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Old 12-20-2017, 10:30 AM   #1
Plain Lucky
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Default How safe is a safe?

Anyone ever had one broken into, stolen, or go through a house fire? If you've had one broken into or stolen, any idea on what features a safe could have that would have prevented it? Pure speculation on my part but my guess is they aren't near as hard to get into as we would like to think.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:32 AM   #2
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My safe is mainly to safely lock all of my firearms to keep them from my kids etc. I figure if someone wants it bad enough, they will take it.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:41 AM   #3
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My safe is mainly to safely lock all of my firearms to keep them from my kids etc. I figure if someone wants it bad enough, they will take it.
in my expierance it keeps honest folks honest, if a criminal wants in it and has the time they will get in it also great rust inhibitor,
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:47 AM   #4
IvoryRoot
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One of our customers went to the store and had his safe pulled out of the garage with a pickup and a chain while he was gone. He was only gone for 30 minutes in the middle of the day. The concrete anchors didn't help a bit.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:54 AM   #5
sharpstick35
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with ingenuity ant time, any security can be defeated. although I worked at one place that you had to have 2 people call and get half the combo every time you opened the safe and it changed every time.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:55 AM   #6
trophy8
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Depends on what quality of safe. The tractor supply and academy ones will slow them down but they'll get in them. I did a ton of research and decided on the Liberty fatboy 64 based on a lot of reading and videos. It's much much better built that the box store "safes". I did look at the higher end Amsec ones and some others but didn't want to throw $5000+ at it. Fire rating and protection is what I look at. If anyone has enough time and tools they'll get into any of them.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe Man View Post
My safe is mainly to safely lock all of my firearms to keep them from my kids etc. I figure if someone wants it bad enough, they will take it.
I want it! Can I take it along with that Raider Blue Pit of yours?



On a serious note, had a friend in college that had one stolen out of the garage. They took it like you see people take atm machines. Wrapped it in chain and floored the truck. Ripped it right off the floor.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:01 AM   #8
Phillip Fields
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The vast majority of home burglaries are smash and grab by amateurs. These people will be defeated by most good quality gun safes. If a pro wants the contents of your safe, he will get them, given enough time.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:04 AM   #9
Axe Man
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That Beaver Blue pit is ready to do work anytime you want to come this way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC50 View Post
I want it! Can I take it along with that Raider Blue Pit of yours?



On a serious note, had a friend in college that had one stolen out of the garage. They took it like you see people take atm machines. Wrapped it in chain and floored the truck. Ripped it right off the floor.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:06 AM   #10
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I went mid range in the Champion series. Number of bolts and door thickness was important to me along with enough fire rating to get the fire department out. I’m a big believer in keeping my safe as “hidden” as possible. Out of sight, out of mind.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:09 AM   #11
Charles
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I have one for the following reasons:

1. Keep my wife from seeing all the guns and ammo I've accumulated.

2. Keep my kids and more importantly their friends from my guns, ammo and other valuables. They are curious little critters after all.

3. Slow down a thief if my home were to get broken into.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:33 AM   #12
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Keeping it in the garage is just a bad idea makes it easy too easy to get to and also do what others have mentioned here by chaining and pulling with a truck. Inside the higher the quality the longer it will take them but they can get in any of them with enough time
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:36 AM   #13
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If you do go with a cheaper model look at the placement of the safe. You want it in an area where prying it open or getting long swinging blows will be difficult.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:48 AM   #14
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I can get in prolly most box store safes in 5 minutes with a metabo grinder.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one66stang View Post
If you do go with a cheaper model look at the placement of the safe. You want it in an area where prying it open or getting long swinging blows will be difficult.
This and also bolt it down properly because if its loose and they can turn it over with the door up the chances of them getting into it quicker goes way up.
There is a lot of videos on YouTube that go over some good points. I posted one on here several years ago you might can find.

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Old 12-20-2017, 11:49 AM   #16
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Peace of mind. Like they said, if they want it they will take it.

That said Ive NEVER seen one defeated in a burglary. I have seen one carried out of the master bath window and left in the brush. That safe was over 5' tall and the crooks dropped it 4 or 5 times before they hid it. Used T-posts to slide it out the window. Not sure how the owner got it out of the woods.

In recent events it does no good to put large amount of cash and guns in one then forget to lock the **** thing.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:58 AM   #17
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They won't be getting mine. Not bolted down but won't fit out of the closet without taking crown molding off and cutting cabinets back.

