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Old 08-06-2012, 09:30 PM   #1
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Default Pope and Young and sight lights.

I did a search for this on here and didn't see anything so I want the green screens opinions or facts. Im not sure on the issue, but is there a restriction or used to be one about shooting a deer that will go p&y but your sight is equipped with a pin light ( whether you used it or not) that would restrict it from being eligible for p&y. I thought I heard a few years ago that you couldn't enter one if it was shot and you were equipped with a pin light. Figured since they are so popular now adays that would be lifted. If it hasn't already been done.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:33 PM   #2
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Not lifted.
Electronic device on bow or arrow.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:37 PM   #3
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violation...........thus not elgible for P&Y as currently written. YES, they need to update quite a few things about the organization or they are going to loose more status moving forward!
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:39 PM   #4
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http://www.pope-young.org/bowhunting_equipment.asp

The Pope and Young Club has established the following standard definitions of bowhunting equipment.

I. Hunting Bow

C. Exclusions:

1. The following shall not be considered a hunting bow:

a) A crossbow.
b) Any device with a gun-type stock or incorporating any device or mechanism that holds the bowstring at partial or full draw without the shooter’s muscle power.
c) Electronic or battery-powered devices shall not be attached to a hunting bow.

Also if you have a lighted nock you are prohibited:

II. Hunting Arrow

B. Exclusions:

1. No electronic or battery-powered devices shall be attached to the arrow.

P&Y is old school bow hunting... based upon these priciples:
Challenge
Simplicity
Primitive
Discipline
Patience
Practice
Perseverance
Skill
Outdoorsmanship
Craftsmanship

In other words in our life time They aint EVER gonna allow it.

Last edited by Coach W; 08-06-2012 at 09:42 PM..
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:46 PM   #5
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Remember this also, it states "no electronic devices attached to the hunting bow". this means also if you take a watch and take the band off and attach it to your bow for knowing the time and not having to wear a watch, this technically makes any P&Y animal you kill, inelgible for entry.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:48 PM   #6
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Ok thanks guys... Wasn't sure, my light is removable to the point you don't know the sight has one. Doesn't this include sights that have the tapped hole for it even though it wasn't attached.

Dang Nate, I've looked that site overe before and never have seen that. I an respect old school but don't like it when old farts can't catch up with the times.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:53 PM   #7
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If you shoot one that qualifies and want to enter it just don't mention the light. Very simple in my book.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:56 PM   #8
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LOL Blake, I wouldnt have seen it either if it hadnt come up at camp a few times and we decided to google it... Those old farts dont know how to make an internet site very navigable

I dont think I will ever get to shoot one that qualifies... but if it does I sure aint gonna lie about it.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslinger View Post
Remember this also, it states "no electronic devices attached to the hunting bow". this means also if you take a watch and take the band off and attach it to your bow for knowing the time and not having to wear a watch, this technically makes any P&Y animal you kill, inelgible for entry.
Well that's dumb, I don't need a watch anyway. I just look at the sun.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:57 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by flywise View Post
If you shoot one that qualifies and want to enter it just don't mention the light. Very simple in my book.
Wrong actually, as that would be misrepresentation.

If you want to be in the club, play by the club rules.
It's this simple.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:02 PM   #11
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Oh well :rolleyes
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:04 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by rocky View Post
Wrong actually, as that would be misrepresentation.

If you want to be in the club, play by the club rules.
It's this simple.
This is correct.

You also can't shoot lighted nocks...
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:08 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by rocky View Post
If you want to be in the club, play by the club rules.
It's this simple.
Well it's been a goal of mine for a while, guess I'll have to strip the gear of all electronic devises until it happens. Or just take my light off and carry me an arrow with reg nock.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:09 PM   #14
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I never use my light anyways! A good quality sight doesn't need a light during legal shooting hours
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by BBReezen View Post
Well it's been a goal of mine for a while, guess I'll have to strip the gear of all electronic devises until it happens. Or just take my light off and carry me an arrow with reg nock.
Mine too.
I've always kept my equipment P&Y legal just in case.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:10 PM   #16
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LOL Blake, I wouldnt have seen it either if it hadnt come up at camp a few times and we decided to google it... Those old farts dont know how to make an internet site very navigable

