her 30# Mathews is illegal for shooting Texas 80# Hill country deer.

shame on US.

shame on Texas.

When was a Professional Hunter ( PH) (Guide) in South Africa we had a 6 1/2 year old American boy bow that came out to to bowhunt.

Boy went to the offices of the Wildlife Dept and at 15 yards hit a Paper cup every time at 15 yards so they they OK'ed. his hunt

Boy aged 6, shoot& killed 3 warthogs & a great Impala ram with a 25# Hoyt Banshee bow and didn't wound anything,


Midge Dandridge 4' 10" lady from California shot a 2200# bull eland with a 45# Jennings bow one arrow she shot 16 other African Animals in 1975.

After that the South African game depts didn't ask for anything higher than 45# for African game.

Any one who has raised or mentored kids know that once a kid hit puberty you can loose the child to hunting, as he she/ will be engrossed in the INTERNET, music, malls, cars, drugs, booze, sex, members of the opposiste sex etc.

Children that are raise to hunt and shoot bows & guns seldom get into trouble with the law....and seld end up prefant or on drugs in rehab etc.

We want kids to shoot, not "shoot Up".

My son Jeff stared bowhunting with a bow at age 5 aged shot flying turkey with his bow ay six years old and age 7, shoot & killed 2 Whitetailed doe deer and a 102# fallow deer doe. each with one arrow!
At age age 8 he killed wild boar made pass through on 200# hogs.

Shooting a 30# Howatt Hi Speed recurve bow 58" long 30# draw, Jeff Nathan killed whitetailed 2 does on a federal national Wildlife refuge hunt with 88 adults. He killed 2 of the 7 deer killed on that 2 day hunt.

Let unite and allow our kids and grand- kids, our daughters, wives and sweethearts to allow them to bowhunt with the family during deer etc during bow season. It would mean more Archery bow stamps sold too. that helps count our numbers in Austin.

Leys get the LSBA & TBHs Memebrs to push for this adjustment to the old out of date old fashioned regulation that is unneeded, not enforced ( how can you) and puts Texas in the dark ages of bowhunting.

Here is a pix of my ex wife DR DEAN with her huge Kudu bull laid low with one arrow ann XX75 1818 and a Montec Warrior Single blade Broadhead Broadhead shot from 32# Jennings micro Carbon extrema Bow at 12 yards in South Africa. Arrow went thru Kudus guts at last rib, thru diaphragm liver, lungs and stuck into the heart. Bull only ran 71 yards.

DR DEAN was 60 and could not pull a bow any heaver due to a neck injury.

DR Dean went on to kill warthogs, Impala and Blesbuck all with one shot one arrow kills.

Boys, you no longer need 40# to kill a deer in Texas

Thanks

Tink Nathan
retired African Professional Hunter & Outfitter.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:39 AM   #28
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It's not just about the kids... What if you have someone that has an upper body impairment but could shoot a 30#s compound without trouble but not 40#s. Yea, they could go to a Draw-Lok or get a doctors note for a crossbow but if it was you wouldn’t you rather hunt with a 30# hand drawn compound that you knew could easily kill a deer? Folks drop out of bow hunting every day because they can no long draw the required poundage and refuse to go with a crossbow or Draw-Lok.

Does anyone know how long the 40# limit has been in place? Kind of like P&Y raising the let-off limit changing with the advancement of technology.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:40 AM   #29
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Post Could nto get pix to post too large

Any body her that can resize a few pix for me?

If you send an emailto silverwolfhound2@yahoo.com then I can attach them OK?
Tink

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Old 03-02-2007, 11:40 AM   #30
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Texas has a 125# limit on crossbows, too.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:43 AM   #31
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Why would ask a real bowhuner like Jasmine smith to use a crossbow when she has ALREADY killed 9 hogs with her Parker compound? get real!
this is not a crossbow thread so sir- Please stick to the subject OK?

Thanks

TINK
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:50 AM   #32
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Tink ... you're rambling again!

Howie, how heavy are her arrows and what speed does her bow spit them out?
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:53 AM   #33
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I agree that this is way overdue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotton View Post
Does anyone know how long the 40# limit has been in place? Kind of like P&Y raising the let-off limit changing with the advancement of technology.
I'd be interested in that info also.

I believe to get this changed, you'll need good info on what's acceptible as a mimimum KE for killing deer. Then you'll need to take that and back it into something that's easy for Wardens to determine in the field. I don't think trying to use a chrono would be easy. However, there aren't that many bow manufacturers that make these low poundage/kids bows. Warden's could be provided with a list of bow models and their necessary poundage to produce the KE with a certain arrow weighjt. The warden would then only need the draw weight scale they have now and one capable of roughly measuring total arrow weight.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:55 AM   #34
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It should definately be lowered to 30-35lbs. Maybe they could make a distinction between compounds and trad and have different limits for each leaving trad at 40lbs.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:57 AM   #35
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Dang, Devin, you're SMART!!! It really is that easy ... it just takes a great mind, like yours, to put it in plain English!

