Asa allowing stringwalking

[RickBarbee]

In asa "riser mapping " is illegal and in tbot , it is at least strongly alluded to being illegal. So I guess if people are comfortable with cheating, that is just who they are. And just cause I can't catch them, don't mean they are not cheaters. Kinda like people using their binos as range finders, cheaters gonna cheat....

With that attitude, you might as well come straight out & say gap shooting is illegal also, and if you even think about looking at your arrow you're disqualified, even though there's not a human on the planet who can extend the bow & arrow out in front of their face without them being "well inside" their field of vision, unless they close their eyes, or they are blind.

Strongly alluded to is not a rule.
An unenforceable rule, is not a rule.

If you don't add to, or mark the bow in any way to assist you,
then it is not illegal.

Placing extra marks on your riser is illegal.
Using the natural spots of the riser to do the same thing is not.

Marking your riser is not the same thing as visually mapping your unmarked riser.

Even if visually mapping the natural state of the riser was illegal, how would you enforce the rule?

I guess you could makes rules stating that the risers "all" have to be the same shape, same size, be of an unbroken smooth shape & finish with no color variation, or transitions.
Yeah, that might work ( I doubt it ), but it would eliminate at least 75% (or more) of all the shooters in trad classes across all venues.

The binos thing is a whole different ball of wax.
Even they would have to have marks, or be marked to be remotely reliable. Just have a rule stating that marks on binos which can obviously be used as a range finding tool are strictly prohibited.
That would be easily banned/governed/regulated.
Don't show up with them, and if you do, and get caught using them on a competition course, you get DQed on the spot.
See, that's an easy one.

Rick

Edit for a PS:
I have a set of 10X50 Nikons, that I love.
I use them for hunting, and I use them for 3D to map my spot on the target to aim at.
I've experimented with the above bino as a range finder thing with them.
It don't work. They can focus very differently, and vary as much as 10 yards (or more) from one time to the next.
That don't work so well.

[RJH1]

Whether you feel it is unenforceable or not , it is a rule in asa. If people knowingly break the rule they are cheating. They are in effect stealing points and awards from other shooters. Sometimes rules depend on personal integrity ( that may be spelled wrong) but they are still the rules, and instead of arguing with me about what they are, or it should be, or might as well be, look them up. Gapping is allowed so I don't where that response even came from.

[RickBarbee]

Whether you feel it is unenforceable or not , it is a rule in asa. If people knowingly break the rule they are cheating. They are in effect stealing points and awards from other shooters. Sometimes rules depend on personal integrity ( that may be spelled wrong) but they are still the rules, and instead of arguing with me about what they are, or it should be, or might as well be, look them up. Gapping is allowed so I don't where that response even came from.

Brother, I would not even begin to enter into a debate without knowing my material.

The ASA rule specifically states "No Marks", and means you can't add any marks to the riser in which to use as a sight.

It does not say you cannot use marks that are of the natural state of the riser.

Like I said earlier - If it meant anything otherwise, it would eliminate 75% (or more) of the trad shooters from the class.

Visually mapping the natural state of the riser is not marking the riser, but I digress.

Rick

[RJH1]

Bow must be either recurve or longbow without wheels or cams. No release aid, no sights, a single stabilizer up to 12” in length measured from the point of attachment, no overdraws, no draw checks, must
have one finger touching the arrow nock, and must use one consistent anchor point. No marks on the sight window, string, or bow to use as an aiming or judging reference. All arrows must be identical in
size, weight and construction.


Here are the asa rules copied from their website , notice it says you can't use marks on the riser for sighting aid, it does not specify whether the marks are natural or not, just that they can't be used

[RickBarbee]

Bow must be either recurve or longbow without wheels or cams. No release aid, no sights, a single stabilizer up to 12” in length measured from the point of attachment, no overdraws, no draw checks, must
have one finger touching the arrow nock, and must use one consistent anchor point. No marks on the sight window, string, or bow to use as an aiming or judging reference. All arrows must be identical in
size, weight and construction.


Here are the asa rules copied from their website , notice it says you can't use marks on the riser for sighting aid, it does not specify whether the marks are natural or not, just that they can't be used

The operative words there are "No Marks".

Does that mean a natural grain line of the wood on the belly side of the bow, etc is illegal?

If so, and you want to construe it to mean natural characteristics of change in the risers, or whatever, then you are setting yourself up for a big fall, because like I said - that would eliminate a big chunk of the shooters, whether they are using those characteristics to sight with, or not.

Rick

[RJH1]

The operative words are "can't be used as an a aiming or judging reference"

[RickBarbee]

The operative words are "can't be used as an a aiming or judging reference"

There again - an unenforceable "opinion" of a rule, is just that, an opinion.

