Finland ends universal basic income

[Ætheling]

But here is something you cant get readily in the Norse-lands.


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[flywise]

For what it’s worth. This was part what is actually kind of an interesting set of experiments, testing different ideas in small randomized samples...to play with new ideas/concepts. Long read, or can listen to the full podcast after: https://99percentinvisible.org/episo...sh-experiment/

A few excerpts:

UBI advocates argue that many jobs don’t pay enough to even make rent and buy groceries: people can work full-time and still be below the poverty line. It’s easy to understand why people on the left would advocate for a guaranteed income, but a version of this concept is also popular among libertarians, who see UBI as a way to shrink the welfare state. For example, you could take away food stamps, medicare, and housing subsidies, and replace all of it with this one flat sum.


The experiment itself is fascinating, not just because of what Finland is testing but also how they are testing it. Finland is trying out a unique, design-oriented way of thinking about government. Rather than rolling out laws on a massive scale, they are trying to craft legislation in stages, with user feedback, just as one would create a piece of design.

Demos helped establish an “experimentation unit” for the prime minister’s office to create prototypes of laws, deploy them in a controlled fashion and see what’s effective before scaling them up.

With that in place, one of the first experiments the Finnish government decided to try was with basic income. Instead of attempting to modify the extensive and complicated welfare system already in place, this experiment is performed on a sample segment of the population sample in a randomized and automatic fashion. Basic income just gets deposited in participants’ bank accounts every month.

Normally, to collect unemployment in Finland, Sanna would have to go to job training meetings and check-ins every few months. Under the basic income experiment, Sanna and the other test participants scattered around the country don’t have to do anything at all to get their 560 euros every month.

At the end of the experiment, KELA will look and see if this group of unemployed people who got basic income took on work, and compare it with their control group: the rest of the unemployed people.

This experiment, however, is not a test of UBI, in that it’s not actually universal. It’s only for unemployed people. “I think what we’re experimenting with now is called partial basic income,” says Mokka. “This is of course a limited experiment. I don’t know how relevant it is, because a lot of groups are missing.” If so, then in a future test, basic income will also have to be given to people who are already employed, to see if they quit or change jobs.

The experiment is far from perfect, but it’s not supposed to be a final product. Truly, it’s the first draft. If this test yields meaningful results, it should lead to another experiment, then another and another.

Finland isn’t just designing experiments with basic income. There will be experiments for what languages to teach in schools, how to change childcare and other things. According to their website, the experimentation office is working on 26 key projects nationally.

Experimenting with welfare is still welfare only in a variety of distributions. No matter how many experiments socialist try, if their honest, they will always come to the conclusion that capitalism is the best way for a human to provide for himself

[stickerpatch59]

We could go down the rabbit hole of how unemployment is calculated differently in each Country.....

I 100% promise we have more than 5% of our population not working. I would not be shocked if 25% wasn't working.

I am going with about 25%, and they are all young guys in their 20-30 yr range... mama and pops taking care of the ner do wells.

mandatory enlistment in the armed services; like Israel does might just do our nation some good.

everyone should have skin in the game.

[xman59]

Uncle Bernie's new proposition sounds similar. Cant even begin to understand the logic behind this stuff.

the logic is power for those who control the purse strings,, it a new version of slavery,,, a slave is someone with no rights to do as they please but must obey the master ( the one with the money)... if you do not please the master, by not voting or acting in a certain way or do not obey you get punished, and the money, cars, and house is taken away and given to another more obedient slave many will fall in line because they want the money, residence, car, groceries the have no right too because they never earned any of it, but became a very good sheep for the shepherd to control by the purse string

[meltingfeather]

you are correct, we do give way more away than they do in terms of welfare.

how do you figure?
as a percentage of GDP Finland's social welfare spending is over 50% higher than the US.
In per capita dollars it's over 20% higher.

[meltingfeather]

This experiment failed

Where'd you get that from?
What I saw is that the data won't be out until next year.

[Speedgoat]

I love liberal minds. They are so simple and only see one side of everything, which is far from the truth in almost every case.

The Personal Income Tax Rate in Finland stands at 51.60 percent. Personal Income Tax Rate in Finland averaged 52.96 percent from 1995 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 62.20 percent in 1995 and a record low of 49.00 percent in 2010. So, the more the government gives, the more they take from each family. Come comrade, I make everybody happy by taking all of their money. No need to work hard, as you all get the same.

In order to raise a lot of income tax revenue, income tax rates in Scandinavian countries are rather high except for in Norway. Denmark's top marginal effective income tax rate is 60.4 percent. Sweden's is 56.4 percent. Norway's top marginal tax rate is 39 percent. Jun 10, 2015

In Sweden they are taking Muslim refugees in at a ridiculous rate that their economy, safety, and culture cannot afford.

[rtp]

Saw this in my LinkedIn feed.

[froghunter]

That ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Money for nothin' and chicks for free

Easy, easy...money for nothing.

[Ætheling]

Where'd you get that from?

What I saw is that the data won't be out until next year.

OPs title. Just taking him on his word.


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[meltingfeather]

Finland ends universal basic income

OPs title. Just taking him on his word.


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OK but neither the OP’s title, post nor anything else I can find says that.
I’m curious what they actually found because this idea is gaining popularity (as in, maybe coming to a west coast US city) and I feel about it like most people here seem to.
And socialism in Sweden and Finland is certainly more workable owing to the factors you cite, but it has its problems. I’ve lived/worked in both places.