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Old 05-19-2018, 03:53 PM   #1
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Default Back at the range :sad:

Verifying zero.
One minute I'm good, next low and left.
Than low and right.
Shot feels good it's off, feels bad it's close.
I miss my 5.56.

This batch is Hornady Superformance 165 grain GMX.
Ridge was sighted in using Hornady Full Boar 165 grain GMX

I picked up my brass.
Not sure what this mark means
Unfired on the left.
Fired on the right.
Half moon mark is what's puzzling me.
Last week it was stove piping. But the primer was facing out and the next round was in the chamber.


Unfired Round


12 fired rounds. All have that mark.


Google says it's an Ejector swipe.
Is that something to be concerned over?

Last edited by Pushbutton2; 05-19-2018 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 05-19-2018, 03:58 PM   #2
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Ejector marks from high pressure.
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Old 05-19-2018, 04:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTucker View Post
Ejector marks from high pressure.
High pressure

I'm shooting factory loaded Hornady Superformance.

Do I need to be scared to shoot this ammo?
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Old 05-19-2018, 04:14 PM   #4
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cratered primers like that can also be a high pressure sign
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Old 05-19-2018, 04:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
High pressure

I'm shooting factory loaded Hornady Superformance.

Do I need to be scared to shoot this ammo?
I wouldnt shoot it anymore. Have you tried other kinds of ammo, and how did it do?
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Old 05-19-2018, 04:21 PM   #6
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Is it doing that with other factory ammo??

Right now I would be concerned with a tight chamber...I don't recall, what's the story on the rig??
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Old 05-19-2018, 04:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTucker View Post
I wouldnt shoot it anymore. Have you tried other kinds of ammo, and how did it do?
I've sir 2 Manufacturers Ammo

1) Hornady Full Boar 165 GMX @ 60 rds
Gave a buddy some spent casings. He said 1 of the 4 he saw laughing on his reloading bench had it.

2) Browning 168 grn Controlled Expansion. 20 rounds.
Didn't check

3) Hornady Superformance 165 GMX
12 rounds. Noticed it with these rounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artos View Post
Is it doing that with other factory ammo??

Right now I would be concerned with a tight chamber...I don't recall, what's the story on the rig??
History:
DPMS Oracle AR10 about 92 rds
Factory gas and BCG
Only swap I didn't was Trigger and Pistol grip.
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Old 05-19-2018, 04:52 PM   #8
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If it were me, I would contact DPMS & have them check the gun out since you are seeing it with multiple boxes...personally, I would not be comfortable selling it with such excessive pressure signs. I would send the fired cases in as well.

I don't think you have a Hornady problem.
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Old 05-19-2018, 04:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artos View Post
If it were me, I would contact DPMS & have them check the gun out since you are seeing it with multiple boxes...personally, I would not be comfortable selling it with such excessive pressure signs. I would send the fired cases in as well.

I don't think you have a Hornady problem.
I have to agree with Artos. Those are some pretty severe marks on the brass, and if it is happening with multiple types of ammo get it checked out.
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:12 PM   #10
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Hornady Superformance is CRAP. Change to Hornady Match and I bet you have no issues at all.
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Old 05-19-2018, 06:31 PM   #11
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Over pressured for sure.

Iíd contact DPMS, may be a chamber/headspace issue.


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Old 05-19-2018, 08:46 PM   #12
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Do you or any one you know have another 308 you could fire one of those rounds in a different gun? May tell you if it's the gun or ammo. In consistent on target because you are grossly over pressure.
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Old 05-19-2018, 11:02 PM   #13
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Thank you all.

I spoke with the owner of the gun shop where I bought it.
He thinks it could be a bolt issue.
He said I should contact his Gunsmith. I'm ok with that.

I'm trying to track down as much of the brass that I've shot though it as I can.

I have a buddy that has a Delton Echo .308.
I'll ask him to fire a few rounds through his rifle for comparison.
I only have 8 rounds of the Superformance left.

Another thing I was thinking is that the 1st 15-17 our so rounds I seemed to be pretty accurate and than it went to put.

