Evidently the creepy **** lawyer is running for president in 2020

[batmaninja]

This is a tough one for the left.

[muzzlebrake]

Come to think of it, the modern Democratic Party more resembles a cult than a political party.

More like vermin. Not much different than the coons that target your feeders

[JLivi1224]

In this thread you have -

1. Made a flawed argument for credibility because the WaPo published a random op-ed from some graduate student
OP ED or not it was published by a very left wing source
2. Linked a week old op-ed written by said graduate student which discusses results that have significantly changed since the op-ed was written
and the way in which some of these elections were decided are under very suspicious circumstances, no?
3. Chuckled at the historical reality of the midterm election relative to Democrat performances in previous midterms
I was chuckling at you pointing out partisanship, while you yourself clearly have partisan leanings.
4. Dismissed the measurable voting differences between the 2016 and 2018 congressional elections in suburban swing districts, which gave Democrats the House
I was not dismissive of this in any way. I am aware of the results. Just because I did not address it does not mean I was intentionally dismissive of the facts. I quite honestly am just busy. However you have motivated me to respond at length now.
5. Made a personal partisan declaration as to why the GOP lost the House without providing any evidence or analysis to support the claimI will not be providing evidence on points that are considered fact by the vast majority or reasonable folks.
6. Dismissed the fact that college educated women overwhelming supported Democrats 9 to 1 in key suburban swing districts, including three districts in Texas, marking a significant change from 2016 that is widely attributed to TrumpAgain, Not dismissive. I understand how the college educated women voted. I just happen to believe the views leading to this are short sided. (partisan?, perhaps. Or just a differing opinion that happens to fall relatively in line with the conservative platform.
7. Made petty personal insults in lieu of respectable rebuttal of the above mentioned points While i think i toed the line of "insult", i do apologize for that.

Now, lets forget about the above because we clearly will not agree. Below, you make some good points IMO.

Given all that, what am I supposed to think?

Why do dems fight voter ID laws so hard?
I believe a primary reason is because many of their voters are poorly educated voters from the lowest economic class and showing up with a valid ID is another hurdle for them to clear. I personally support voter ID laws, but I also don't think it's as big of a deal as conservatives make it out to be.
this is a talking point of the left that is just not true!
How is it harder for lower economic class to obtain an ID. Can you please explain?
Do you not think voters should have to show citizenship?
I think voters should have to present a valid ID that can be associated with their voter registration....valid driver's license, state issued ID, passport, military ID. Agreed.

Of nearly 6,000 votes found in GA gubernatorial, over 90% of the votes were for Abrams in an otherwise nearly 50/50 race - thoughts?
I'm not following the drama in GA, as I have no doubt Kemp will be declared the winner. Agreed, as the lead is insurmountable IMO. That said, take a few and look into this.

Would you consider yourself conservative, liberal, centrist, other?
Centrist. Generally speaking, economically conservative and socially moderate. I loathe the socialists and race baiters on the left. I loathe the theocrats, dominionists and xenophobes on the right. I think the left is a disaster on immigration. I think the right is a disaster on the environment and healthcare. I think the left is addicted to entitlements. I think the right is addicted to military spending. I think both are a disaster on spending and debt. To the socialists and race baiters, agreed. I think "xenophobe" has become a hot word for the left. I can only speak for myslef and those I know, but we have no fear of people from other countries.
we are all for immigration - LEGALLY. We are suspicious of Islam, with good reason. Just read the Quran. The right is detrimental to healthcare?
have you seen what OBAMACARE did to premiums?!. Do you believe that healthcare is a human right? I would disagree with that wholeheartedly. I agree that the left is addicted to entitlements, and that is my point when claiming that "free stuff" swayed the votes and helped lead to the House swing. That said, thank you for agreeing with my point abov. And i agree that both are terrible on spending and budget. You must run a country like a business, or just like your family. you cannot spend more than you make, agreed?

Why is it you think college educated voters are leaning left?
Generally speaking...I think college educated voters are more socially moderate or liberal. I think they are also more pragmatic in that they realize the need for political compromise in a nation where about 30% of people are conservative, about 30% are liberal and about 40% are somewhere in the middle. They do not want Republicans legislating from the Bible. They want LGBTQ people left alone. They want the environment cared for. They want science considered and respected. They are empathetic. They want other people to be able to get affordable healthcare. They understand a good education is key to upward mobility and self reliance and they want all children to have access to one. On the other hand, they don't like high taxes, crime, corruption and lawlessness, but they are generally willing to pay when government works well. There are certainly other factors, but those are some.

