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Old 06-27-2017, 03:06 PM   #51
Russ79
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Why can't they just repeal Obamacare and let everyone go back to doing what they were doing before. If they have to do anything, set up pools for folks with pre-existing conditions and those that need life sustaining meds that are too expensive to buy, and then deal with the folks that are too poor to afford free market health insurance. Those that can afford it but choose not to buy it, like my brother who owns three vehicles, two homes, and two Harley's have payment plans set up for doctor and hospital visits to the point of even garnishing wages if need be.
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Old 06-27-2017, 03:19 PM   #52
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You argue "states right" right up to the point of reality that OBAMACARE IS FEDERAL!

You started another healthcare thread to hook an argument and you got it. We all know. You make more money with Obamacare. That's great. Premiums are up. That screws everyone else.

Remove the state boundaries, federal mandate, and lobbyists and let the free market work

O wait, you'll make less money. So that's out.

I don't make money off Obamacare
I make money off diseases
As long as there are people with diseases I will be paid to count them and any treatments they receive.

If Obamacare went away and they removed state lines Aetna & Cigna would still retain me to analyze their piece structures now that they don't have to deal with individual state pricing regulations.
They'd still want to know how the fat people in San Antonio will effect life expectancy rates once included with the healthy people from Santa Barbara.

I get paid from disease.
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Old 06-27-2017, 03:20 PM   #53
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I wonder if we had these same debates when we forced everyone to go to school and forced everyone to help pay for it even if you didn't use it (home school)
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Old 06-27-2017, 03:28 PM   #54
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I wonder if we had these same debates when we forced everyone to go to school and forced everyone to help pay for it even if you didn't use it (home school)
So collect health insurance premiums through property taxes?
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Old 06-27-2017, 03:59 PM   #55
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So collect health insurance premiums through property taxes?
sales tax wouldnt be a bad idea

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
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Old 06-27-2017, 04:19 PM   #56
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You're right about no easy solution, it's a hot mess and going to continue to get messier.

Social welfare in it's current state is not sustainable. Somehow, someway accountability needs to be encouraged and rewarded.
unfortunatly, lack of accountability is rewarded...to get votes and to keep power over a segment of the population. No one (currently) want to loose that power
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Old 06-27-2017, 04:40 PM   #57
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I think you have it backwards. It HAS become very expensive BECAUSE of government intervention. And the "children" argument from the left is irony at its finest.
You have no idea how health insurance works.

Insurance costs have skyrocketed because hospitals but $150 instant thermometers now instead of using those 50cent thermometers your grandma used.
That's a 300 fold price increase on thermometers alone.

They now have $5,000 motorized wheelchairs that they must pay for.
Before they had the fifty dollar one you pushed yourself.

Inflation
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Old 06-27-2017, 04:44 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Russ79 View Post
Why can't they just repeal Obamacare and let everyone go back to doing what they were doing before. If they have to do anything, set up pools for folks with pre-existing conditions and those that need life sustaining meds that are too expensive to buy, and then deal with the folks that are too poor to afford free market health insurance. Those that can afford it but choose not to buy it, like my brother who owns three vehicles, two homes, and two Harley's have payment plans set up for doctor and hospital visits to the point of even garnishing wages if need be.
Because what they are not saying in public is that Obamacare is actually a good thing that's why they wasted seven years not trying to come up with a solution

Obama even called them out When he was in office
He said if y'all have a better plan SHOW ME
GOP never stepped up
Now 6years later they still have their thumbs up their...
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Old 06-27-2017, 04:49 PM   #59
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Because what they are not saying in public is that Obamacare is actually a good thing that's why they wasted seven years not trying to come up with a solution

Obama even called them out When he was in office
He said if y'all have a better plan SHOW ME
GOP never stepped up
Now 6years later they still have their thumbs up their...
Why is ocare such a good thing?
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Old 06-27-2017, 05:11 PM   #60
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Inflation
Is that why college tuition went up, too pay more for books and teachers or was it the government getting in to the student loan business ?
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Old 06-27-2017, 05:17 PM   #61
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Why is ocare such a good thing?
Ask the GOP members that you voted for that are trying to save so much of Obamacare.