I cleaned the rifle very good after shooting it last week. The patches were coming out clean.
I did have a pile of green ones.
That didn't seem to help my range session today.

Here's a link to another thread I started about this rifle.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...5&share_type=t


https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...5&share_type=t

Last edited by Pushbutton2; 05-19-2018 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainsling View Post
Hornady Superformance is CRAP. Change to Hornady Match and I bet you have no issues at all.
Yep. My favorite round for my Howa 270 was the Hornady Custom with the 130gr SST. Shot so well I never even tried anything else. Then they quit making it and replaced it with the Superformance SST load. Total crap. Like 2-3" groups. I searched and searched for old stock custom rounds but couldnt find any. Ticks me off.
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
High pressure

I'm shooting factory loaded Hornady Superformance.

Do I need to be scared to shoot this ammo?
from that gun yes,,,
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:18 AM   #16
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Is the gun chambered for 308 or 7.62 x 51?

I second the superformance being crap. I've tried 3 different calibers, none shot worth a flip. 243, 7-08 and 6.5CM. My CM is a 1/2 minute gun with Hornady black ammo, it turns into a 2 minute gun with the superformance.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearintex View Post
Is the gun chambered for 308 or 7.62 x 51?

I second the superformance being crap. I've tried 3 different calibers, none shot worth a flip. 243, 7-08 and 6.5CM. My CM is a 1/2 minute gun with Hornady black ammo, it turns into a 2 minute gun with the superformance.
I guess I was lucky with that ammo in my AR Creed(5 shot group)
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:38 PM   #18
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I have many rifles in many calibers, only one will shoot superformance
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Old 05-21-2018, 06:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearintex View Post
Is the gun chambered for 308 or 7.62 x 51?

I second the superformance being crap. I've tried 3 different calibers, none shot worth a flip. 243, 7-08 and 6.5CM. My CM is a 1/2 minute gun with Hornady black ammo, it turns into a 2 minute gun with the superformance.
.308
I'll quadruple check when I get home
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Old 05-21-2018, 06:17 PM   #20
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the case head swipe is an indication of either high pressure or timing off.
a lot of carbine-length 308 ARs are over gassed.
the primer craters can be a pressure sign but also the result of an over-sized firing pin hole in the bolt face, which is problem with a lot of DPMS 308s.
VERY unlikely to be an ammo issue.
Like any ammo, some guns like it and some don't. Many more people shoot Superformance successfully than don't. The ones that don't are typically louder about it.
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
.308
I'll quadruple check when I get home
My DPMS LR-308 is marked 7.62X51 on the barrel. I shoot .308 win ammo out of it only and my brass does not look like yours. I have not tried Hornady Superformance though.
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
.308
I'll quadruple check when I get home
What'd you find?

If you gun is over-gassed, as many 308 ARs are, a heavier buffer spring is an easy and cheap way to tune that out.

Here's a good article about what you're seeing:
link
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Old 05-22-2018, 01:21 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
What'd you find?

If you gun is over-gassed, as many 308 ARs are, a heavier buffer spring is an easy and cheap way to tune that out.

Here's a good article about what you're seeing:
link
I didn't look.
I was hoping my buddy wanted to go hunting. He didn't.


I gave another friend 8 rounds of the Superformance ammo to shoot in his Delton AR. He says his gun leaves the same marks.

I texted the pics to the Gunsmith. He said it's normal, Hornady cases are soft

Last edited by Pushbutton2; 05-22-2018 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wade _s View Post
My DPMS LR-308 is marked 7.62X51 on the barrel. I shoot .308 win ammo out of it only and my brass does not look like yours. I have not tried Hornady Superformance though.


Just FYI, you should not shoot 308 Winchester ammo in a 7.62 x 51 chamber. It is just the opposite of the 5.56 versus 223 issue.


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Old 05-22-2018, 07:44 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
Just FYI, you should not shoot 308 Winchester ammo in a 7.62 x 51 chamber. It is just the opposite of the 5.56 versus 223 issue.


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That is a first for me...what's the angle of a 308 generating more pressure than a hotter 7.62?? I just assumed the reamer specs would be identical.
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:29 PM   #26
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https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/7-6...he-difference/
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Old 05-23-2018, 10:37 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
Just FYI, you should not shoot 308 Winchester ammo in a 7.62 x 51 chamber. It is just the opposite of the 5.56 versus 223 issue.


