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Old 09-21-2018, 10:59 AM   #151
nursejenn
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Well of course....everyone is a "young fella" when you're making the determination.
Not me!
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:59 AM   #152
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i know you're new around here, but i believe the correct term is "pulling it out of their ***", sir. If they don't have all the facts, they'll just make them up.:d
lol! :d:d:d
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:00 AM   #153
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Not me!
#sandwichmaker
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:00 AM   #154
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Well of course....everyone is a "young fella" when you're making the determination.


Don't make me have Mary send you to the cooler.

uh...wait!
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:01 AM   #155
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#sandwichmaker
🤣🤣🤣
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:14 AM   #156
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#sandwichmaker


Sammichmaker. Whats a sandwich?


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Old 09-21-2018, 01:09 PM   #157
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Piecing it together here's what I suppose happened:

Guide and hunter were handling the carcass and the sow caught them by surprise
Sow attacks hunter first giving the guide just enough time to break out bear spray
Hunter escapes and bear attacks guide
Hunter finds guide's pistol, but doesn't know how to use it so he tosses it to the guide
Hunter runs to horses and rides to ridge to call for help

When dad is interviewed he embellishes the story to protect his son and cast him in the best light possible. Attack on horseback and bear knocking pistol out of hand clearly did not happen.

What ever the case - what a terrible tragedy. Hopefully, knowledge gained from the investigation will save a life in the future.

Prayers for all families involved.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:12 AM   #158
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I’ve really have been trying to piece all this together and with interviews and updates here is what I gather. The grizzly attacked Mark the guide first. The hunter went to grab the guides pistol and the grizzly then went after him grabbing his leg. Mean while Mark who had already been attacked was yelling at the bear trying to get its attention off the hunter. The bear went back after Mark again and COrey with pistol in hand frantically tried to shoot the bear but couldn’t get the gun to work because there wasn’t a round chambered. Corey hit the button that drops the mag out and then tosses the gun in the direction of Mark who is being mauled and proceeds to run up hill returning to where horses were tied up. He hopped on his horse and flees the scene. Mark was able to deploy bear spray on the sow and get her off of him. As CHRIS made his way up the mountain his last view of Mark was him standing off with the sow. No one knows what happened after that. Mark was found not far uphill from the scene, maybe trying to make his way to his horse. There were not signs of dragging. The sow must have came in for a second attack after bear spray.

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Old 09-24-2018, 08:15 AM   #159
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Beautiful tribute from Mark’s brother in law. Too amazing not to share!

“Well, there are some things a man can’t run away from”~~John Wayne

We buried Mark Uptain, my brother in law, yesterday. He died from wounds he sustained while saving a man’s life during a grizzly bear attack. He had a chance to save himself after being attacked first and surviving that attack, but the bear went after the hunter, so Mark re engaged the bear...According to the deputy sheriff we talked to, Mark went Mike Tyson on that bear, standing toe to toe and fighting a sow grizzly with a yearling cub with her...There have been questions of why wasn’t there a gun, there was, the clip was dropped out of the gun before it was tossed in Marks direction and a round had never been chambered. What about bear spray? That was used also, an entire can was empty...It just wasn’t enough...I believe Mark died where he wanted to, sooner than he wanted to. He was an amazing father, he was a Christian, he loved his family, he loved the truth, and he died a hero.
‘Greater love has no one than this, than one lay down his life for his friends’ John 15:13

Here is Update from brother in law speech at funeral:

I’m sorry I didn’t know you as well as some others in your life, but I feel like I’ve known you my whole life and I hope that I can take this tragedy and turn it into something positive.

‘Every man dies, but not every man really lives’~~William Wallace

You really lived Mark...you really lived...Until we meet again...RIP
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:19 AM   #160
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Didn't see this posted anywhere, but here is the official Wyoming Game and Fish report on what happened. They even drew the scene out.

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/d2beb...4cfd867a54.pdf
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:35 AM   #161
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Some scary stuff. I still cant get over that the hunter was okay with running and leaving the guide behind and never going back to check or find him or anything, just told the dispatcher "he might be dead" and just left it at that waiting for his extraction for some time.
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:37 AM   #162
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I hate the thought of that poor man lying there alone, waiting to die. It seems like it was fairly quick, but still. Knowing the pos that he was guiding tucked his tail and ran away when he could have helped save him. Still such a sad situation.