You're paying them to keep Obamacare alive
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Old 06-27-2017, 05:22 PM   #62
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Is that why college tuition went up, too pay more for books and teachers or was it the government getting in to the student loan business ?
Schools built billion dollar research labs
Have you seen dorms today vs 20 years ago?
40 yrs ago?

Professors want to be paid $150k a year.

It's an arms race.
Private schools like Rice, SMU and Tulane all have HIGH tuitions and they don't depend on govt loans.
Most of their students come from affluent families that don't get govt finaid

They need to compete with Harvard, MIT and Yale that have HUGE endowments.

How much did you pay for your math book in college?
Mine was about $60 and I could sell it at the end of the course for $20 to be used by someone else.

Do you know these days you pay $125 for a "e-code" in order to submit your homework and that code can only used ONCE
No recycling
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Old 06-27-2017, 05:24 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
You have no idea how health insurance works.

Insurance costs have skyrocketed because hospitals but $150 instant thermometers now instead of using those 50cent thermometers your grandma used.
That's a 300 fold price increase on thermometers alone.

They now have $5,000 motorized wheelchairs that they must pay for.
Before they had the fifty dollar one you pushed yourself.

Inflation
So inflation is your excuse for higher insurance premiums? Obviously it's not me that doesn't understand.
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Old 06-27-2017, 05:36 PM   #64
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So inflation is your excuse for higher insurance premiums? Obviously it's not me that doesn't understand.
I just gave an example of the ITEMS NEED FOR MEDICAL CARE have greatly increased
Do you have any idea how much a ROM-HIL hospital bed costs today versus in 1980?

those costs are passed on to the consumer who is covered by the health insurance company that absorbs most of that cost via premiums

lets say a AIDS cure came out next month and it costs $400k per year for the medicine
do you know how many $400k bills these insurance companies will need to start doling out?
MILLIONS
then those of us who do not have aids our premiums will SKYROCKET in order to cover all of these AIDS patients new $400k medications!

That's a veeerrryy simple version of how this works

It's not mainly driven by illegals in the ER
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Old 06-27-2017, 05:37 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
Private schools like Rice, SMU and Tulane all have HIGH tuitions and they don't depend on govt loans.
I am not trying to get into the mud with you on this but you are being pretty daft if you dont think the government is in the student loan business. Even at fancy private schools. Say like the Federal Family Education Loan (FFEL) Program

Again. If these government backed loans arent available to kids that arent old enough to drink, but you know can go into $100,000 of debt, where do you think they would go to school?
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Old 06-27-2017, 05:39 PM   #66
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So inflation is your excuse for higher insurance premiums? Obviously it's not me that doesn't understand.
this was the only wheelchair available 40 years ago and it was $100 in today's dollars:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Drive-Med...&wl13=&veh=sem



This is what insurance companies are having to pay for now $4,000:

http://www.spinlife.com/Pride-Jazzy-...aign=610148043
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Old 06-27-2017, 05:41 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
I just gave an example of the ITEMS NEED FOR MEDICAL CARE have greatly increased
Do you have any idea how much a ROM-HIL hospital bed costs today versus in 1980?

those costs are passed on to the consumer who is covered by the health insurance company that absorbs most of that cost via premiums

lets say a AIDS cure came out next month and it costs $400k per year for the medicine
do you know how many $400k bills these insurance companies will need to start doling out?
MILLIONS
then those of us who do not have aids our premiums will SKYROCKET in order to cover all of these AIDS patients new $400k medications!

