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    Here is my take of vehicle stops and searches according to what I believe is current law and court rulings.

    To detain someone, only reasonable suspicion is needed. To frisk or pat outer clothing for weapons only requires a reasonable belief that the person may be a danger. Terry v. Ohio

    Probable cause reaches a level of forced (the person has no lawful resistence options) needed to justify an arrest or search. In TX resisting is not justified or a defense to prosecution even if the search or arrest are later ruled as unlawful.

    RS and PC are based on a totality of circumstances. That is all facts and circumstances known to the officer at that moment in time. It cannot be based on something that turns up later. Officer has to make that determination on the street however a judge will ultimately decide if the officer was correct if any action is taken. Gates v. IL and several others.

    Anonymous tips from the public are generally held to be unreliable and can not give reason to detain, arrest or search. If an officer can verify enough of the tip to reach reasonable suspicion or probable cause by independent observation without any detention, he can then use the anonymous tip. An example is if someone anonymously calls and says I see a man with the red shirt dealing dope. That is not sufficient for a lawful detention. If the officer gets out of his car and hides around the corner and sees is the guy with the red shirt walking up to several different cars and exchanging something, that would likely be reasonable suspicion for a detention. Again, if the officer takes any action, the person detained or arrested has a right to challenge it in court and a judge will determine if the officer was correct. Gates v. IL, FL v. J. L., Alabama v. White and others.

    A named person (someone who IDs himself to an LEO) is generally held to be reliable, unlike an anonymous tip. An anonymous 911 call may be held reliable without independent observation since the 911 call IDs the caller.... probably. Prada Navarette v. CA

    If probable cause exists for a vehicle, a warrant is not needed. The officer doesn’t have to say, wait right here as I will be back in a couple of hours. In TX for example, if an officer searches a vehicle without a warrant but is claiming probable cause, any effort to stop the search will likely end in an arrest for Resisting Search and/or Interference With Public Duty. Carroll v. US (search of vehicle w/o warrant)

    An officer can order a driver out of a vehicle with absolutely no suspicion needed. Pennsylvavia v. Mimms

    An officer can order passengers out of a vehicle with absolutely no suspicion needed. Maryland v. Wilson

    Ordering people out of the vehicle in either case gives the officer no authority to frisk or search and is only a safety option available to the officer due to the dangers of traffic stops. Independent information (totality) would need to justify a frisk or a search.

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      Crooked Arrow, I'm still waiting for you to finish your thread. Curious to hear the input you were promising.

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        ...tick tock, tick tock.

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          Originally posted by doghouse View Post
          I was on a recent Grand Jury in Texas and we were Indicting people for weed that was legal in Colorado. Mixed emotions but illegal in Texas. No choice to follow the laws of Texas. Hope the Judge was easy on them,
          It would be pretty pathetic for a 74 year old dementia case to find himself in front of a judge for having a little medication on board.

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            Originally posted by ladrones View Post
            It would be pretty pathetic for a 74 year old dementia case to find himself in front of a judge for having a little medication on board.
            I am for mandatory sentences, a pot head is a pot head. Throw that old hippy under the jail

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              Originally posted by RJH1 View Post
              I am for mandatory sentences, a pot head is a pot head. Throw that old hippy under the jail
              He never took cannabis prior to getting the disease. If he was in his right mind he would not even consider it. It's just candy now as he don't even know he is getting treatments. Having an edible at 1400-1500 each day helps tremendously with the sundowners syndrome. He turns into a pure demon with just his pharmaceuticals.
              But the jail might be a good option. At least he would have a full time baby sitter and the medical care would most certainly be cheaper.

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                I always try to be pleasant if I get stopped, which hasn’t happen but a couple of times in the last 10 years. I have never in my life been asked to search my truck but I have been asked “ where are you headed?”.
                I have always wondered, why they would ask, care, or what possible difference that would make.


                There is a lot to be said about being pleasant I have not been given but one ticket in 20 years and that was for a plastic bottle blowing out of my boat.


                As far as searching my truck, if they asked I would take it as an insult and refuse. As someone who has trained dog, anyone that handles a dog can make it hit on anything they want it to.
                Last edited by Buff; 05-18-2018, 04:24 PM.

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                  Originally posted by ladrones View Post
                  He never took cannabis prior to getting the disease. If he was in his right mind he would not even consider it. It's just candy now as he don't even know he is getting treatments. Having an edible at 1400-1500 each day helps tremendously with the sundowners syndrome. He turns into a pure demon with just his pharmaceuticals.
                  But the jail might be a good option. At least he would have a full time baby sitter and the medical care would most certainly be cheaper.
                  I was joking, as long as someone is not hurting other people or costing me money I don't care much what they do.

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                    I'll let a LE search my car if they want to, but I hide a huge amount of graphic gay ****ography throughout to make it less enjoyable. Unless I get a gay LE, but whatever. Win some, lose some.

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                      Originally posted by BitBackShot View Post
                      I'll let a LE search my car if they want to, but I hide a huge amount of graphic gay ****ography throughout to make it less enjoyable. Unless I get a gay LE, but whatever. Win some, lose some.
                      my buddy has a funny traffic stop story that ends with an item of extreme disgust in his hand and him asking what it was... the kind youg man answered "thats my **** plug sir, I'm sorry"

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