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Old 04-08-2019, 09:24 AM   #163
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You know, being under duress will do strange things to some men. A few years ago we were hunting mule deer in northern New Mexico and the camp we had chosen had fresh deer carcasses close by. We drug them off a ways and set up camp. Later that night we heard noise behind one of the tents. A couple of guys went to investigate and found a large black bear that had been attracted to that meat. The bear was not threatening in any way. One of the guys was a CHL holder and he could not pull the slide back no matter how hard he tried. He was shaking so bad. The bear just left on is own after we shined the light on him.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:32 AM   #164
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Wow bears came from down wind. She hunted them
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:41 AM   #165
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How do you not know how to operate a Glock and how do you tuck tail and leave your partner behind.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:41 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by diamond10x View Post
Some scary stuff. I still cant get over that the hunter was okay with running and leaving the guide behind and never going back to check or find him or anything, just told the dispatcher "he might be dead" and just left it at that waiting for his extraction for some time.
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Originally Posted by solocam_aggie View Post
I hate the thought of that poor man lying there alone, waiting to die. It seems like it was fairly quick, but still. Knowing the pos that he was guiding tucked his tail and ran away when he could have helped save him. Still such a sad situation.
Agreed.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:43 AM   #167
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RIP
There is a lot of info in that report!
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:51 AM   #168
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How do you not know how to operate a Glock and how do you tuck tail and leave your partner behind.
True.

Related. Who doesn't keep a round in the chamber? Especially in bear country. I don't like it when I come across someone that thinks that the only way to be gun safe is to keep the gun unloaded.

Not knocking gun safety. Despite what I just said I would rather someone go overboard in that direction versus careless.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:12 AM   #169
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From quickly reading the report. It sounds like the guys ended up in a really bad situation and lucky they both weren't killed. The guide should have had the pistol LOADED on his side and not on his backpack. My guess is the hunter went to use the glock(which wasn't loaded) and either intentionally or unintentionally hit the mag release dropping the mag then said I'm out of here.

If you are not familiar with the way different pistols work I could see getting into a situation with a grizzly attack happening where you might have trouble staying calm and thinking straight. For all you saying I would have stayed and karate kicked the bears into submission please stop. You haven't been in a grizzly attack so you dont know.

It sounds like mistakes were made by both and it cost one man his life. No reason to throw judgment at the hunter for getting out when he could. At some point I would have done the same.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:15 AM   #170
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Some scary stuff. I still cant get over that the hunter was okay with running and leaving the guide behind and never going back to check or find him or anything, just told the dispatcher "he might be dead" and just left it at that waiting for his extraction for some time.
How exactly would you have gone back and checked on him? At that point the guy had no defense besides his bare hands. I'm sure it wasn't easy for him to sit idle but what would your plan have been?
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:25 AM   #171
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How exactly would you have gone back and checked on him? At that point the guy had no defense besides his bare hands. I'm sure it wasn't easy for him to sit idle but what would your plan have been?
Go and clean, quarter the elk

Just kidding hard to walk in that hunters boots , heck he may have not even known how to return to the scene after getting cell service
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:54 AM   #172
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For all you saying I would have stayed and karate kicked the bears into submission please stop. You haven't been in a grizzly attack so you dont know.

It sounds like mistakes were made by both and it cost one man his life. No reason to throw judgment at the hunter for getting out when he could. At some point I would have done the same.
I didn't see anyone say they would have karate kicked the bear? Hyperbole much?

I can and will criticize the hunter for not trying to work together to save the guides life. He had bear spray he didn't use for one. I hunt Grizzly country and this is THE reason we hunt together. If the other guy is just gonna run off whats the point?