That's a veeerrryy simple version of how this works

It's not mainly driven by illegals in the ER
I'm not talking about the 80's. I'm talking about the insurance premiums and deductibles since ACA passed. Now what the hell does that have to do with thermometers?
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Old 06-27-2017, 05:43 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
this was the only wheelchair available 40 years ago and it was $100 in today's dollars:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Drive-Med...&wl13=&veh=sem



This is what insurance companies are having to pay for now $4,000:

http://www.spinlife.com/Pride-Jazzy-...aign=610148043
See my post above.
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Old 06-27-2017, 05:53 PM   #69
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Ask the GOP members that you voted for that are trying to save so much of Obamacare.

You're paying them to keep Obamacare alive
You made the statement that Ocare is good and I asked You why it's good. So, once again why is Ocare so good?
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Old 06-27-2017, 06:03 PM   #70
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You made the statement that Ocare is good and I asked You why it's good. So, once again why is Ocare so good?
Lol! That's ok, I said insurance premiums were higher because of government intervention, and now I'm getting a lesson in economic inflation. Go figure.
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:29 PM   #71
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Lol! That's ok, I said insurance premiums were higher because of government intervention, and now I'm getting a lesson in economic inflation. Go figure.
You know what lives under bridges that does not need healthcare?
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:34 AM   #72
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You made the statement that Ocare is good and I asked You why it's good. So, once again why is Ocare so good?
https://nyti.ms/2tlZD9e

One in three in Kentucky are on Obamacare
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:01 AM   #73
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Anybody that believes O-care was created to benefit poor, uninsured peeps is either delusional or smoking crack. O-care was lobbyist driven so more money could be "given away" by government (ACTUALLY TAX PAYERS) to line the pockets of the coorperations whom in turn pay lobbyist.

You want to solve this country's welfare society, institute a law that prohibits anybody on any type of government assistance from voting.
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:22 AM   #74
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Making healthcare affordable isn't about making sure everyone is insured, it needs to be about getting the costs of all the services down. There in lies two problems.

1) Big pharma, hospital CEOs, doctors are in no way going to push to drive down there costs. A free enterprise healthcare system would yield more affordable services, more affordable insurance. But a free enterprise system would yield WAY too much uncertainty for the above listed, lobby money well spent to keep the government from saying the real problem in costs spiraling out of control.

2) Frivolous lawsuits that drive costs. When someone has forty years of bad choices that led them to end up with heart disease in a family that has a history of it already and they sue every one under the sun because they didn't feel the cholesterol medicine they took off and on for 9 months cured them. These kind of suits drive malpractice insurance costs and total costs in general. It's like software piracy, we're all going to pay a little extra for someone else trying to buck the system. And, congress isn't going to do a thing about this because I imagine 2/3 of them made a living with bull*&*( lawsuits.
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Old 06-29-2017, 07:05 AM   #75
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You want to solve this country's welfare society, institute a law that prohibits anybody on any type of government assistance from voting.
Be careful for what you ask for
You never know where you'll end up in life
Some TBHrs have been on welfare as grown men
Food stamps

Also, how do you Define govt welfare?
Is it only food stamps?
Or do you extend it to those low cost non credit score based college loans?
What about Farm Aid?

All are forms of govt welfare.
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Old 06-29-2017, 09:54 AM   #76
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https://nyti.ms/2tlZD9e

One in three in Kentucky are on Obamacare
lol.

Clear as day now, insuring a bunch of unemployed, drug addicted hillbillies is good for the whole country.

Thank you for the clarification
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:09 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Pedernal View Post
Anybody that believes O-care was created to benefit poor, uninsured peeps is either delusional or smoking crack. O-care was lobbyist driven so more money could be "given away" by government (ACTUALLY TAX PAYERS) to line the pockets of the coorperations whom in turn pay lobbyist.