Here's a good guide for KE
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:00 PM   #36
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her arrows are 24 inch beeman ics juniors with a 75 gr muzzy she chronied at ganfer mountain at 260
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:05 PM   #37
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Quote:
I don't think trying to use a chrono would be easy.
I have to disagree it would be as simple as drawing your bow and shooting one arrow. I'd say with the crono posted above and a scale I could have anyone's KE in under 5 minutes.
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:09 PM   #38
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OK, those arrows are 7.3 grains per inch, so her arrow is gonna weigh about 250 grains, with the tip, not counting fletchings or nock. She's producing 37 ft/lbs of kinetic energy. 40# is reccommended, by Gold Tip, for medium sized game, such as deer.

BTW, her bow shoots as fast as my Switchback XT ... what's she shootin', I might have to get one!
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:09 PM   #39
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Does anyone know of a person that has actually had their bow checked for draw weight? Just curious.

Dang Tink....you've got so many exes I can't keep them straight! If you could just get that group of ladies to lobby TPWD they could get something done!

Just messing with you. I've got one myself!
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:12 PM   #40
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Sorry Cotton but do you really want to fire one of your broadheads at 7:00 at night when the game warden rolls up? Just doesn't seem very practical.
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:16 PM   #41
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I have an 11 year old daughter which was 10 during this last deer season and she was able to shoot 35lbs well. I too did not let her shoot. I did however let her sit in the stand with me that way she could still have some of the experience and she now is up to 37 lbs because she is working hard to make the 40lbs so she can hunt next season. I think that there needs to be some type of base line and if 40lbs is where they have it then so be it. I don’t have a problem with that. My wife killed 2 deer last year with her bow set at 41 lbs. Just like you can kill deer all day with a 22 Rimfire but you can not de it legally either. But I do agree that it is KE that will do the work and a good sharp broad head. But there again there has to be some baseline.
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:16 PM   #42
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she is shooting a parker buckshot the 30-40 lb limbs she is on the grow as you go program started with the 20-30 olb limbs they make a 41-50 lb lim the bow has big secentrics and shoots hard!!!
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:20 PM   #43
howie1968
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Location: Lufkin,Texas
Hunt In: Alabama Creek WMA, Alazan Bayou WMA, Davey crockett NF, Angelina NF, Upland Island wilderness area,
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are there any ladies on the foumn that can relate to this subjext?? i appreciate everyones views this is how we acomplish things is by talking i9 apreciate yall
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:23 PM   #44
Cotton
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Cull, a field point of the same weight 5 yards from a target, sure no problem. If a person can't do that then they really have no buisness hunting with a bow anyway.

Last edited by Cotton; 03-02-2007 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:28 PM   #45
Devin
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Here's a good article that lists KE requirements.


Easton's recommendations:

Quote:
KE -Hunting Usage

< 25 ft. lbs. - Small Game

25-41 ft. lbs. - Medium Game (deer, antelope, etc.)

42-65 ft. lbs. - Large Game (elk, black bear, wild boar, etc.)

> 65 ft. lbs. - Toughest Game (Cape Buffalo, Grizzly, etc.)
I think something in the neighborhood of 30 ft-lbs is much more realistic.... especially for Texas sized WT's.
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:31 PM   #46
Texastaxi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin View Post
I think something in the neighborhood of 30 ft-lbs is much more realistic.... especially for Texas sized WT's.
That's just cause you shoot those baby deer!
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:31 PM   #47
Devin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chew View Post
Does anyone know of a person that has actually had their bow checked for draw weight? Just curious.
I'd like to know that as well. Don't know I've ever heard of anyone being checked. Are Warden's even currently equipped with a means of checking this?

I sent an email to TPWD asking for more info on the history of the 40# requirement and how it was selected. I'll post if I get anything back.

Quote:
That's just cause you shoot those baby deer!
Wrong! I don't shoot ANY deer.

And, watch it, Deputy!
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:33 PM   #48
howie1968
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Hunt In: Alabama Creek WMA, Alazan Bayou WMA, Davey crockett NF, Angelina NF, Upland Island wilderness area,
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Devin i think that is realistic whith that criteria that would get our youth hunting deer instead of video games cell phonest etc what is Ted Nugents favorite quote???
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:36 PM   #49
BrianL
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I say do away with minumium all together! Let the hunter decide. There is no min. for rifles (except rimfire) even though there are many .17 - .22 calibers out there that have no business in a deer blind. IMOP.
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:40 PM   #50
Texastaxi
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Sorry, Devin, I keep forgettin' that Blaine fills the freezer for you!
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