If you hunt Grizzly country with folks at least warn them up front that if crap gets hairy you are going to bail. They will be better prepared themselves if they know that up front.
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Old 04-08-2019, 12:25 PM   #173
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I didn't see anyone say they would have karate kicked the bear? Hyperbole much?
Sarcasm much? I will say this guide was not prepared and didn't have a really good plan if they encountered a grizzly. Gun not loaded or on his side. My guess is he didn't even discuss a plan prior to hunting or going after carcass. Had he planned ahead he would have shown the guy how to operate the pistol. I am standing and fighting to a point. I would not give my life just to say I did. Everyone should know that if they hunt with me. I am not saying the hunter should have stayed or hauled ***. I don't know as I wasn't there.
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Old 04-08-2019, 12:36 PM   #174
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Thanks for posting that update and final report from WGFD.
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Old 04-08-2019, 12:39 PM   #175
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How do you not know how to operate a Glock and how do you tuck tail and leave your partner behind.
I am pretty comfortable with guns, including any handgun I've ever held on a regular basis however I've only shot some brands/styles only a few times. I shoot anything I carry regularly however outside of those guns, I can't claim competence.

What I can say with a high degree of certainty is that if I were in that hunters situation holding a gun that I had never operated and possibly only held never/once/twice AND faced with 2 charging grizzlies, one of which is actively ATTACKING MY GUIDE (also the only other human around), I'd probably forget my own name let alone try to figure out how to operate a handgun I was not familiar with.

That said, I only carry a gun I am comfortable with or make sure I am comfortable with the gun that IS present. Also, this is why I stay away from bear territory.

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Last edited by nursejenn; 04-08-2019 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:20 PM   #176
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Sarcasm much? I will say this guide was not prepared and didn't have a really good plan if they encountered a grizzly. Gun not loaded or on his side. My guess is he didn't even discuss a plan prior to hunting or going after carcass. Had he planned ahead he would have shown the guy how to operate the pistol. I am standing and fighting to a point. I would not give my life just to say I did. Everyone should know that if they hunt with me. I am not saying the hunter should have stayed or hauled ***. I don't know as I wasn't there.
As usual with disagreements, clarification adds perspective.

Both men, especially the guide who should have known better, made serious mistakes. We agree on that. I also agree that dying just because after you see your buddy die is pointless.

A clear reading of the particulars in this case shows the hunter did little more than throw an unloaded pistol at the guide. Even excusing his ridiculous lack of knowledge of a basic pistol, he had bear spray. He could have spent longer getting the pistol to work.





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Old 04-08-2019, 01:24 PM   #177
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As usual with disagreements, clarification adds perspective.

Both men, especially the guide who should have known better, made serious mistakes. We agree on that. I also agree that dying just because after you see your buddy die is pointless.

A clear reading of the particulars in this case shows the hunter did little more than throw an unloaded pistol at the guide. Even excusing his ridiculous lack of knowledge of a basic pistol, he had bear spray. He could have spent longer getting the pistol to work.





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The way I read it, the bear had turned to attacking him at the time he tossed the pistol to the guide...

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Old 04-08-2019, 01:37 PM   #178
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[QUOTE=nursejenn;14089497]I am pretty comfortable with guns, including any handgun I've ever held on a regular basis however I've only shot some brands/styles only a few times. I shoot anything I carry regularly however outside of those guns, I can't claim competence.

What I can say with a high degree of certainty is that if I were in that hunters situation holding a gun that I had never operated and possibly only held never/once/twice AND faced with 2 charging grizzlies, one of which is actively ATTACKING MY GUIDE (also the only other human around), I'd probably forget my own name let alone try to figure out how to operate a handgun I was not familiar with.

That said, I only carry a gun I am comfortable with or make sure I am comfortable with the gun that IS present. Also, this is why I stay away from bear territory.

All good points and like others have said, there is a list of things that were done wrong. With a charging grizzly it might only take one little mistake.
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:51 PM   #179
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As usual with disagreements, clarification adds perspective.

Both men, especially the guide who should have known better, made serious mistakes. We agree on that. I also agree that dying just because after you see your buddy die is pointless.

A clear reading of the particulars in this case shows the hunter did little more than throw an unloaded pistol at the guide. Even excusing his ridiculous lack of knowledge of a basic pistol, he had bear spray. He could have spent longer getting the pistol to work.

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All fair points. I would imagine for 99% dividing 12 by 4 while having a grizzly on or near us would be much harder to do than sitting at a desk and doing the same. It the same as asking someone in a shootout how many times the shot. If not trained for the situation they will answer 2 or 3 when they shot 9 times.