I dont think I will ever get to shoot one that qualifies... but if it does I sure aint gonna lie about it.
For some reason I'll always have a buck picked out that will be borderline, then when he comes in at 12 yds I usually can't do it cause I just know something bigger will come out but never does. Then the buck I wanted never comes back.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:14 PM   #17
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I never use my light anyways! A good quality sight doesn't need a light during legal shooting hours
My first sight came with it and I never used it, the new Black Gold sight I got didn't come with one but got one anyway for hog hunting. If I were to take the photochromatic shell off of the fibers it would prob light up with moonlight. Man the fibers they use pick up light real well.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:17 PM   #18
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If you shoot one that qualifies and want to enter it just don't mention the spotlight and .22. Very simple in my book.
Would this be ok?
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:20 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by jooger17 View Post
Would this be ok?
Make sure you use those segmented .22 bullets so it looks similar to a 3 blade broadhead.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:21 PM   #20
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My first sight came with it and I never used it, the new Black Gold sight I got didn't come with one but got one anyway for hog hunting. If I were to take the photochromatic shell off of the fibers it would prob light up with moonlight. Man the fibers they use pick up light real well.
Seeing my pins has ever really been an issue, it's seeing through my peep that gets me. I shoot a smaller peep for tighter groups and just can't see through it when it starts getting dark. At 20yds it's no problem. When I anchor off correctly my 20 is directly in the center of my peep.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:22 PM   #21
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Make sure you use those segmented .22 bullets so it looks similar to a 3 blade broadhead.
Haha BLADE BULLETS!!! The cut on contact Hollywood Hard Hitters!
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:30 PM   #22
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Seeing my pins has ever really been an issue, it's seeing through my peep that gets me. I shoot a smaller peep for tighter groups and just can't see through it when it starts getting dark. At 20yds it's no problem. When I anchor off correctly my 20 is directly in the center of my peep.
Well when it's dark I have a hard time focusing on exactly where my pins, peep and target are all at once. I had some pigs come in while deer hunting a few years back right before shooting light. Being in a pop up with only one or two windows open it was dark enough I could see the pins but couldn't tell where the ends were, not enought light for pins. My buddy had turned his light on so he took the shot and from then on if I was going to need to shoot when it was dark I would just used the light. Takes away from me wondering exactly where the pins are and making a bad shot.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:36 PM   #23
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Well when it's dark I have a hard time focusing on exactly where my pins, peep and target are all at once. I had some pigs come in while deer hunting a few years back right before shooting light. Being in a pop up with only one or two windows open it was dark enough I could see the pins but couldn't tell where the ends were, not enought light for pins. My buddy had turned his light on so he took the shot and from then on if I was going to need to shoot when it was dark I would just used the light. Takes away from me wondering exactly where the pins are and making a bad shot.
I gotcha. I dont hunt much from ground blinds for that reason about loosing 15min of hunting time.

Maybe one day the P&Y people will wake up. I guess I can see the lighted pin business but the lighted nock??? How does that help you kill a deer.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by jooger17 View Post
I gotcha. I dont hunt much from ground blinds for that reason about loosing 15min of hunting time.

Maybe one day the P&Y people will wake up. I guess I can see the lighted pin business but the lighted nock??? How does that help you kill a deer.
It doesn't,

But, it opens the door.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:43 PM   #25
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In all honesty, if the elders of P&Y had their way, compounds would probably not be allowed and the over 65% let off would not be in effect. I am a P&Y measurer and I disagree with some of their Fair Chase policies, but that is my opinion. I do not see how a lighted nock or sight lights give you and advantage. All they do is allow you to see a little better where your arrow hit and to give you the full time of LEGAL shooting light when it is cloudy or you are sitting in a pop up or other blind. It is hard to see the full shooitng time you are allowed by law if you are in an enclosed blind and cannot use a sight light if you want to enter an animal in P&Y. But that is their rules and if you want to enter an animal, abide by the rules even if you do not agree with them.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:12 PM   #26
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What is a pope & young??
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:14 PM   #27
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I guess ill just have to follow the rules. In this day in age though you would at least think the argument on ethical kills would be that lighted knocks would make arrow recovery easier and easier t o get reference point to find blood trail. But I guess the old guys at p&y would say we need to get better on our tracking skills.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:38 PM   #28
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Pope & Young is the record keeping organization for bow killed animals. they have minimum scores for all 29 species of NA Big game and if you kill one that will score the minimum or above then if meet all their qualifications for entry, then you cna get an animal in the P7Y books.
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:59 AM   #29
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Would this be ok?
That's pure stupidity actually
So, the only deer in the registry that matter are the top 10.
If a person happens to be hunting and kills a buck that scores number 1 in the world at 2 in the afternoon during the rut and he happens to have lighted pins and a lighted knock you guys are saying that p/y would not allow that deer to be registered. I highly doubt it. And if you were that person your saying you would not even try to register it?
If just having a light pin or knock is an advantage and a disqualification then so in mechanical advantage from a compound bow, and lets not forget the buck that has been fed 20k in protein for 6 years.
Basically, if a person wants to register a deer that meets minimum requirements is not hurting anything by fudging on whether or not he used a lighted knock.

