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Old 07-16-2017, 11:15 AM   #1
Landrover
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Question Bizzaro Incident? Prayers for the family!

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/...cid=spartanntp
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:39 AM   #2
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I'll keep my opinions to myself. Prayers for the family.
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:55 AM   #3
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Retarded! America's finest :-/
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:55 AM   #4
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I've been there.

Lord God in Heaven, Please comfort this family in their hour of need. Only You Lord can heal their hearts. I pray that they will open their hearts to You Lord. I hope their grieving will be brief and healing can begin. Bathe them Lord in Your peace and loving kindness. I pray Lord that Austin knew You and is in Your arms now and his pain and suffering is done. In the powerful healing name of Jesus My Savior I pray, Amen.

Oscar this one dug up some old hurts for me.
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:04 PM   #5
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While I do pray for the family and feel for them, I don't feel you can blame this on the police. Could it have been handled differently? Sure. It's still not their fault that this kid did this to himself. He decided to put himself in this situation. No one made him do anything.
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:20 PM   #6
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The lesson here is you never call the police for "help" with someone you care about. If you are worried about the mental health of a loved one, get them to people who are trained to resolve those situations. Thats not the police.
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:29 PM   #7
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Grrrrrr............
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:31 PM   #8
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People who are suicidal, really suicidal, will find a way. That said, there was absolutely no reason for a swat team IMO. How is surrounding a house (with a swat team) that may contain a suicidal person a good idea ? Where in hell are those tactics taught ? SMH here...
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:42 PM   #9
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Lots of questions remain after reading that report........
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Old 07-16-2017, 02:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Munson View Post
The lesson here is you never call the police for "help" with someone you care about. If you are worried about the mental health of a loved one, get them to people who are trained to resolve those situations. Thats not the police.
This is good advice. No telling how much of the information we didn't get from the article. Drugs, depression issues, threats made etc. One thing is for sure if it's a mental health issue and other folks are not in danger call a mental health professional not a cop.
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Old 07-16-2017, 02:38 PM   #11
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As a society we need to figure out how we proceed from here concerning mental health issues. Law enforcement are not mental health professionals and it is unfair to use them as such. I have read that some agencies are no longer responding to mental health calls.
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Old 07-16-2017, 02:49 PM   #12
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As a society we need to figure out how we proceed from here concerning mental health issues. Law enforcement are not mental health professionals and it is unfair to use them as such. I have read that some agencies are no longer responding to mental health calls.
This is exactly right. We deal with it all the time. Suicidal people are taken by police to a hospital for evaluation, then if they fit the criteria they are taken to a mental health facility. 9 times out of 10 they're out in 24-72 hours, and the problems start all over, and then law enforcement is dealing with them again.

And a lot of agencies are discussing no longer responding to suicidal person calls, but I don't personally know of any that have actually stopped yet. But it makes sense. Sometimes the sight of law enforcement just escalates the situation, or gives them the chance to commit suicide by cop. There's no easy answer, but forcing law enforcement to basically play doctor/therapist has been the wrong answer for years now. Something needs to be done differently for sure.
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Old 07-16-2017, 06:01 PM   #13
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Charlie, I can only imagine.
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Originally Posted by HeyMikey View Post
Lots of questions remain after reading that report........
Truth.

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Old 07-16-2017, 06:54 PM   #14
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If they had left him alone and left the house would his parents and himself still been alive today. Deranged individual and no one knows what would have happened. Very sad story and his parents and extended family are the ones left to ponder "what if?"
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Old 07-16-2017, 06:56 PM   #15
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If they had left him alone and left the house would his parents and himself still been alive today. Deranged individual and no one knows what would have happened. Very sad story and his parents and extended family are the ones left to ponder "what if?"
No. I'm pretty sure his parents are left saying "if only".
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:35 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Roy Munson View Post
The lesson here is you never call the police for "help" with someone you care about. If you are worried about the mental health of a loved one, get them to people who are trained to resolve those situations. Thats not the police.


On the contrary, I am a Mental Health Peace Officer and I have been trained to assist people in a mental health crisis. I have done this for several years.


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Old 07-16-2017, 11:36 PM   #17
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On the contrary, I am a Mental Health Peace Officer and I have been trained to assist people in a mental health crisis. I have done this for several years.


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So what went wrong in this case?
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:24 AM   #18
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Just maybe they got there early enough to prevent something like this from happening. http://q13fox.com/2016/02/26/neighbo...urder-suicide/
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:29 AM   #19
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On the contrary, I am a Mental Health Peace Officer and I have been trained to assist people in a mental health crisis. I have done this for several years.


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Some departments are lacking in that area. It is deadly for the victims of the militant departments.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:31 AM   #20
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Just maybe they got there early enough to prevent something like this from happening. http://q13fox.com/2016/02/26/neighbo...urder-suicide/
Maybe. But more than likely, this story wouldn't exist had the police not been called.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:36 AM   #21
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So what went wrong in this case?


I have some theories. It is actually more than I want to type on my phone. If I make it back to an actual keyboard soon, I'll share some.

