Tracking dogs.........questions....long.....

[flyby]

Don't want to get involved in the other threads. Troup....very sorry for your loss and hope the suspect gets everything he deserves....his actions speak louder than words.

Being LE K9, and having very little experience with deer tracking (or any other wildlife tracking) dogs, I have a few questions.

In LE tracking dogs, they are always on a long line. To me, a wildlife tracking dog is used to find a downed, or mortally wounded game animal. It seems a long line for tracking would be the best option. If the animal is jumped, I would think the best thing to do would be to back out and give the animal time to die (assuming it's mortally wounded). Go back 6-8 hours later and start again from where it was last seen. Having a loose dog that breaks and is not in control of the handler to chase the jumped animal wherever it decides to run does not seem ethical to me. Granted, a high fence property may change the situation in some respects, but in my mind the dog is used to locate a dead game animal or mortally wounded game animal, not chase and bay an animal that has "a wound".

I've seen on the other thread a few comments that the dog can determine things about the animal. I disagree. The dog may be able to determine if the animal is bleeding, but that does not indicate a mortal wound. I also saw where one person suggested the dog can't chase down a deer that's not mortally wounded, but that has been refuted successfully.

I guess in my mind, a tracking dog (for hunting) is used to locate a downed, or mortally wounded, game animal. In that case, why would the dog ever be released off lead to chase and bay? Remember, I've been handling dogs in LE for 10 years, I know how a long line can get in the way in thick brush, but I still don't see the need to release a dog to chase an animal. If it's "mortally wounded" and you jump it, why not back out and give it time?

I think we would all agree a wounded animal, when being chased, is more likely to run farther and cross property lines than one that is not being chased.

Just my thoughts.

[hully1029]

Watching.

[KR-oldmexico]

Why start another thread about the same **** that's been discussed on another one! To each there own and everything we are doing is ethical and within the law! Thanks for your service and be safe!

[TP3]

Aw c'mon man.

[KR-oldmexico]

Aw man.

LMAO exactly

[flyby]

Why start another thread about the same **** that's been discussed on another one! To each there own and everything we are doing is ethical and within the law! Thanks for your service and be safe!

Why start cursing about a legitimate question that hasn't been asked or answered in previous threads? I never said tracking dogs are not ethical or legal. If you don't want to contribute hit the back button.

[flyby]

Short version of my question is, why would you release a dog off lead to chase down a wounded deer, knowing that the deer will run a lot further and possibly cross property lines that you can't legally cross without permission, having no control over the dog? Why not track on lead and back out if you jump the deer and give him time to expire?

I understand many of the trackers are requiring permission from adjacent landowners prior to tracking, and that's great, but it still seems to me it would be more humane to let the deer lay down and die than to be chased to exhaustion and bayed prior to being put down.

Not questioning the law or ethics, just maybe different moral values. All new to me.

[GD47]

Ok it's the same as duck hunting if you have a winged bird do you not send the dog????

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[Drycreek3189]

Short version of my question is, why would you release a dog off lead to chase down a wounded deer, knowing that the deer will run a lot further and possibly cross property lines that you can't legally cross without permission, having no control over the dog? Why not track on lead and back out if you jump the deer and give him time to expire?

I understand many of the trackers are requiring permission from adjacent landowners prior to tracking, and that's great, but it still seems to me it would be more humane to let the deer lay down and die than to be chased to exhaustion and bayed prior to being put down.

Not questioning the law or ethics, just maybe different moral values. All new to me.

I agree with your premise. I said in the other thread that my dog is always on a 25' lead. He tracks slow, so I can keep up with him. Sometimes I have to drop it to go around something but I catch up to him. I have pulled him off of two tracks, one because I knew the deer wasn't mortally wounded from evidence at the scene, another was a mistake I shouldn't have made because my buddy said the hog went in the woods "here", and it actually went in the woods "there". Buzzards proved Sarge was correct the next day. My bad ! I should have let him alone, but I only track for myself or friends, so I can make mistakes and it's ok.

[Hocks & horns]

Short version of my question is, why would you release a dog off lead to chase down a wounded deer, knowing that the deer will run a lot further and possibly cross property lines that you can't legally cross without permission, having no control over the dog? Why not track on lead and back out if you jump the deer and give him time to expire?

