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Old 07-23-2018, 06:50 AM   #1
Traildust
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Default Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting. Prison time or Miller time?

Curious what my fellow TBHers think. Was the shooter justified or step over the line?

https://globalnews.ca/video/4345864/...store-shooting
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Old 07-23-2018, 06:53 AM   #2
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Without knowing all of the details hard to say but based on what I saw it was a little on the marginal side to me.

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Old 07-23-2018, 07:01 AM   #3
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From what I read IMO the shooter went looking for trouble. Just because it is legal, doesn't make it ethical.
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Old 07-23-2018, 07:09 AM   #4
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Im getting old so my days of standing toe to toe exchanging blows are over.

Without knowing the details the guy who came out of the store went looking for trouble and found it. We'll have to see how things unfold.
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Old 07-23-2018, 07:10 AM   #5
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Without knowing all of the details hard to say but based on what I saw it was a little on the marginal side to me.

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I agree
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Old 07-23-2018, 07:18 AM   #6
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Default Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting. Prison time or Miller time?

Senseless loss of life.

I donít think I would have pulled the trigger because it looked like to me the guy shot was beginning to walk away.

If it looked like he was coming towards me to beat my head into the ground, I may have a different reaction.
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Old 07-23-2018, 07:29 AM   #7
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Incident was instigated by the shooter he bit off more than he could chew then shot someone over it. These laws are designed to protect the victims not the aggressors. If a grown man was in my wife's face id get involved also. Don't start nuthin won't be nothin. Based on the story they need to charge him.

Disclaimer: I don't have all the facts. Just based on what I read.

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Old 07-23-2018, 07:42 AM   #8
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I feel the shooter is wrong. Seems like an abuse of the stand your ground law.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:13 AM   #9
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IMHO the sheriff is just being a coward and doesn't want his name tied to the case so he is passing the buck.

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Old 07-23-2018, 08:14 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by TxKronik View Post
Incident was instigated by the shooter he bit off more than he could chew then shot someone over it. These laws are designed to protect the victims not the aggressors. If a grown man was in my wife's face id get involved also. Don't start nuthin won't be nothin. Based on the story they need to charge him.

Disclaimer: I don't have all the facts. Just based on what I read.

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I agree, other than a blind sided push,didnít see much of a threat and he looked to have had plenty of time to process, wasnít a pull and shoot from the hip, more like pull take careful aim and pow. Thatís what I get out of the video.

If he had that pistol to begin with, wth was he bitching about the parking spot. Pull the gun and tell them to move!!!
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Outlaw_6 View Post
Senseless loss of life.

I don’t think I would have pulled the trigger because it looked like to me the guy shot was beginning to walk away.

If it looked like he was coming towards me to beat my head into the ground, I may have a different reaction.
I agree with this, also depends if the 47 year old was handicapped. Regardless it looked to me like the dude that shoved the other guy was backing off. On the other hand the guy that shoved should of been facing assault charges if he wouldn't of got lead poisoning. Ya the older guy was arguing with his GF however he wasn't going hands on that we know of.

All this is just opinion from what I saw in the video and reading the article.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:20 AM   #12
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Whole lot of information missing to form any conclusion.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:23 AM   #13
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Dont know all the details be he pushed the heck out of that dude. Dont put your hands on people is a good rule to live by.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:31 AM   #14
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If everyone acted like everyone had a gun, the world would be a whole lot more respectful.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:32 AM   #15
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Not justified IMO. When he pulled his weapon the dude backed off. This guy was looking for a reason to shoot someone.
Yes he got shoved to the ground. Big deal. He was yelling at the guys wife. Yes it's aggravating to see an ahole park in handicap with no permit. If you start schit over something this trivial you better realize it can easily come to this. The kids father is dead now over a parking spot.
Pick your battles. Being a parking lot monitor is not worth it.