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Just FYI DPMS told me that my rifle can shoot both .308win and 7.62X51 ammunition. Since they actually manufactured the rifle, I think I will take their word over yours. You canít believe everything you read on the internet.
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Old 05-23-2018, 11:11 AM   #28
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^ Lol take it easy.

Interested to hear the source of the issue, OP... Soft cases? I thought I read that other Hornady ammo wasn't being marked like that?
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Old 05-23-2018, 11:51 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHogDown View Post
Interested to hear the source of the issue, OP... Soft cases?
Given what I've seen of 308 ARs and DPMS in particular, I'm skeptical of this conclusion.
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Old 05-23-2018, 11:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
Given what I've seen of 308 ARs and DPMS in particular, I'm skeptical of this conclusion.
I would've dismissed the idea if it wasn't coming from a smith. But then again, I'm not very knowledgeable regarding the topic... admittedly. Curious to hear what others have to say.
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Old 05-23-2018, 12:36 PM   #31
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If you're seeing moderate to excessive case head swipe, it could be an ammo problem, a gun problem or both. But is it serious? Barring another sign of high pressure, such as excessive velocities for your barrel length and failures to feed, minimal CHS is probably not dangerous. Keep in mind, softer brass used by some manufacturers can exaggerate CHS. It's fairly common for many AR-15s and AR-10s to show minimal CHS with some pressure-safe loads.

A blown primer is generally considered a true sign of high pressure, but according to Nosler, it's not always the case with an AR. In severe cases of improper timing, the same circumstances that can cause CHS allow the primer cup to move rearward in the primer pocket, compromising the seal. The primer doesn't fall out until the case is ejected, and usually ends up in the trigger housing. A blown primer may not be a true indication of high pressure, but it is a definite sign of a problem that needs to be addressed. I treat a blown primer as a sign of high pressure and suggest you do the same.

CHS can randomly appear because peak pressure and velocity can vary a great deal between rounds out of the same lot—as much as 4,000 psi and more than 100 fps. This is a good reason to select loads that produce consistent velocities.

Excessive CHS can mar case heads so badly they won't fit into the shell holder when handloading. Back the powder charge down or switch powders, maybe even primers.

Another way to correct CHS is to alter the AR's timing. Switch to a heavier buffer spring, weight the buffer or install an adjustable gas block—or any combination thereof. However, don't assume that because certain loads show no case-head swipe in one AR, they will perform the same in another. The length/size of the gas tube and the size of the gas port can be different. Buffer spring strength and buffer weight can vary, too.

Good article MeltingFeather
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Old 05-23-2018, 12:43 PM   #32
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I would try some different manufactures ammo in the gun and see how it shoots that. Make sure everything is tight on the scope and see how it groups different ammo. I don't think you have enough info to say something is wrong with the gun yet IMO.
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Old 05-23-2018, 09:07 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wade _s View Post
Just FYI DPMS told me that my rifle can shoot both .308win and 7.62X51 ammunition. Since they actually manufactured the rifle, I think I will take their word over yours. You canít believe everything you read on the internet.


Good for you. If you choose not to believe what is well known then good luck to you.

There is a difference in pressures and chambers no matter what some yahoo told you at DPMS.


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Old 05-24-2018, 07:48 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
Good for you. If you choose not to believe what is well known then good luck to you.

There is a difference in pressures and chambers no matter what some yahoo told you at DPMS.


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I never mentioned pressures or chambers. I simply stated that in my DPMS Oracle marked 7.62X51 the manufacturer told me, in writing, that it is ok to shoot both calibers through the gun. Maybe DPMS cuts their chambers so that you can shoot both calibers in the LR-308 despite what the barrel says...
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:58 AM   #35
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I went to the gun shop yesterday.
I dropped it off so the gunsmith can give it the once over
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Old 05-31-2018, 02:21 PM   #36
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Gunsmith called me.
I'd dropped the gun a while back. Sight think much of it.
Says my gas block is loose and since I don't have free float handguards things are moving. That's also what was causing my FTE malfunctions.
He says I did it an adjustable gas block and a free float hand guard.
I want to get a Silencer, someday.
I'll also be getting my Bog Pod Tripod from Perow sometime in the near near future.