I understand many of the trackers are requiring permission from adjacent landowners prior to tracking, and that's great, but it still seems to me it would be more humane to let the deer lay down and die than to be chased to exhaustion and bayed prior to being put down.

Not questioning the law or ethics, just maybe different moral values. All new to me.

I've put a dog on deer 15-20 hrs later only to find the deer still alive. The deer single lung or gut shot coughing blood. Only allowing you to get 100yds. The dog can hold that deer long enough for a shot. If the dog was on lead are you going to keep coming back every 6 hrs until the deer is finally dead or just bay and shoot him? I've called dogs off after a 20 hr track and the deer jumped a fence gotten permission and tracked, bay and shot the deer 30hrs later. On a lead you might find the deer but he can still keep going. If you know how to use a collar and have a trained dog you can keep the dog in check. Yeah your dog might get across a fence but he's not there long and dang sure shouldn't be shot.

[Lawhunter]

Ok it's the same as duck hunting if you have a winged bird do you not send the dog????

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Does your dog chase ducks that fly?

[2B4Him]

I know nothing about tracking with dogs whatsoever, probably disqualifying me from providing any input.
However, based on simple walking a dog on a relatively short leash, it is so frustrating to have to keep dealing with obstacles (tree, rock, etc.) that the dog goes around on one side while I'm on the other - I can only imagine in the woods tracking a scent (with the doge going back and forth) how frustrating it would be to keep getting your dog untangled from obstacles. It would seem that the longer the lead, the more problems.

[GD47]

Does your dog chase ducks that fly?

Not sure is the same.....

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[flyby]

Ok it's the same as duck hunting if you have a winged bird do you not send the dog????

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Umm....yeah, not the same. I've done a bit of duck hunting with a dog.

I agree with your premise. I said in the other thread that my dog is always on a 25' lead. He tracks slow, so I can keep up with him. Sometimes I have to drop it to go around something but I catch up to him. I have pulled him off of two tracks, one because I knew the deer wasn't mortally wounded from evidence at the scene, another was a mistake I shouldn't have made because my buddy said the hog went in the woods "here", and it actually went in the woods "there". Buzzards proved Sarge was correct the next day. My bad ! I should have let him alone, but I only track for myself or friends, so I can make mistakes and it's ok.

And this I like.

I've put a dog on deer 15-20 hrs later only to find the deer still alive. The deer single lung or gut shot coughing blood. Only allowing you to get 100yds. The dog can hold that deer long enough for a shot. If the dog was on lead are you going to keep coming back every 6 hrs until the deer is finally dead or just bay and shoot him? I've called dogs off after a 20 hr track and the deer jumped a fence gotten permission and tracked, bay and shot the deer 30hrs later. On a lead you might find the deer but he can still keep going. If you know how to use a collar and have a trained dog you can keep the dog in check. Yeah your dog might get across a fence but he's not there long and dang sure shouldn't be shot.

And this is the kind of input I'm looking for. It sounds like you have trained your dogs well and can recall them when necessary. I applaud that and have no issues with your reply. I saw a couple replies on the other thread where people said they essentially had no control of their dog once it jumped the deer. That statement alone tells me the dog needs to be on lead if not on a high fence property. Thanks for the input, at least this post was helpful in understanding the issue.

I know nothing about tracking with dogs whatsoever, probably disqualifying me from providing any input.
However, based on simple walking a dog on a relatively short leash, it is so frustrating to have to keep dealing with obstacles ( atree, rock, etc.) that the dog goes around on one side while I'm on the other - I can only imagine in the woods tracking a scent (with the doge going back and forth) how frustrating it would be to keep getting your dog untangled from obstacles. It would seem that the longer the lead, the more problems.

Most of my tracking is on a 15' lead, and yes, it can cause issues in the trees/brush. That's an experience issue, and you need to learn lead control. Often when the dog goes around something you drop the lead and pick up on the other side, but the dog is still under control.

[cantexduck]

You can not keep up with a dog in brush that tracks head up. The purpose of off lead is to allow the dog to work at its speed , not yours . If the animal is jumped the dog should be free to bay it.