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Old 07-23-2018, 08:35 AM   #16
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So somebody pushes me because I’m running my mouth, I fall down on my butt and I kill someone for pushing me? The shooter should be in jail imo.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:37 AM   #17
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I also dont know the details, but I also dont believe that this incident should have led to a loss of life.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:38 AM   #18
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I think the shooter instigated the confrontation by approaching and yelling at the woman in the car for parking in a handicap spot. The guy came outside to check on his wife and shoved the guy yelling at her. The shooter then shot the guy even when he was walking away. I don't see how this is stand your ground. Why isn't it stand your ground for the guy who comes out of the store and finds a guy approaching his wife in an aggressive manner. I guess we will learn more details and see what the courts do.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:40 AM   #19
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Feels like a case of two wrongs don't make a right...

That dude went for his gun WAY too quick.there was 0 threat to him after he drew from what I saw.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:42 AM   #20
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I think the shooter instigated the confrontation by approaching and yelling at the woman in the car for parking in a handicap spot. The guy came outside to check on his wife and shoved the guy yelling at her. The shooter then shot the guy even when he was walking away. I don't see how this is stand your ground. Why isn't it stand your ground for the guy who comes out of the store and finds a guy approaching his wife in an aggressive manner. I guess we will learn more details and see what the courts do.
well technically.. HE was the aggressor when he laid hands on the other guy. He picked a physical confrontation with someone that was armed.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:47 AM   #21
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well technically.. HE was the aggressor when he laid hands on the other guy. He picked a physical confrontation with someone that was armed.
I agree. But I also don't think he was enough of a threat after the shove to deserve being shot. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Blame on both sides.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:52 AM   #22
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Dont know all the details be he pushed the heck out of that dude. Dont put your hands on people is a good rule to live by.
Totally agree. Keep your hands to yourself and you probably won't get shot.

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Old 07-23-2018, 08:54 AM   #23
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unless their is prior history of the two, i do not see it as justified, the shover did not appear to be going back for more, looked like he made his point and was backing off,,, also the shooter shot at least once more while the victim was obvious in full retreat,,, looks like unjustified shooting for sure after the first shot
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:00 AM   #24
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Based solely on the video, I am having a hard time finding self-defense.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:00 AM   #25
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Hard to say without knowing all of the context. If i'm standing there and someone comes in and pushes me, i'm automatically assuming the worst and am going to be prepared to fight or draw if I can.

In this case it looks like there was some sort of argument (which I would never stand there and take part in with a stranger in the first place. Not saying its a condemnation but it is certainly stupid), and it looks like the pusher did not escalate any further. It actually appears the shooter contemplated the shooting after hitting the ground.


As a poster said above, not putting your hands on someone unless it is self defense is a good rule to live by. The pusher clearly committed assault, but that doesn't mean the shooting is justified.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:06 AM   #26
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Like i said..way too much info missing..
is there a history?
did shover say something like--goin to get my gun...I'm gonna kill you...etc etc..while walkin away?

Regardless, it was a senseless death.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:10 AM   #27
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No,
individual not in fear of his life, just pushed down,(bullying like in schools)should of walked away,(of course) possibly the people in cars there if the man acted out of his mind, or was trying to hurt families.

Is he a homeless vet asking for money,unsure, need more
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:13 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay C View Post
Hard to say without knowing all of the context. If i'm standing there and someone comes in and pushes me, i'm automatically assuming the worst and am going to be prepared to fight or draw if I can.

In this case it looks like there was some sort of argument (which I would never stand there and take part in with a stranger in the first place. Not saying its a condemnation but it is certainly stupid), and it looks like the pusher did not escalate any further. It actually appears the shooter contemplated the shooting after hitting the ground.


As a poster said above, not putting your hands on someone unless it is self defense is a good rule to live by. The pusher clearly committed assault, but that doesn't mean the shooting is justified.
So out of curiosity what would you have done if someone was verbally raising hell to your wife or girlfriend in this situation?
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:15 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by -HIC- View Post
Based solely on the video, I am having a hard time finding self-defense.
That's the issue. In Florida "stand your ground" is not the same as "self defense". As long as you state you were in fear of your life your good to go. If florida only had right to self defense law, he'd likely be in jail for murder.
The sheriff said he can't arrest him and "just because you can doesn't mean you should". He doesn't agree with the shoot but under the stand your ground law he can be held liable and sued for arresting him.
Also turns out the parking lot monitor has a history of yelling at people for parking there. I'll say it again...He was looking for a reason to shoot someone. Bad deal.