The brain works and doesn't work in mysterious ways when under pressure. Why Special Forces go thru so much training. Its like having the giant buck walk out and not being able to pull your bow back that you have done 1000 times in practice.
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Old 04-08-2019, 02:17 PM   #180
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I could not live w myself after reading this... the guy that died actually was walking after the bear attack meaning if they had gone back to help he could have very well been helped back up mountain... i cant believe they called off search that night
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Old 04-08-2019, 02:24 PM   #181
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I could not live w myself after reading this... the guy that died actually was walking after the bear attack meaning if they had gone back to help he could have very well been helped back up mountain... i cant believe they called off search that night
If you read the autopsy report outlining the injuries and opinion of the ME, he did not live very long and by the time the hunter could have gotten back, let alone the search and rescue team, he was likely already dead.

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Old 04-08-2019, 02:27 PM   #182
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Scary stuff. I was about twenty miles away on the day this happened.
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Old 04-08-2019, 02:27 PM   #183
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I could not live w myself after reading this... the guy that died actually was walking after the bear attack meaning if they had gone back to help he could have very well been helped back up mountain... i cant believe they called off search that night
Reading that is a game changer for me
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Old 04-08-2019, 02:46 PM   #184
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How exactly would you have gone back and checked on him? At that point the guy had no defense besides his bare hands. I'm sure it wasn't easy for him to sit idle but what would your plan have been?
I find it hard to believe they had one pistol between two men in bear country. The report does not indicate if there was a rifle or shotgun with the horses and that is key info.
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Old 04-08-2019, 03:04 PM   #185
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I find it hard to believe they had one pistol between two men in bear country. The report does not indicate if there was a rifle or shotgun with the horses and that is key info.
Not sure why you find it hard to believe. The one gun we know of was unloaded and strap to a back pack that they were not wearing at the time. It didnt seem like either planned well for a worse case scenario.
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Old 04-08-2019, 03:11 PM   #186
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I would assume there was no rifle or shotgun. They showed a crossbow on the ground on the drawing but no mention of any other guns.

They also said the guide had taken his shirt off because he got hot working on the elk. The pistol was in a shoulder holster laying on the backpacks probably with his shirt and jacket!

Like the report said this was very unusal behavior for bears. I assume they were extra carefull going into the carcass, but once there they had let their guard down and started working and it cost the guide his life.
I have done the same in Alaska and Colorado. It is hard to quarter an elk/moose with a 12 gauge in one hand. But you can bet I will not be doing this without a large pistol strapped to my hip or over my shoulder ever again!
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Old 04-08-2019, 03:22 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Take Dead Aim View Post
All fair points. I would imagine for 99% dividing 12 by 4 while having a grizzly on or near us would be much harder to do than sitting at a desk and doing the same. It the same as asking someone in a shootout how many times the shot. If not trained for the situation they will answer 2 or 3 when they shot 9 times.

The brain works and doesn't work in mysterious ways when under pressure. Why Special Forces go thru so much training. Its like having the giant buck walk out and not being able to pull your bow back that you have done 1000 times in practice.
I can see that. The first year we hunted Montana I was setup on a wallow where a creek left the north facing timbered slope and entered a meadow. The creek, woods, and meadow all joined. Twenty minutes before dark I hear crunching coming in, not following the elk trail to the wallow but straight through the woods. I can shoot any bull with 5" brows or a cow so I get my release on my loop and start getting tension and positioning toward the sound for a shot. Out walks a Grizzly at 40 yards.

I didn't know you could throw a bow down when wearing a wrist strap but I did. I wheeled and ran about 5 steps or 10 feet before my brain kicked in grabbed my pistol spun and shouted at the bear. I said, "Go away Bear"! I am not lying. As calmly as he walked out he turned around and came back the way he came in.

I WANTED to run and get distance from the bear. I knew that if I continued to run he might chase. As scary as it was to stop and face the bear I knew it was best and did it until he disappeared. After I caught my breath I even sat the wallow the rest of the evening. A spike bull came out and I would have had a clear shot if he had been legal.