I do agree that many departments are lacking in training on how to deal with mental health subjects. It is a hot button issue that the police are trapped in. There really isn't any winning in this area, just "a lesser of the evils" type of outcome.


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Old 07-17-2017, 08:56 AM   #22
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This was a no win for the police. Who knows what would have happened if they had backed out. Girlfriend could have been tracked down and killed. Parents too.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:10 AM   #23
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Very sad deal that parents have to deal with laying their son to rest. Prayers up for them.

The parents called and asked the police to check on his well being. They responded to do a check and then were threatened with harm if they came in. The police didn't do anything wrong. And then you have the supposed threat to the ex girlfriend so the police have to do something to make sure her well being is looked after as well. Tough situation to deal with all the way around.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:30 AM   #24
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Very sad deal that parents have to deal with laying their son to rest. Prayers up for them.

The parents called and asked the police to check on his well being. They responded to do a check and then were threatened with harm if they came in. The police didn't do anything wrong. And then you have the supposed threat to the ex girlfriend so the police have to do something to make sure her well being is looked after as well. Tough situation to deal with all the way around.
The parents didn't call, the girlfriend did. The guy wasn't a mental health case per se'. He was distraught over a tiff with his girlfriend. Heartbroken if you will. He probably said some things to his girlfriend that were concerning about his well being, but that is pretty par for such a situation. Was it necessary to push the issue of someone felling distraught and hopeless at the time? I don't think so, and according to the article, I'm pretty sure I'm right.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:50 AM   #25
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Sad deal . Prayers sent up high

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Old 07-17-2017, 10:36 AM   #26
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The parents didn't call, the girlfriend did. The guy wasn't a mental health case per se'. He was distraught over a tiff with his girlfriend. Heartbroken if you will. He probably said some things to his girlfriend that were concerning about his well being, but that is pretty par for such a situation. Was it necessary to push the issue of someone felling distraught and hopeless at the time? I don't think so, and according to the article, I'm pretty sure I'm right.
Bingo!!!! 10 years ago that type of response would have never happened. Just sad all around!

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Old 07-17-2017, 10:44 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Roy Munson View Post
The lesson here is you never call the police for "help" with someone you care about. If you are worried about the mental health of a loved one, get them to people who are trained to resolve those situations. Thats not the police.
Good advice but be careful who you call. A friend was having a lot of personal issues and called a crisis hot line to talk. He was asked if he intended to hurt himself and he answered no, he just needed to talk to someone. As the conversation progressed the crisis center kept asking if he wanted to hurt himself and he kept answering no. Finally the crisis hotline asked if he was going to hurt himself how would he do it. He answered he would probably shoot himself. Shortly thereafter he was swarmed by police at his workplace while still on the phone with the crisis hot line and taken out in cuffs. He lost his job where he had been employed for many years and his life went down hill from there. Be careful who you call even if you just need to talk.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:55 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
The parents didn't call, the girlfriend did.
They did call.
Quote:
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear — Austin would hurt himself if he wasn’t left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.
Such a sad situation. Prayers for the family.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:22 AM   #29
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They did call.


Such a sad situation. Prayers for the family.
"Concerned about his state of mind, the woman called police at 9:19pm, asking them to check on his welfare."
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:38 AM   #30
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... sad deal any way you slice it... prayers for all

the writing is so inflamatory i tend to want more info from other sources.

That said, feels like a lot of standard practices got used instead of common sense. When you ignore whats in front of you to follow protocol i tend to think you are coping out or looking for a reaction
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:39 AM   #31
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The immediate response should be noticing the bias in that article from the start and the way things were portrayed.

Making assumptions from that article would be very uneducated.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:39 AM   #32
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Bingo!!!! 10 years ago that type of response would have never happened. Just sad all around!

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Old 07-17-2017, 11:48 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
"Concerned about his state of mind, the woman called police at 9:19pm, asking them to check on his welfare."
I read that part. You said the parents didn't call. They did. That's all.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:54 AM   #34
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I wasn't suggesting that a crisis hotline is the way to go. I was just saying that police are rarely trained to solve this problem.

For the most part, police are the hammer and to them everything is a nail.

If you have a loved one that is having mental issues you need handle it. As frustrating as it is, get them to the Dr. Don't involve a 3rd party who doesn't have a duty of confidentiality.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:51 PM   #35
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Quote:
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I wasn't suggesting that a crisis hotline is the way to go. I was just saying that police are rarely trained to solve this problem.



For the most part, police are the hammer and to them everything is a nail.



If you have a loved one that is having mental issues you need handle it. As frustrating as it is, get them to the Dr. Don't involve a 3rd party who doesn't have a duty of confidentiality.


As a MHPO, I'm bound by HIPAA privacy policies. I cannot relate any information about a consumer's status without their permission unless it is a L & D situation.


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Old 07-17-2017, 03:19 PM   #36
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Default Bizzaro Incident? Prayers for the family!

Way to many cops and equipment for one guy with a pistol. I've been there and have seen others there due to broken relationships, never needed a swat team. This is all my opinion on what I read in article, could have been more to it, if it is they are sure quiet about it.