You want to solve this country's welfare society, institute a law that prohibits anybody on any type of government assistance from voting.
I'm all about this!! Alexander Fraser was right "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." Maybe just throw a temporary ban on them. Like you can't vote while collecting handouts and for 2 years after... Seems legit to me!!
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:29 AM   #78
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I'm all about this!! Alexander Fraser was right "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." Maybe just throw a temporary ban on them. Like you can't vote while collecting handouts and for 2 years after... Seems legit to me!!
One exception being, we operate under a representative Republic, not a democracy. Be very careful because what you are referring to is confiscating a Constitutionally protected right. If you want to stomp out welfare, tack on a work mandate and a mandatory drug & alcohol test and if found to be in violation, No Mas! That would be the surest way to lose 90% of recipients on day one.

I have known a few people that, due to hard times, resorted to welfare to get them thru. They are people you want to stand and fight with you but they went thru a rough patch financially for one reason or another. In each case, it was no fault of their own. That slope is getting very slippery.
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:47 PM   #79
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lol.

Clear as day now, insuring a bunch of unemployed, drug addicted hillbillies is good for the whole country.

Thank you for the clarification
I guess you don't have any drunk or unemployed folks in your family.

Things are good when they're great
Until....
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:49 PM   #80
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One exception being, we operate under a representative Republic, not a democracy. Be very careful because what you are referring to is confiscating a Constitutionally protected right. If you want to stomp out welfare, tack on a work mandate and a mandatory drug & alcohol test and if found to be in violation, No Mas! That would be the surest way to lose 90% of recipients on day one.

I have known a few people that, due to hard times, resorted to welfare to get them thru. They are people you want to stand and fight with you but they went thru a rough patch financially for one reason or another. In each case, it was no fault of their own. That slope is getting very slippery.
LoL
Ahhhhhh seeeee
Now you're trying to carve out exceptions for your elite little group of friends
Just like politicians do
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:17 PM   #81
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LoL
Ahhhhhh seeeee
Now you're trying to carve out exceptions for your elite little group of friends
Just like politicians do
Are you high right now?? Do you even know what you're saying or are you just trollin'? I have to tell you man, your responses sound drug addled and incoherent.
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:25 PM   #82
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Are you high right now?? Do you even know what you're saying or are you just trollin'? I have to tell you man, your responses sound drug addled and incoherent.
At first y'all say welfare ppl can't vote
But then you say only THESE welfare ppl can't vote
Not my friends that were on welfare because they are good ppl

So many tbhrs family have cancer I guarantee you they have benefited from some sort of govt welfare program
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:03 PM   #83
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I guess you don't have any drunk or unemployed folks in your family.

Things are good when they're great
Until....
A few drunks yes. Unemployed no. I was brought up and I'm bringing my kids up to understand the concept personal responsibility and accountability.
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:13 PM   #84
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At first y'all say welfare ppl can't vote
But then you say only THESE welfare ppl can't vote
Not my friends that were on welfare because they are good ppl

So many tbhrs family have cancer I guarantee you they have benefited from some sort of govt welfare program
Take a breath, Smokey and re-read MY posts. Due to your hazy condition, I will clarify; I NEVER wrote that anyone shouldn't vote. In fact, I wrote that it would be a very slippery slope to confiscate Constitutionally protected rights (i.e. it would be unconstitutional and I'm freakin' against it). As for the people I know whom have been on welfare, their circumstances (as for cancer) is why welfare exists. That and to care for indigent persons who cannot care for themselves. If a family goes bankrupt due to an illness, I have no problem helping out until they get on their feet.

I'm not sure where you live but I can drive 15 miles from my home and at this time of day (1:18 PM), any day, we can see streets and porches chocked FULL of young, healthy hood rats drinking 40s, smoking Swisher Sweets and they aren't working the night shift. That's MY money and yours paying for them to sit on their a*s while we all produce. I'm saying, drug and alcohol test everyone and add a work/employment mandate and you will witness a miracle. Generational welfare babies will rise up and go to work just like the family with cancer. Is that more clearly stated?
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:17 PM   #85
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Take a breath, Smokey and re-read MY posts. Due to your hazy condition, I will clarify; I NEVER wrote that anyone shouldn't vote. In fact, I wrote that it would be a very slippery slope to confiscate Constitutionally protected rights (i.e. it would be unconstitutional and I'm freakin' against it). As for the people I know whom have been on welfare, their circumstances (as for cancer) is why welfare exists. That and to care for indigent persons who cannot care for themselves. If a family goes bankrupt due to an illness, I have no problem helping out until they get on their feet.