Last edited by flywise; 08-07-2012 at 05:01 AM..
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:46 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flywise View Post
If you shoot one that qualifies and want to enter it just don't mention the light. Very simple in my book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flywise View Post
That's pure stupidity actually
So, the only deer in the registry that matter are the top 10.
If a person happens to be hunting and kills a buck that scores number 1 in the world at 2 in the afternoon during the rut and he happens to have lighted pins and a lighted knock you guys are saying that p/y would not allow that deer to be registered. I highly doubt it. And if you were that person your saying you would not even try to register it?
If just having a light pin or knock is an advantage and a disqualification then so in mechanical advantage from a compound bow, and lets not forget the buck that has been fed 20k in protein for 6 years.
Basically, if a person wants to register a deer that meets minimum requirements is not hurting anything by fudging on whether or not he used a lighted knock.
If asked by a P&Y scorer, especially a panel of scorers in the event of a possible World Record, you would have to lie.
If you were to tell the truth, the animal would be disqualified.
Integrity is the issue here, even if some scorers simply refuse to interrogate the hunter on his submission to the club.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:56 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by flywise View Post
If you shoot one that qualifies and want to enter it just don't mention the light. Very simple in my book.
You'll need an affidavit from someone who was hunting with you to swear to it being killed with no elec devices. Could not enter my bear from last yr due to me using a Nocturnal nock on my arrow.

Last edited by Txbhunter1; 08-07-2012 at 07:00 AM..
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:04 AM   #32
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A world record would be subject to a lie detector at the least. Even Chuck Adams had a hard time getting in the club. Remember P&Y is just that A CLUB not a public institution, their club their rules.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:13 AM   #33
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SCI... Just sayin.


P&Y

No sight lights
No lighted nocks
No broadheads under 70 grains
No total arrow weight under 300 grains
No arrows shorter than 20"
If you are over 65% let off you get an * by your name

Then there is the fact that i had a P&Y Official tell me while I was a member that and I quote "Killing a deer with a compound shouldnt even be considered an accomplishment".

They can have there club. Record Books are not why I hunt anyway. And yes i have some deer that will make their minimum and past their stupid little rules. I chose not to enter them.

Last edited by Ragin'; 08-07-2012 at 07:17 AM..
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:16 AM   #34
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SCI... Just sayin.

Did you get my PM?
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:18 AM   #35
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Did you get my PM?
Just now. I'll return it.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:29 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by rocky View Post
If asked by a P&Y scorer, especially a panel of scorers in the event of a possible World Record, you would have to lie.
If you were to tell the truth, the animal would be disqualified.
Integrity is the issue here, even if some scorers simply refuse to interrogate the hunter on his submission to the club.
Well then it really would not be worth being in the club in the first place.
Not that I ever personally cared about any " club "
The one deer I have ever killed that would qualify to the minimums ( as I understand them) was the first animal I ever killed with my recurve bow.
And with rules like this one as well as deductions in scoring are all reasons why this club and the other big club will never be a true representation of the real animals killed
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:36 AM   #37
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Well then it really would not be worth being in the club in the first place.
Not that I ever personally cared about any " club "
The one deer I have ever killed that would qualify to the minimums ( as I understand them) was the first animal I ever killed with my recurve bow.
And with rules like this one as well as deductions in scoring are all reasons why this club and the other big club will never be a true representation of the real animals killed
I can appreciate your disagreement, but the P&Y and B&C clubs have set the standards, by which deer are measured.
For those that disagree with these standards, there are other clubs with different, more lax standards.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:41 AM   #38
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I can appreciate your disagreement, but the P&Y and B&C clubs have set the standards, by which deer are measured.
For those that disagree with these standards, there are other clubs with different, more lax standards.
SCI. No net scores! Only Gross! Which is what they grew. Beyond me why anyone would deduct from a whitetail anyway with the umpteen million different ways they can grow.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:42 AM   #39
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What happens if your hunting alone and you do not have any wittness and you lay the smack down on a 130" buck? Do you have to have a wittness? So on any hunting show, were there using a lighted nock and shoot a booner, they sometimes show at the end of the recovery of the deer the score. I have seen them say boone and crockett 170". Is that just after they score it and they just say it is a boone and crockett or pope & young?