I would say that the college education system has been indoctrinating student for a long time now. THat may seem extreme to someone with your views, but i truly believe that.
IMO, the education system has been key in the socialist shift in this country, and is at the core of the socialist gameplan. As for the Bible, i know you are not a believer from previous posts, but this country, whether you like it or not was founded on Judeau Christian values, and THAT is what has made this country so great. THAT is what has set us apart from other nations that have not become what the US has become. Until, this country returns to that, we will continue this downhill slide, IMHO. LGBTQ (what the hell is the Q by the way?) - govt should stay completely out of peoples homes and bedrooms, period. Science should be respected, where respect is due - that does not include global warming. Where do you stand on that? Despite whast a lot of non believers think, Christ and science can, and do, coexist.


let me add : upon further reflection I apologize for being condescending and disrespectful in an earlier post. I truly am always open to having my mind changed and like hearing ng other political viewpoints. No matter how wrong they may be. .

[Death from Above]

Tribalism...there, I said it 1st.

Just wanted it noted that i used tribalism 1st on this thread...i feel like i have arrived to superior enlightenment.

[Vermin93]

Cults have historically been chalk full of college educated men AND women. It's interesting that most "successful" cults preach acceptance, tolerance, inclusion, and the promise of a utopian world. Sound familiar?

Come to think of it, the modern Democratic Party more resembles a cult than a political party.

Were these college educated suburbanites cult members when they voted Trump / GOP in 2016, or just after they grew weary of Trumpism and voted Democrat last week?

[Ironman]

Were these college educated suburbanites cult members when they voted Trump / GOP in 2016, or just after they grew weary of Trumpism and voted Democrat last week?

They were not, nor have ever been right leaning. They are the total opposite, and you know it. Scientology comes to mind. Show me one member of that cult that has right leanings in any way.

[Vermin93]

They were not, nor have ever been right leaning. They are the total opposite, and you know it. Scientology comes to mind. Show me one member of that cult that has right leanings in any way.

You seem to shoot from the hip a lot and don't research some of your positions. Data clearly shows that many suburbs have a relatively even mix of Democrat and Republican leaning voters, many of whom are political moderates who could go either way in an election depending on the situation and the candidates. That's why both parties invest heavily there to win. Many of these suburban districts were in GOP hands for several years, which is all the proof one needs to know that there are/were a significant number of right leaning voters there.

Your Scientology comment may be the most ridiculously irrelevant thing I've read here this year.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/...itical-issues/

[Ironman]

You seem to shoot from the hip a lot and don't research some of your positions. Data clearly shows that many suburbs have a relatively even mix of Democrat and Republican leaning voters, many of whom are political moderates who could go either way in an election depending on the situation and the candidates. That's why both parties invest heavily there to win. Many of these suburban districts were in GOP hands for several years, which is all the proof one needs to know that there are/were a significant number of right leaning voters there.

Your Scientology comment may be the most ridiculously irrelevant thing I've read here this year.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/...itical-issues/

We've already covered that with the "repulsed by the style of Donald J. Trump"

That has nothing to do with Trumps pro American policies.

As far as Scientology goes, the parallels with the Democratic Party are staggering.

[muzzlebrake]

And so you don't forget, 99.9% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[Vermin93]

We've already covered that with the "repulsed by the style of Donald J. Trump"

That has nothing to do with Trumps pro American policies.

As far as Scientology goes, the parallels with the Democratic Party are staggering.

You made a broad based assertion. The data shows it was absurd. Your rebuttal is one quote from an editorial piece and an attempted analogy with a bizarre religion. You're just being lazy.

[Ironman]

You made a broad based assertion. The data shows it was absurd. Your rebuttal is one quote from an editorial piece and an attempted analogy with a bizarre religion. You're just being lazy.

A quote from an editorial piece in which you presented in order to prove you were right. Scientology is no religion. Neither was the People's Temple that was chocked full of educated democrats. Go figure.

[Vermin93]

A quote from an editorial piece in which you presented in order to prove you were right. Scientology is no religion. Neither was the People's Temple that was chocked full of educated democrats. Go figure.

I presented multiple sources of information in support of my argument. You were lazy and focused on 5 words and a name.

Scientologists call Scientology a religion and the Government recognizes it as a religion for tax purposes. I find the whole thing absurd and couldn't care less whether you call it a religion or not.

Frankly, I feel like I'm arguing with a teenager. Your easily disprovable declarations and oversimplifications don't enable a productive conversation.

Isaac Asimov comes to mind...

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"

[Ironman]

I presented multiple sources of information in support of my argument. You were lazy and focused on 5 words and a name.

Scientologists call Scientology a religion and the Government recognizes it as a religion for tax purposes. I find the whole thing absurd and couldn't care less whether you call it a religion or not.

Frankly, I feel like I'm arguing with a teenager. Your easily disprovable declarations and oversimplifications don't enable a productive conversation.