I'm not sure where you live but I can drive 15 miles from my home and at this time of day (1:18 PM), any day, we can see streets and porches chocked FULL of young, healthy hood rats drinking 40s, smoking Swisher Sweets and they aren't working the night shift. That's MY money and yours paying for them to sit on their a*s while we all produce. I'm saying, drug and alcohol test everyone and add a work/employment mandate and you will witness a miracle. Generational welfare babies will rise up and go to work just like the family with cancer. Is that more clearly stated?
Preach it brother preach it!

Stop enabling and hold people accountable.
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Old 06-29-2017, 04:58 PM   #86
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Aaaahhhh! The silencing of the trolls. Gotta love it.
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Old 06-29-2017, 05:53 PM   #87
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Take a breath, Smokey and re-read MY posts. Due to your hazy condition, I will clarify; I NEVER wrote that anyone shouldn't vote. In fact, I wrote that it would be a very slippery slope to confiscate Constitutionally protected rights (i.e. it would be unconstitutional and I'm freakin' against it). As for the people I know whom have been on welfare, their circumstances (as for cancer) is why welfare exists. That and to care for indigent persons who cannot care for themselves. If a family goes bankrupt due to an illness, I have no problem helping out until they get on their feet.

I'm not sure where you live but I can drive 15 miles from my home and at this time of day (1:18 PM), any day, we can see streets and porches chocked FULL of young, healthy hood rats drinking 40s, smoking Swisher Sweets and they aren't working the night shift. That's MY money and yours paying for them to sit on their a*s while we all produce. I'm saying, drug and alcohol test everyone and add a work/employment mandate and you will witness a miracle. Generational welfare babies will rise up and go to work just like the family with cancer. Is that more clearly stated?
That for **** sure would go a long way toward "fixin'" it! And well said sir!

...can't wait to hear what "ocare is good man" has to say about that... If we had more like you and fewer like him, we'd all be a LOT better off.
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:13 PM   #88
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Why not just do nothing and let it fail? Make it a legacy. My rate was 200.00 per month prior to Obama's care. Now they are pushing 900.00 per month. Medical providers are requesting an 85% increase for next year.
This little state of just over 2 million people and has over 900k people on medicaid. With no money to pay for the medicaid.
I see no one has responded to your question. It is the very question I have. Let this thing collapse under its own weight. It is close to doing so already. Maybe that is the Republican plan but I doubt they are smart enough to actually do it.

And agree, just repeal it and let things go back to where they were before Obama got involved.
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:49 PM   #89
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I see no one has responded to your question. It is the very question I have. Let this thing collapse under its own weight. It is close to doing so already. Maybe that is the Republican plan but I doubt they are smart enough to actually do it.

And agree, just repeal it and let things go back to where they were before Obama got involved.

Trump actually said they could just let it collapse on its own but it would hurt to many people and he didn't want to do that.

The other reason is when it collapsed the Republicans would take ownership of the collapse. The average voter isn't smart enough to know the difference IMO.
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:50 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by rtp View Post
I see no one has responded to your question. It is the very question I have. Let this thing collapse under its own weight. It is close to doing so already. Maybe that is the Republican plan but I doubt they are smart enough to actually do it.

And agree, just repeal it and let things go back to where they were before Obama got involved.

O-care is such a boondoggle, we just need to drag it out back and put two behind its ear. The problem with letting it collapse is, it is under Gubmint control until that happens AND after. The moderates or, worse yet, liberals will dictate the terms of its dissolution and most likely, its replacement. No replacement is necessary. If Medicaid is brought back to solvency (as described above), these things will balance out.