We did all that to get it in! So its there until we build our forever home.

And took 3 big guys to wheel it in
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:03 PM   #18
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They are "residential security containers" not safes.

If you want a safe you need to go to a TL rating. Very few of those have any fire ratings.

AmSec "American Security" is a good compromise. It costs about what ONE of my custom pistols do. It was an easy decision for me.

They were the only safe I found that actually protected from fires. Your above average thief isn't taking it either. 2000 lbs

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Old 12-20-2017, 12:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cattlelackranch View Post
They are "residential security containers" not safes.

If you want a safe you need to go to a TL rating. Very few of those have any fire ratings.

AmSec "American Security" is a good compromise. It costs about what ONE of my custom pistols do. It was an easy decision for me.

They were the only safe I found that actually protected from fires. Your above average thief isn't taking it either. 2000 lbs

Bingo! A RSC is NOT a safe or vault... To read about the difference and see what a real safe looks like, go to www.lonestargunsafes.com and look at their Graffunder safes... Only column you need to look at when deciding is the column that gives the weight of the "safe"... If it's not in the thousands of pounds and it's big enough to hold a long gun, it's a RSC not a Safe...
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Old 12-20-2017, 03:38 PM   #20
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Lots of great info!!!
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Old 12-20-2017, 03:46 PM   #21
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I actually keep 2 safes. I "nicer" (though not as nice as I ultimately want) in the house, out of sight for the guns. Another, store brand, off the shelf "safe" to lock up ammo that I keep in the garage. Maybe it's a mental thing, but I feel like guns and ammo in separate places adds extra security.

I keep a "self-defense" handgun and ammo close to where I sleep in the event it's needed.
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Old 12-20-2017, 05:56 PM   #22
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I've seen a lot of ruined guns inside a safe after a house fire.
If you want them to protect against fire you probably better put it somewhere that ain't going to burn
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Old 12-20-2017, 05:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plain Lucky View Post
Anyone ever had one broken into, stolen, or go through a house fire? If you've had one broken into or stolen, any idea on what features a safe could have that would have prevented it? Pure speculation on my part but my guess is they aren't near as hard to get into as we would like to think.
Type your exact thread title into the YouTube search bar. Watch about an hour's worth of videos and tell us what you think. The results might surprise you.
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Old 12-20-2017, 06:29 PM   #24
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A die grinder and about 2 wheels will cut and peel your safe open in 14 mins. Vid on YouTube. You are stopping the kid on your road that went bad. Not James bond.
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Old 12-20-2017, 06:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Fields View Post
The vast majority of home burglaries are smash and grab by amateurs. These people will be defeated by most good quality gun safes. If a pro wants the contents of your safe, he will get them, given enough time.
This^^^^
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:24 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gingib View Post
They won't be getting mine. Not bolted down but won't fit out of the closet without taking crown molding off and cutting cabinets back.

We did all that to get it in! So its there until we build our forever home.

And took 3 big guys to wheel it in
Don't need to get it outof the closet. We can lay on it's back, pry open and take the contents. Bolt it down or it's worthless

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Old 12-20-2017, 10:03 PM   #27
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A safe is the safest step in the right direction. I had my house kick-doored in mid day appx. 4 years ago. I had a computer stolen, every TV in the house stolen, and had every gun case in the top of my closet rifled open and thrown around the bedroom out of anger because they were empty. One thing I did not lose was a firearm, nor was my unbolted safe messed with that I could tell. I realized at that point in time how different things would have been if I hadn't have taken the $2,500 plunge on a safe when I did.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toaster View Post
Don't need to get it outof the closet. We can lay on it's back, pry open and take the contents. Bolt it down or it's worthless

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I agree to some extent, if the thief has time to work on your safe. A typical burglary is in and out though, and takes a little more effort and risk to get in one.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:22 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35remington View Post
Type your exact thread title into the YouTube search bar. Watch about an hour's worth of videos and tell us what you think. The results might surprise you.
Will try but it's difficult to find an hour of free time, someone help me out and tell me what the verdict is?
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:31 AM   #30
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I have a browning hells canyon safe and feel pretty confident about my guns when I leave the house.