I'd like to get an 18-20" match grade barrel for it too.

All these upgrades will be @ $600.

I might just replace the gas block & trade it for a bolt rifle. Than buy a Savage MSR, put a red dot on it till I can get $ saved to buy my Thermal...

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Old 05-31-2018, 03:46 PM   #37
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Quote:
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Gunsmith called me.
This the same smith that diagnosed the problem as soft Hornady brass?
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:19 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
This the same smith that diagnosed the problem as soft Hornady brass?
Yep.

Another buddy shot 6 rounds of that ammo out of his Delton AR10. He said it had the same marks after he shot it
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Old 06-01-2018, 05:13 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainsling View Post
Hornady Superformance is CRAP.
Yep, neither my .257roberts or 300WM like it at all.
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Old 06-01-2018, 06:11 PM   #40
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Well.
I'm going all in on this rifle.
I want to love it. I don't.

I've decided to change out a few parts.
Hoping I'm not putting lipstick on a boar hog.

18" DSG Arms . 308 Win barrel with 1:10 twist
416R stainless

Adjustable gas block

SLR? 15" Free Float handguard. MLok I believe.
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:07 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
Well.
I'm going all in on this rifle.
I want to love it. I don't.

I've decided to change out a few parts.
Hoping I'm not putting lipstick on a boar hog.

18" DSG Arms . 308 Win barrel with 1:10 twist
416R stainless

Adjustable gas block

SLR? 15" Free Float handguard. MLok I believe.
I would have tried a different brand ammo before I spend all tha money.
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:00 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainsling View Post
I would have tried a different brand ammo before I spend all tha money.

I agree!!

I was going to do the hand guard first, later the barrel.

Since the barrel nut needs to be removed to do both I decided to both now.
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:52 PM   #43
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Couple photos of the finished rifle
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Old 06-08-2018, 02:12 PM   #44
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So what did you have done to it?


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Old 06-08-2018, 02:18 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
So what did you have done to it?


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushbutton2 View Post
Well.
I'm going all in on this rifle.
I want to love it. I don't.

I've decided to change out a few parts.
Hoping I'm not putting lipstick on a boar hog.

18" DSG Arms . 308 Win barrel with 1:10 twist
416R stainless

Adjustable gas block

SLR? 15" Free Float handguard. MLok I believe.
Looks good... hope you love it.
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Old 06-08-2018, 03:41 PM   #46
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Quote:
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So what did you have done to it?


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This
Quote:
Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
Looks good... hope you love it.
Me too.
This is officially the most expensive rifle I've ever owned.

I probably could have got in on that APR TBH special or really close to it....
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Old 06-08-2018, 03:43 PM   #47
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Hunt In: Madison and Colorado County
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Did it fix the issues?
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:33 PM   #48
Pushbutton2
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Van,TX
Hunt In: Mc Culloch County since 2015 Van Zandt County since 2017
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Originally Posted by Stan R View Post
Did it fix the issues?
Haven't been to the range yet.
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:36 PM   #49
Pushbutton2
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Van,TX
Hunt In: Mc Culloch County since 2015 Van Zandt County since 2017
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The SLR Handguards were out of stock.
So he put a Midwest Industries one on there.
He also but a BCM Gunfighter gas buster charging handle on there as well
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:50 PM   #50
Lone_Wolf
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Hunt In: Bosque Hill McLennan Navarro Counties
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearintex View Post
Is the gun chambered for 308 or 7.62 x 51?

I second the superformance being crap. I've tried 3 different calibers, none shot worth a flip. 243, 7-08 and 6.5CM. My CM is a 1/2 minute gun with Hornady black ammo, it turns into a 2 minute gun with the superformance.
Hmmm....my A-bolt in 22-250 will shoot a ragged hole at 100yds with the superformance. Haven't tried the superformance in my 308 yet. Federal Premium seam to work just fine for now.
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