Isaac Asimov comes to mind...

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"

Lol! So you believe what you are told. That's awesome!

[JLivi1224]

Guys I feel like I got lost in the shuffle. I wanna play.

[Landrover]

Good dialogue guys. No perfect solution but it is definitely evolving. Enjoy the ride as LIFE is truly SHORT and being angry to the left or right is wasteful at best!

It’s hard to be wrong when you call out partisan absurdities that the right wing and left wing hurl at each other.

………...and this is where the issues lie! Both extremities are all about red meat. Nothing more or nothing less.

Are you always this arrogant? I’m sorry you have those insecurities. You assume I’m incapable of having an intelligent, political debate with you because I’m some knuckle dragging, incestual, backwoods Trump supporter? Rather presumptuous of you, no?
You can point to whatever you would like. At the end of the day, both parties are culpable in underhanded methods to influence elections. Do you have an opinion on what’s gone on in Florida? That’s utter corruption, and if you say otherwise than clearly your partisanship is showing. The latest is they are trying to actively change the law regarding matching signatures and other information. Rather straight forward don’t you think? Broward county mysteriously missed the deadline by 2 minutes. Just so happens their results showed SCOTT actually increasing his lead.

Enlighten me with your superior knowledge, please.

Why do dems fight voter ID laws so hard?
Do you not think voters should have to show citizenship?
Of nearly 6,000 votes found in GA gubernatorial, over 90% of the votes were for Abrams in an otherwise nearly 50/50 race - thoughts?
Would you consider yourself conservative, liberal, centrist, other?
Why is it you think college educated voters are leaning left?

To be clear, I am not a huge fan of Trump’s style, hyperbole, etc. I think he’s often hurting himself with some of the mud slinging. He should be focused on the facts. The numbers. Economy, unemployment, growth etc. I’m thrilled to leave the partisanship, bias and emotion out of this.

And that is a winning statement on so many levels! Regrettably, many still don't see it very clearly. But, the pendulum is definitely headed back to a phase of political moderation.

In this thread you have -

1. Made a flawed argument for credibility because the WaPo published a random op-ed from some graduate student
2. Linked a week old op-ed written by said graduate student which discusses results that have significantly changed since the op-ed was written
3. Chuckled at the historical reality of the midterm election relative to Democrat performances in previous midterms
4. Dismissed the measurable voting differences between the 2016 and 2018 congressional elections in suburban swing districts, which gave Democrats the House
5. Made a personal partisan declaration as to why the GOP lost the House without providing any evidence or analysis to support the claim
6. Dismissed the fact that college educated women overwhelming supported Democrats 9 to 1 in key suburban swing districts, including three districts in Texas, marking a significant change from 2016 that is widely attributed to Trump
7. Made petty personal insults in lieu of respectable rebuttal of the above mentioned points

Given all that, what am I supposed to think?

Why do dems fight voter ID laws so hard?
I believe a primary reason is because many of their voters are poorly educated voters from the lowest economic class and showing up with a valid ID is another hurdle for them to clear. I personally support voter ID laws, but I also don't think it's as big of a deal as conservatives make it out to be.

Do you not think voters should have to show citizenship?
I think voters should have to present a valid ID that can be associated with their voter registration....valid driver's license, state issued ID, passport, military ID.

Of nearly 6,000 votes found in GA gubernatorial, over 90% of the votes were for Abrams in an otherwise nearly 50/50 race - thoughts?
I'm not following the drama in GA, as I have no doubt Kemp will be declared the winner.

Would you consider yourself conservative, liberal, centrist, other?
Centrist. Generally speaking, economically conservative and socially moderate. I loathe the socialists and race baiters on the left. I loathe the theocrats, dominionists and xenophobes on the right. I think the left is a disaster on immigration. I think the right is a disaster on the environment and healthcare. I think the left is addicted to entitlements. I think the right is addicted to military spending. I think both are a disaster on spending and debt.

Why is it you think college educated voters are leaning left?
Generally speaking...I think college educated voters are more socially moderate or liberal. I think they are also more pragmatic in that they realize the need for political compromise in a nation where about 30% of people are conservative, about 30% are liberal and about 40% are somewhere in the middle. They do not want Republicans legislating from the Bible. They want LGBTQ people left alone. They want the environment cared for. They want science considered and respected. They are empathetic. They want other people to be able to get affordable healthcare. They understand a good education is key to upward mobility and self reliance and they want all children to have access to one. On the other hand, they don't like high taxes, crime, corruption and lawlessness, but they are generally willing to pay when government works well. There are certainly other factors, but those are some.

Yep, not much I can add.
Simply stepping back from what I hear consistently on the talk radio and see on goofball news stations I actually observed OUR America. It has really helped me over the last 10 years.