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Old 07-17-2017, 03:24 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Gbird View Post
As a MHPO, I'm bound by HIPAA privacy policies. I cannot relate any information about a consumer's status without their permission unless it is a L & D situation.


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What is required for you to get an involuntary commitment?
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:32 PM   #38
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Also been through it with my mom. She was drinking alone one night and talking to her sister on phone said she missed my dad and brother and was ready to join them. She called sheriffs office, moms neighbor called me and said someone was trying to kick my moms back door in. They were still kicking when I got there. They explained situation to me and I asked if I could try to wake her up. They told me to stand back and kicked again. I asked who was paying for the door? They were not concerned so I stepped to the side of house, opened window and crawled in. Opened the door and they attempted to make me go outside, so I directed them to living room while I slipped into her bedroom to wake her so she wouldn't get scared and grab her pistol causing someone to get hurt. Sure enough they heard us and came in with pistols drawn. She was fine, she was shook up and I had to stay with her the rest of the night. I had dealt with her for several months and knew her very well but they would not listen to anything I had to say and were mad because I didn't obey them. Tough, I probably at the least saved my moms life. Sometimes.......sometimes small town cops where not much goes on get a little excited and want more excitement than really exists. Now I must say I respect all law enforcement and realize they have a tough job but sometimes they just need to chill and listen. That's all.


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Old 07-17-2017, 10:45 PM   #39
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What is required for you to get an involuntary commitment?


I have to be able to articulate that s/he is a danger to themselves or others (in a nutshell), due to being in a mental crisis. I have committed many, but there are also many that I have let walk because it is not against the law to suffer from a mental illness.


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Old 07-17-2017, 11:01 PM   #40
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Swat team was too much. Trained MHU officers would have been better. But the same people on here griping would be in an uproar with this headline:

Girlfriend and Parents call 911....No response.

Police chief says, "We were too busy and short handed".

And now a family is dead....the shooter committed suicide after killing his parents.


TBH: Unbelievable. They got time to write tickets and eat donuts but can't help a family in need? I try to back the blue but it's crap like this that makes it really hard at times. I mean a distraught guy, with a gun, two people calling 911, and they don't respond??????? What the hell do we pay them for? My dad was an officer and have some friends that are officers....but I better stop now before I get banned.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:34 PM   #41
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https://www.facebook.com/sherry.hill...79068812171408
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:44 PM   #42
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The lesson here is you never call the police for "help" with someone you care about. If you are worried about the mental health of a loved one, get them to people who are trained to resolve those situations. Thats not the police.
Exactly. To some hammers, everything is a nail.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:55 PM   #43
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Wow..........that is PROTECTING & SERVING!!! I hope things worked out for the best.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:09 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chew View Post
Swat team was too much. Trained MHU officers would have been better. But the same people on here griping would be in an uproar with this headline:

Girlfriend and Parents call 911....No response.

Police chief says, "We were too busy and short handed".

And now a family is dead....the shooter committed suicide after killing his parents.


TBH: Unbelievable. They got time to write tickets and eat donuts but can't help a family in need? I try to back the blue but it's crap like this that makes it really hard at times. I mean a distraught guy, with a gun, two people calling 911, and they don't respond??????? What the hell do we pay them for? My dad was an officer and have some friends that are officers....but I better stop now before I get banned.
Yep, a lot of clueless experts.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:14 PM   #45
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Sad deal all the way around. I don't blame the authorities but think things could have been handled differently for sure. Seems to me an otherwise mentally healthy individual didn't respond very well to a traumatic event. It happens.

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Old 07-18-2017, 05:22 PM   #46
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Prayers for the family and all involved.
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:07 PM   #47
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Prayers up for this family. That was a very bizarre event. Sorry I have much respect for the Blue Line. But one person locked in a room with a gun and a dog does not need an army of people to handle the situation. I hope the events of how this unfolds and the public is made aware so that lessons can be learned and protocols can be adjusted.
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:16 PM   #48
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Prayers up for this family. That was a very bizarre event. Sorry I have much respect for the Blue Line. But one person locked in a room with a gun and a dog does not need an army of people to handle the situation. I hope the events of how this unfolds and the public is made aware so that lessons can be learned and protocols can be adjusted.
Agreed!!! This would be the BEST case scenario of all of this. I checked for other angles on this story but did not see anything. I am sure someone on TBH has better searching skills than I do however.
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Old 07-18-2017, 07:02 PM   #49
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Some departments are lacking in that area. It is deadly for the victims of the militant departments.
My entire department is MHMR Peace Officer Certified. It took a few years, but we are all trained. Was on SWAT for a number of years and in all the barricaded suicide call out only about 5% ever went through the act with our presence there. Our negotiators and tactics are in place to help prevent the act not push the actor to commit the act.
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Old 07-18-2017, 08:21 PM   #50
Ironman
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Originally Posted by Crookhunter View Post
My entire department is MHMR Peace Officer Certified. It took a few years, but we are all trained. Was on SWAT for a number of years and in all the barricaded suicide call out only about 5% ever went through the act with our presence there. Our negotiators and tactics are in place to help prevent the act not push the actor to commit the act.
That's good to hear. Unfortunately, it sounds like the actor was pushed to commit the act in this case.
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