The Montana native I hunt with and is also a vendor of mine, has even steelier nerves. One of the reasons I hunt with him! Three years ago he called in two Grizzlies with cow calls. One when I was with him (kinda), one when I wasn't. I never saw either bear but he came swiftly walking out of the brush to let me know a Grizzly was heading my way, to my calling. He went the direction he saw the bear go instead of letting me have a Grizz come down on me by myself. Still a bit scary that even though we were setup only 80 yards apart I never saw the bear that he saw walking my way.

He and I had a long discussion about this attack when I was in at his house in Bozeman. We both agree the hunter in this case broke the 'code'.

Still not taking away from the guides lack of preparation. The WY back country is loaded with bears. He knew they were there and got complacent.
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Old 04-08-2019, 04:01 PM   #188
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I'm not sure why some give the hunter so much grief. For all we know, he was as green as could be and didn't know come here from sic em. He paid the guide to help him kill an elk. That happened and then the SHTF. Guide probably knew he messed up and told him to get the hell out of there. Who knows.

I doubt many guides expect or rely on their clients for their safety. The guide messed up and paid the price. The hunter almost did too. Could the hunter have done more...maybe, maybe not. I see guides in this situation almost like the captain of a ship. If they wreck the ship, it is their responsibility to save the passengers if they can. Which is what I think the guide may have done.

Now I do expect more from my hunting buddies. If the SHTF, we would have each other's back as long as the other partner still had a chance. But at this point, we also aren't planning on hunting in grizz country.
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Old 04-08-2019, 04:37 PM   #189
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[QUOTE=He and I had a long discussion about this attack when I was in at his house in Bozeman. We both agree the hunter in this case broke the 'code'.
[/QUOTE]

What code? I guess I keep getting confused on what yall wanted the hunter to do when he had nothing to engage the bear with. The pistol was closer to bear and guide. There is a second younger bear with the big female. I am not saying what the hunter did was correct as I wasn't there. I just can't figure out what he was supposed to do that was going to make a difference.

I asked this question on one of the old threads about this same incident. What are you doing if you're on a fishing trip with your buddy and he falls in and a great white attacks him? You jumping in to save him?

Last edited by Take Dead Aim; 04-08-2019 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 04-08-2019, 04:44 PM   #190
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What code? I guess I keep getting confused on what yall wanted the hunter to do when he had nothing to engage the bear with. The pistol was closer to bear and guide. There is a second younger bear with the big female. I am not saying what the hunter did was correct as I wasn't there. I just can't figure out what he was supposed to do that was going to make a difference.

I asked this question on one of the old threads about this same incident. What are you doing if your on a fishing trip with your buddy and he falls in and a great white attacks him? You jumping in to save him?
I am a wee bit more nimble on land than in the water.
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:10 PM   #191
BuckSmasher
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What code? I guess I keep getting confused on what yall wanted the hunter to do when he had nothing to engage the bear with. The pistol was closer to bear and guide. There is a second younger bear with the big female. I am not saying what the hunter did was correct as I wasn't there. I just can't figure out what he was supposed to do that was going to make a difference.

I asked this question on one of the old threads about this same incident. What are you doing if you're on a fishing trip with your buddy and he falls in and a great white attacks him? You jumping in to save him?
Both of them had bear spray. Why didn't he use that? Does this guy not only not know how to use a gun he can't use bear spray? He shot the elk with something he must know how to use some weapon. He had the pistol. He could have at LEAST retreated with the pistol and figured it out and came back. He could have hit the bear with a rock, he could have waited away, but within sight and tried to help his buddy once the attack was over. He could have went back after calling for help.

The 'code' is do something that can prevent me from dying if by doing so you don't condemn yourself 100% to dying yourself. This guy did nothing. No spray, no handing of the gun, no returning to help, nothing.

I think we are at loggerheads because I don't see how you don't expect him to do literally ANYTHING.
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:18 PM   #192
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Both of them had bear spray. Why didn't he use that? Does this guy not only not know how to use a gun he can't use bear spray? He shot the elk with something he must know how to use some weapon. He had the pistol. He could have at LEAST retreated with the pistol and figured it out and came back. He could have hit the bear with a rock, he could have waited away, but within sight and tried to help his buddy once the attack was over. He could have went back after calling for help.