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Old 08-07-2012, 07:42 AM   #40
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the idea behind registering an animal in the p&y registry is to get recognition for killing a special animal following the rules laid down by the powers that be at p&y. they have made the recent concession to technology by including the asterisk. it is refreshing to see a club that hasn't acquiesced to the pc standards several seem to call for and hold to their beliefs. if cheating and lying to get your trophy recognized as recommended earlier is necessary, why do it at all?
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:59 AM   #41
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How does a "lighted nock" improve your chances? why would this be considered "against" old school when to me it fits in the "creative" category.
all it does is help the hunter follow the arrow, after the shot (mainly for film in my book). it's not like it's a tracer round helping the next arrow find the spot......
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:19 AM   #42
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How does a "lighted nock" improve your chances? why would this be considered "against" old school when to me it fits in the "creative" category.
all it does is help the hunter follow the arrow, after the shot (mainly for film in my book). it's not like it's a tracer round helping the next arrow find the spot......
It doesn't. But it does give you a competitive advantage. Imagine this scenario. You and I are 40 yards apart in seperate tree stands. It is the last part of legal shooting light and a deer that would easily make book comes out between us. I have no light on my sight, but you do. You will have the ability to see your pin and shoot the animal, where as I would not.

I look at it like corking a bat, or shaving a carbon bat, or any other equipment rule for a fishing tournament. To keep all levels of competition equal some have to be limited.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:31 AM   #43
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It doesn't. But it does give you a competitive advantage. Imagine this scenario. You and I are 40 yards apart in seperate tree stands. It is the last part of legal shooting light and a deer that would easily make book comes out between us. I have no light on my sight, but you do. You will have the ability to see your pin and shoot the animal, where as I would not.

I look at it like corking a bat, or shaving a carbon bat, or any other equipment rule for a fishing tournament. To keep all levels of competition equal some have to be limited.
I don't believe your example applies to his question. He was referring to a lighted nock, not a lighted sight.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:40 AM   #44
bowhuntntxn
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Ok. Same concept of competitive advantage applies. With a lighted nock, and no pass through, then the hunter has the advantage of using the nock to assist in finding the animal either dead or alive.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:51 AM   #45
dragonsdaddy
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SCI. No net scores! Only Gross! Which is what they grew. Beyond me why anyone would deduct from a whitetail anyway with the umpteen million different ways they can grow.
i couldn't agree more. my net scores are how many inches i can measure.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:05 AM   #46
Ragin'
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i couldn't agree more. my net scores are how many inches i can measure.
I hear ya! Im 5'7"!!! To hell with net !!!
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:11 AM   #47
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Here. We dont care if you have sight lights, lighted nocks, 65 grain broad heads, bows less than 29" ata or 80% letoff.

Fyi, bows with a 29" ata is a P&Y dq as well.




http://www.scifirstforhunters.org/
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:18 AM   #48
Sippy
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Dang, they must be taking lessons from the lsba ...
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:20 AM   #49
rladner
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Ok. Same concept of competitive advantage applies. With a lighted nock, and no pass through, then the hunter has the advantage of using the nock to assist in finding the animal either dead or alive.
I don't buy that. A lighted nock has never helped me find an animal. I agree it does provide me with a better ability to see where my shot hit the animal, but in no way does it make the shot better or easier. Even if it aided in finding the dead animal (assuming it is dark and the arrow did not pass through), not sure how that would be against P&Y values. Wouldn't they WANT you to find the animal you just shot? Just don't see where having an aide in finding your animal is a competitive advantage. Don't flash lights aide in recovery as well? Those are legal. I agree it is their rules and I play by them, but don't agree with the lighted nock issue and don't agree it provides any advantage.

By the way, I am a member and have been for several years because generally I agree with what they stand for, but little silly rules like "no lighted nocks" really should be changed.

Last edited by rladner; 08-07-2012 at 09:22 AM..
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:26 AM   #50
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Ok. Same concept of competitive advantage applies. With a lighted nock, and no pass through, then the hunter has the advantage of using the nock to assist in finding the animal either dead or alive.

I see what your meaning, but the "competitive advantage" leaves room for debate..
meaning for example (during the "after the shot" tracking)
you've blood trailed more deer than I- competitive advantage
you happen to carry a spray bottle of Hydrogen peroxide to verify blood splatter - competitive adv.
probably easier to leave it at "electronic device"
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