Yes a determined burglar with enough time and the right tools can get into it. I'm mainly worried about crackheads breaking in while I'm gone. The guns they are looking for are the ones under the bed, in the closet, etc. They aren't going to spend the time breaking into a safe
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:56 AM   #31
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All I can say is buy the best safe you can afford. I had one of the box store/cheaper models and thieves broke into it w a pry-bar.
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Old 12-21-2017, 10:23 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltwaterSlick View Post
Bingo! A RSC is NOT a safe or vault... To read about the difference and see what a real safe looks like, go to www.lonestargunsafes.com and look at their Graffunder safes... Only column you need to look at when deciding is the column that gives the weight of the "safe"... If it's not in the thousands of pounds and it's big enough to hold a long gun, it's a RSC not a Safe...
This.... i had a Sentry safe 26 gun ($999.00 at home depot). I had 1 thief brake in , pry the RSC open and leave all under 3 minutes.
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Old 12-21-2017, 10:36 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macguyverberry View Post
I actually keep 2 safes. I "nicer" (though not as nice as I ultimately want) in the house, out of sight for the guns. Another, store brand, off the shelf "safe" to lock up ammo that I keep in the garage. Maybe it's a mental thing, but I feel like guns and ammo in separate places adds extra security.

In keep a "self-defense" handgun and ammo close to where I sleep in the event it's needed.
In the past I had one that I kept all my reloading gun powder inside, at times up to 30-40#.. Figured if someone stole it, and tried to use a cutting torch or grinder, the whole county would know when the sparks made it inside.
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:13 AM   #34
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If you store ammo or powder in a metal container you essentially are creating a bomb.

Both should be stored in a wooden cabinet/box

Just a friendly PSA
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:26 AM   #35
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I know my brothers place got broken into and they spent some time there. He had his safe in a corner and built a closet around it just to fit safe only, they couldn't lay it down. They broke every single screwdriver he had in his toolbox and they were in pieces on the floor. Wasn't enough room to get a crowbar in or they prob would have gotten in. Building structure around a cheaper one helps alotm
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:32 AM   #36
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Nice big safe to store everything important
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:40 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cattlelackranch View Post
If you store ammo or powder in a metal container you essentially are creating a bomb.

Both should be stored in a wooden cabinet/box

Just a friendly PSA
40# of gun powder is a bomb regardless of how you keep it. I have since moved it offsite for that very reason.

From test I have seen, if kept in safe it would be a directional blast, and blast pattern can be better controled in terms of direction. Door is blown out direction it is facing and safe goes in opposite direction.

Last edited by BrianL; 12-21-2017 at 11:43 AM..
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:42 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trophy8 View Post
Depends on what quality of safe. The tractor supply and academy ones will slow them down but they'll get in them. I did a ton of research and decided on the Liberty fatboy 64 based on a lot of reading and videos. It's much much better built that the box store "safes". I did look at the higher end Amsec ones and some others but didn't want to throw $5000+ at it. Fire rating and protection is what I look at. If anyone has enough time and tools they'll get into any of them.
My company is a dealer of AmSec safes and can attest to their quality. In my experience if a person wanted to break into a safe they wouldn't go through the door, they'd cut the side of the safe. That's why we only sell AmSec now.
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:45 AM   #39
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I was in the fire service for 30 years the last 10 I was an investigator. If you are worried about your guns being damaged by fire moving next door to a fire station is better insurance. If you live in the country they will be toast safes just can't hold up to the heat for that long.
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Old 12-21-2017, 12:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plain Lucky View Post
Will try but it's difficult to find an hour of free time, someone help me out and tell me what the verdict is?
Why do your own research when you can have someone else do it for you for frizzle ?

Interesting approach.
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Old 12-21-2017, 01:36 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by IvoryRoot View Post
One of our customers went to the store and had his safe pulled out of the garage with a pickup and a chain while he was gone. He was only gone for 30 minutes in the middle of the day. The concrete anchors didn't help a bit.
As someone who has a pretty large amount of experience dealing with burglars and burglary investigations, I can confidently say that this would be an extremely rare type of occurrence.

It's been my experience that if your safe is large enough that it can't be just picked up and carried out, then it won't get touched in the vast majority of cases. Any safe can be defeated with enough time and a few tools.