The 'code' is do something that can prevent me from dying if by doing so you don't condemn yourself 100% to dying yourself. This guy did nothing. No spray, no handing of the gun, no returning to help, nothing.

I think we are at loggerheads because I don't see how you don't expect him to do literally ANYTHING.
He shot the elk with a crossbow which was found at the scene also.
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:28 PM   #193
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Note to self, never go with Take dead aim fishing or hunting. Your arse is getting left soon as things get hairy, lol.

I don't care what the situation, or how "green" I am in said situation; I'm not leaving another man to die while running like a coward.

Regarding the great white, if there is a chance the man could live and I could play a part in that, you can bet I'll be in that water.

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Old 04-08-2019, 05:45 PM   #194
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Note to self, never go with Take dead aim fishing or hunting. Your arse is getting left soon as things get hairy, lol.

I don't care what the situation, or how "green" I am in said situation; I'm not leaving another man to die while running like a coward.

Regarding the great white, if there is a chance the man could live and I could play a part in that, you can bet I'll be in that water.

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You are so full of it. Nice cop out on "if there is a chance the man could live and I could play a part in that". I bet you watch the movie Jaws ****** off they didn't cast you. So you are jumping in the bloody shark waters? I mean I would do it for my family but not a stranger. I would do many things to save someones life but jumping out of a boat into bloody shark infested waters is not one of them.
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:47 PM   #195
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I'm not sure why some give the hunter so much grief.
Because judgment and armchair quarterbacking are typical forum behavior.
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:47 PM   #196
pilar
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Both of them had bear spray. Why didn't he use that? Does this guy not only not know how to use a gun he can't use bear spray? He shot the elk with something he must know how to use some weapon. He had the pistol. He could have at LEAST retreated with the pistol and figured it out and came back. He could have hit the bear with a rock, he could have waited away, but within sight and tried to help his buddy once the attack was over. He could have went back after calling for help.

The 'code' is do something that can prevent me from dying if by doing so you don't condemn yourself 100% to dying yourself. This guy did nothing. No spray, no handing of the gun, no returning to help, nothing.

I think we are at loggerheads because I don't see how you don't expect him to do literally ANYTHING.
Yep code is “ we go up town together- we go down town together “
Nothing worse then having everyone bail on you when in a tight spot
Been there had that happen
I doubt the guide would have bailed on the hunter

We had a guy get stomped by a BA hog one time at the ranch . I don’t recall any hesitation from me or the other guy with me to get the hog off the poor guy
Common since is defuse the situation ASAP then move forward

Last edited by pilar; 04-08-2019 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 04-08-2019, 06:06 PM   #197
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You are so full of it. Nice cop out on "if there is a chance the man could live and I could play a part in that". I bet you watch the movie Jaws ****** off they didn't cast you. So you are jumping in the bloody shark waters? I mean I would do it for my family but not a stranger. I would do many things to save someones life but jumping out of a boat into bloody shark infested waters is not one of them.
Let's use some logic here. If the man is already bit in half or otherwise very noticeably mortally wounded, no I'm not going in. It's not a "cop out," it's using your head. But yes, I wouldn't think twice about going in.

Let's just conclude we're two different people with two different mentalities when it comes to another's life.

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Old 04-08-2019, 06:14 PM   #198
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Let's use some logic here. If the man is already bit in half or otherwise very noticeably mortally wounded, no I'm not going in. It's not a "cop out," it's using your head. But yes, I wouldn't think twice about going in.

Let's just conclude we're two different people with two different mentalities when it comes to another's life.

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Yes. I tend to be a realist. I would do anything withint my means but at the point I know there is a better chance of dying than living I tend to think twice. If we are in war together then that is something totally different. Back to the subject at hand. I would not have gone up that mountain without some sort of pistol or rifle. I/we would have had a plan.
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Old 04-08-2019, 06:24 PM   #199
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All I know is, that bear is lucky I wasn't there.

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Old 04-08-2019, 07:31 PM   #200
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Just stating the obvious; Once the hunter ran away there is no chance he was coming back. It's sad that a man's life was lost but in some circumstances we as humans are not the top predators. Is those situations, we must be prepared/armed. Sometimes even being prepared/armed won't be enough. It's a choice we all need to think about for the sakes of our families.

Prayers up for the family of the guide.
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