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Old 07-23-2018, 09:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systemnt View Post
Like i said..way too much info missing..
is there a history?
did shover say something like--goin to get my gun...I'm gonna kill you...etc etc..while walkin away?

Regardless, it was a senseless death.
No he did not. He was inside the store while shooter was yelling at the girlfriend for being parked in a HC spot. Shooter had also been warned to knock off the rent a cop BS prior to this by the store owner according to reports.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:21 AM   #31
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No he did not. He was inside the store while shooter was yelling at the girlfriend for being parked in a HC spot. Shooter had also been warned to knock off the rent a cop BS prior to this by the store owner according to reports.
I was talking about POST shove.
And it doesnt matter what storeowner told him - no relevance at all other than he should have been fired.

edit: should not have said 'no relevance'...it does offer some insite to his predisposition and tendencies..so it could be used to show he was lookin for a reason...

Last edited by systemnt; 07-23-2018 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:27 AM   #32
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So out of curiosity what would you have done if someone was verbally raising hell to your wife or girlfriend in this situation?
Get in between them and figure out what's going on. Most likely tell her to crawl over to the passenger seat, so I could keep myself between them while preparing to drive away. Escalating a situation into a fight or shootout is not protecting your girlfriend/spouse/kids. It is putting them in more danger. That should only happen when there is no other option.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:27 AM   #33
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If someone shoving you, because you're a man yelling at a lady in a car, is cause for you to fear for your life...well, you may wanna stay home from now on. The shover stopped and put his hands in his pockets, doesn't look like he's trying to continue the confrontation. IMO, the shooter was looking for a reason to shoot someone, based solely on what you can see here. It's a freaking parking spot, no matter how aggravating it is to see able bodied people using a handicap space, it certainly doesn't warrant screaming at anyone. Goodness, what a crazy situation
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:28 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systemnt View Post
I was talking about POST shove.
And it doesnt matter what storeowner told him - no relevance at all.
Maybe I did not say it properly. The dead was exiting the store and never approached his vehicle other than the push. His back was actually opposite of it.
In regards to to the shooter having previous history of starting S in the same location I would think would be relevant no?
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:31 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtymike View Post
Dont know all the details be he pushed the heck out of that dude. Dont put your hands on people is a good rule to live by.
YEP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by systemnt View Post
well technically.. HE was the aggressor when he laid hands on the other guy. He picked a physical confrontation with someone that was armed.
YEP!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by systemnt View Post
Like i said..way too much info missing..
is there a history?
did shover say something like--goin to get my gun...I'm gonna kill you...etc etc..while walkin away?

Regardless, it was a senseless death.
Yep!

I think it was a senseless death but I don't think there is enough info to call it justified or not. Arguing with someone including your gf or wife, even yelling, is not justification to go up and blind side someone like that. It is assault and unacceptable. That probably doesn't justify the shooting but at the same time think of all the stories we have heard about it not stopping with a shove (the shover going and getting a gun, etc.). Just because he acts like he is retreating doesn't mean he is done and/or you don't have fear for your life.
People are crazy and I'm to the point where I assume everyone is crazy and willing/wanting to kill me. Especially after a blind sided shove like that. I'm also to the point where I'm not going to fight you anymore, I'm too old and you aren't worth the effort. If it gets to that point (including the shove) guns are coming out. With that said I can't see myself yelling at a woman for parking there.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:39 AM   #36
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Based on the video I saw, I think the shooter overreacted with the pull of the trigger and I am usually one to side with a shooter in a conceal carry defense situation..
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:43 AM   #37
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Based on the video I saw, I think the shooter overreacted with the pull of the trigger and I am usually one to side with a shooter in a conceal carry defense situation..
He's either going to have a hell of an excuse like they guy threatened to kill him as he walked away...or it was like others are sayin..he was looking for a reason to pull the trigger...
the law will stand by him..based on how its written...
but civil court is going to eat this guy alive.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:43 AM   #38
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That's the issue. In Florida "stand your ground" is not the same as "self defense". As long as you state you were in fear of your life your good to go. If florida only had right to self defense law, he'd likely be in jail for murder.
The sheriff said he can't arrest him and "just because you can doesn't mean you should". He doesn't agree with the shoot but under the stand your ground law he can be held liable and sued for arresting him.
Also turns out the parking lot monitor has a history of yelling at people for parking there. I'll say it again...He was looking for a reason to shoot someone. Bad deal.