All of the residential safes I've personally seen defeated were defeated by someone the victim knew and the suspect knew the victim would not be home any time soon. The vast majority of residential burglaries happen in less than 5 minutes. I used to conduct surveillance on burglary suspects and have watched many burglars break into houses. Only a handful of times were the burglars inside the house for more than 5 minutes. The longest I ever had a burglar in a house was for 45 minutes. That was an extremely long time. The 2nd longest was maybe 10 minutes at most. Most burglars want stuff they can grab and get out. A safe, especially one large enough that it can't be just picked up and carried out, will save you valuables from theft in a burglary. My safe weighs over 940 lbs empty. It's not bolted down. But, it's also in a spot in my house that would be impossible to get to and remove it without destroying an exterior wall and then destroying multiple interior walls just to get to it. The only reasonable option would be to defeat the safe on sight. It is possible, but is extremely unlikely as most burglars don't want to spend that much time inside the target residence. There's just to high of a likelihood of getting caught. They can hit several houses in a day and there is never a shortage of valuables that are easily grabbed and made off with.
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:38 PM   #42
Charles
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A thief isn't going to spend a lot of time trying to pry open a safe when the siren of your burglar alarm is blaring in the back ground and you have camera's surrounding your home.

Between the alarm, cameras and safe I'm pretty confident my stuff will stay my stuff.
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Old 12-21-2017, 03:01 PM   #43
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some good info on this thread!
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Old 12-21-2017, 03:30 PM   #44
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We are about to buy a retail store Cannon Gun Safe. We just need to keep the turds from getting our guns. We don't expect any James Bonds to come breaking in.
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Old 12-21-2017, 04:13 PM   #45
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Interesting
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:08 PM   #46
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some good info on this thread!
Yes sir!
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:43 AM   #47
TX35GTR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flywise View Post
I've seen a lot of ruined guns inside a safe after a house fire.
If you want them to protect against fire you probably better put it somewhere that ain't going to burn
Ive heard this from a few fireman, one had been in the business for 30+ years and had never seen any survive to that point. Thats why I never got too hung up on the fire rating when I bought mine.

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Old 12-22-2017, 07:52 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX35GTR View Post
Ive heard this from a few fireman, one had been in the business for 30+ years and had never seen any survive to that point. Thats why I never got too hung up on the fire rating when I bought mine.

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Same as what I have heard. A buddy used to work claims for farm bureau and worked a ton of fire cases involving safes. Said even if the heat doesn’t ruin them the smoke gets in and really damages the guns.


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Old 12-22-2017, 08:15 AM   #49
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When the wet heat from a structure fire at a high enough temperature is applied to metal it will immediately start rusting. It's almost like the moisture penetrates the microscopic pours opened up by the heat. Paint will never stick to it, oil and or grease won't stop the rust. I investigated a minor kitchen fire once, oil on the stove caught fire burned the cabinets and got into the attic, firemen put the fire out a couple of minuets after they arrived on scene. Anyway I took the home owner on a damage tour and he wanted to check out his safe. He opened it and just about every gun already had started to rust (safe was all the way in the back of the house) it was a good high quality safe also.
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Old 12-22-2017, 10:32 AM   #50
kumathebear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pullersboy View Post
As someone who has a pretty large amount of experience dealing with burglars and burglary investigations, I can confidently say that this would be an extremely rare type of occurrence.

It's been my experience that if your safe is large enough that it can't be just picked up and carried out, then it won't get touched in the vast majority of cases. Any safe can be defeated with enough time and a few tools.

All of the residential safes I've personally seen defeated were defeated by someone the victim knew and the suspect knew the victim would not be home any time soon. The vast majority of residential burglaries happen in less than 5 minutes. I used to conduct surveillance on burglary suspects and have watched many burglars break into houses. Only a handful of times were the burglars inside the house for more than 5 minutes. The longest I ever had a burglar in a house was for 45 minutes. That was an extremely long time. The 2nd longest was maybe 10 minutes at most. Most burglars want stuff they can grab and get out. A safe, especially one large enough that it can't be just picked up and carried out, will save you valuables from theft in a burglary. My safe weighs over 940 lbs empty. It's not bolted down. But, it's also in a spot in my house that would be impossible to get to and remove it without destroying an exterior wall and then destroying multiple interior walls just to get to it. The only reasonable option would be to defeat the safe on sight. It is possible, but is extremely unlikely as most burglars don't want to spend that much time inside the target residence. There's just to high of a likelihood of getting caught. They can hit several houses in a day and there is never a shortage of valuables that are easily grabbed and made off with.
Thank you! The voice of reason and experience. Merry Christmas...
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