I look at it like having a loved one addicted to meth. They will bottom out but at what cost? Be responsible and intervene now before it's too late.
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Old 07-01-2017, 03:05 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by SaltwaterSlick View Post
That for **** sure would go a long way toward "fixin'" it! And well said sir!

...can't wait to hear what "ocare is good man" has to say about that... If we had more like you and fewer like him, we'd all be a LOT better off.
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Old 07-10-2017, 06:33 PM   #92
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GOP never expected Trump to win or them never needing to come up with a real solution.
They banked on you diehards to keep voting for them and the only thing they had to do was keep yelling REPEAL and the sheep would keep voting for them and they'd always have a job without actually doing any work.

Look, I didn't expect Donald Trump to win, I think most of my colleagues didn't, so we didn't expect to be in this situation," the Pennsylvania Republican said Wednesday night during a meeting with voters hosted by four network affiliates across his state.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...707-story.html


It's called Resistance Politics.
Not having a plan yourself but only going against the grain for simplicity sake.
Like Trump.
No concrete plan or ideas he just wants to rip everything apart but put nothing in its place.

That's not how you treat bridges.
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Old 07-10-2017, 07:22 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
GOP never expected Trump to win or them never needing to come up with a real solution.
They banked on you diehards to keep voting for them and the only thing they had to do was keep yelling REPEAL and the sheep would keep voting for them and they'd always have a job without actually doing any work.

Look, I didn't expect Donald Trump to win, I think most of my colleagues didn't, so we didn't expect to be in this situation," the Pennsylvania Republican said Wednesday night during a meeting with voters hosted by four network affiliates across his state.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...707-story.html


It's called Resistance Politics.
Not having a plan yourself but only going against the grain for simplicity sake.
Like Trump.
No concrete plan or ideas he just wants to rip everything apart but put nothing in its place.

That's not how you treat bridges.
I really think you live in an alternate reality
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:30 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by flywise View Post
I really think you live in an alternate reality
No kidding.
He says:
"No concrete plan or ideas he [Trump] just wants to rip everything apart but put nothing in its place."

Yet, just prior to that, he quotes:
"Look, I didn't expect Donald Trump to win, I think most of my colleagues didn't, so we didn't expect to be in this situation,"

One side of his face is understanding people weren't ready for the plan Trump has & the other side of his face says Trump has no plan.
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Old 07-10-2017, 09:29 PM   #95
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I wasn't a Trump guy but I'm all for ripping it apart. As for replacing it with something...screw that. We cannot afford it and the fact it is already collapsing is proof positive. Perhaps, if we didn't support 75% of the world financially and militarily, we could have a different discussion. But alas, this is not the case.
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:03 PM   #96
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It is interesting and a little ironic to watch some GOP Senators support poor, rural Trump voters by opposing the Senate bill.

Personally, I hope to see GOP moderates prevail and Ted Cruz fail.

According to the latest Fox News poll on this subject, the majority opinion in this forum is a minority opinion in this country.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxne...layed.amp.html
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:07 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Vermin93 View Post
It is interesting and a little ironic to watch some GOP Senators support poor, rural Trump voters by opposing the Senate bill.

Personally, I hope to see GOP moderates prevail and Ted Cruz fail.

According to the latest Fox News poll on this subject, the majority opinion in this forum is a minority opinion in this country.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxne...layed.amp.html
Why would you purposefully want the Country to suffer and moderates/liberals to prevail??
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:12 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Livin'2hunt View Post
Why would you purposefully want the Country to suffer and moderates/liberals to prevail??

Why would you purposefully want the country to suffer and conservatives to prevail?


See how easy it is to be an ideologue...
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:24 PM   #99
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Why would you purposefully want the Country to suffer and moderates/liberals to prevail??
What does he mean by " support rural Trump voters" ?
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:45 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by flywise View Post
What does he mean by " support rural Trump voters" ?
Well, I've never heard anyone that lives in the country refer to themselves or their home as "rural". I'm guessing, that guy lives in a downtown loft.
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