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Understand, and agree with both of your posts.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:45 AM   #39
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Based only off video, no.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:53 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txhunter007 View Post
I feel the shooter is wrong. Seems like an abuse of the stand your ground law.
My first thought as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtymike View Post
Dont know all the details be he pushed the heck out of that dude. Dont put your hands on people is a good rule to live by.
Yup

I am curious to know what was said by the shover. Did he shout out a threat of death?? He didn't walk away, just backed up a step. Maybe to charge again?? We may never know...
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:27 AM   #41
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A CHL holder has a RESPONSIBILITY to avoid confrontation, not instigate it. BECAUSE he was carrying a gun is reason enough to not instigate an argument (ie confronting somebody for parking in a handicap spot) that could potentially escalate into a physical confrontation.


IMO, the shooting was absolutely not justified, and would be a gross misapplication of the "stand your ground" defense. Death penalty is a harsh punishment for being shoved to the ground.
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:38 AM   #42
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well ****... the guy apparently went and got himself banned at TBH at the very least
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:53 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay C View Post
Hard to say without knowing all of the context. If i'm standing there and someone comes in and pushes me, i'm automatically assuming the worst and am going to be prepared to fight or draw if I can.

In this case it looks like there was some sort of argument (which I would never stand there and take part in with a stranger in the first place. Not saying its a condemnation but it is certainly stupid), and it looks like the pusher did not escalate any further. It actually appears the shooter contemplated the shooting after hitting the ground.


As a poster said above, not putting your hands on someone unless it is self defense is a good rule to live by. The pusher clearly committed assault, but that doesn't mean the shooting is justified.



As far as Florida law is concerned it was.
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:57 AM   #44
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A lot are assuming he started the shouting at the woman. For all we know he just said something and she blew up on him and he was just responding back. Same type of women that would do that would park in a handicap parking spot without needing it would do that. Point is social media shouldnít be commenting on stuff like this with partial information.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:05 AM   #45
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As others have said not enough info to come up with conclusion. Based purely on video, I would say no, the guy pushed him but was no longer a threat as he was walking away.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:05 AM   #46
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When Texas lawmakers passed the tx chl they felt it would create
a more polite society .
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:15 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
A CHL holder has a RESPONSIBILITY to avoid confrontation, not instigate it. BECAUSE he was carrying a gun is reason enough to not instigate an argument (ie confronting somebody for parking in a handicap spot) that could potentially escalate into a physical confrontation.


IMO, the shooting was absolutely not justified, and would be a gross misapplication of the "stand your ground" defense. Death penalty is a harsh punishment for being shoved to the ground.
That is my thoughts too.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:18 AM   #48
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Glad it isn't my decision to make. I **** sure wouldn't shoot someone in that situation.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:31 AM   #49
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I am just glad they are they same race, other wise there would be nation wide protests right now.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:35 AM   #50
bossbowman
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IDK about that one, when he pulled the gun the guy shot started backing up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batmaninja View Post
I am just glad they are they same race, other wise there would be nation wide protests right now.
Shooter is white, I'm surprised the whole thing hasn't blown up more.

Last edited by bossbowman; 07-23-2018 at 11:43 AM.
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