What about fancy belly overlays?
A very convincing argument could be made, that they are intentionally placed there for use as a sighting method. Whether you are using them as such (or not) is irrelevant to the debate.

```````````````````

It was recently privately brought to my attention, that I used to have a very different attitude about string walking.

Yes, yes I did, because I didn't understand it, and until you have done it to the point of mastering it, you don't understand it either. I'm so glad I did, and do.

Once I gave it a serious try, I realized how hard it was to do it, and do it right to where it was of any benefit. I changed my mind to a complete turn around in attitude about it.

It takes a tremendous amount of hard work, relearning how to properly tune, and getting your form spot on for it to work.

String walking is "Far Less" forgiving of form flaws, and/or breakdowns in form, than any other method of shooting, Period. You are in effect shooting from a state of detune, and the farther down the string you crawl, the more enhanced that detune becomes. If your form, (and not to mention your distance judging) isn't spot on, then you are wasting your time trying to do it.

If you don't believe that, then I invite you to seriously give it a try. Not some passing glance at it. Give it a try, and master it. If/Once you do, you'll have a different attitude about it too, I guarantee it.

````````````````

I'll also take this opportunity to say, that in the past my disagreement with string walking was born of ignorance, and I regret that. I am extremely happy, that I learned different.

Also, If I ever gave anyone any serious grief/chastisement (I don't think I did) about their string walking, or support there of, I sincerely apologize.

Rick

[RJH1]

There again - an unenforceable "opinion" of a rule, is just that, an opinion.

What about fancy belly overlays?
A very convincing argument could be made, that they are intentionally placed there for use as a sighting method. Whether you are using them as such (or not) is irrelevant to the debate.

```````````````````This reads a lot like "it ain't cheating if you don't get caught" I disagree wholeheartedly, if someone cheats intentionally they are a cheater whether their riser looks like a candy cane or just has a couple of strategically placed overlays. If they are being used for sighting purposes the person is cheating and must be ok with screwing over their fellow competitors RJH

It was recently privately brought to my attention, that I used to have a very different attitude about string walking.

Yes, yes I did, because I didn't understand it, and until you have done it to the point of mastering it, you don't understand it either. I'm so glad I did, and do.

Once I gave it a serious try, I realized how hard it was to do it, and do it right to where it was of any benefit. I changed my mind to a complete turn around in attitude about it.

It takes a tremendous amount of hard work, relearning how to properly tune, and getting your form spot on for it to work.

String walking is "Far Less" forgiving of form flaws, and/or breakdowns in form, than any other method of shooting, Period. You are in effect shooting from a state of detune, and the farther down the string you crawl, the more enhanced that detune becomes. If your form, (and not to mention your distance judging) isn't spot on, then you are wasting your time trying to do it.

If you don't believe that, then I invite you to seriously give it a try. Not some passing glance at it. Give it a try, and master it. If/Once you do, you'll have a different attitude about it too, I guarantee it.

````````````````I hope to try it out, if nothing else this thread has gotten me interested in giving stringwalking a whirl RJH

I'll also take this opportunity to say, that in the past my disagreement with string walking was born of ignorance, and I regret that. I am extremely happy, that I learned different.

Also, If I ever gave anyone any serious grief/chastisement (I don't think I did) about their string walking, or support there of, I sincerely apologize.

Rick

Responses in bold

[RickBarbee]

This reads a lot like "it ain't cheating if you don't get caught" I disagree wholeheartedly, if someone cheats intentionally they are a cheater whether their riser looks like a candy cane or just has a couple of strategically placed overlays. If they are being used for sighting purposes the person is cheating and must be ok with screwing over their fellow competitors RJH

Well, I don't know how else to put it.

If you want to call someone a cheater, even though they aren't using any different equipment than you, and (string walking aside) even though they are addressing/holding the string the same as you, then that's your prerogative.

My prerogative is to believe they are just better shooters.

This was (I think) productive, interesting, and enjoyable for a while.

There's really nothing left to be said. Once the name calling starts, and the accusations start flying ( and yes, you did ), the debate is rendered useless, so I'm out.

Rick

[RJH1]

Well, I don't know how else to put it.

If you want to call someone a cheater, even though they aren't using any different equipment than you, and (string walking aside) even though they are addressing/holding the string the same as you, then that's your prerogative.

My prerogative is to believe they are just better shooters.

This was (I think) productive, interesting, and enjoyable for a while.

There's really nothing left to be said. Once the name calling starts, and the accusations start flying ( and yes, you did ), the debate is rendered useless, so I'm out.

Rick

I looked back over the thread and don't see that i called you any names. I did notice that you started the thread derailment on post 24 when the original topic was about a new class that i thought some of the trad shooters here might me interested in but, whatever

[RickBarbee]

I looked back over the thread and don't see that i called you any names. I did notice that you started the thread derailment on post 24 when the original topic was about a new class that i thought some of the trad shooters here might me interested in but, whatever

Derail?
Any time you post about something new, and expect folks who are involved (or want to be involved) to not give an opinion on it, then you're living in a fantasy world.

You need to read it all again, pay better attention to what I said, and especially to your responses.

I gave KUDOS to the ASA for working toward making it better, then gave my opinions, and suggestions as to what I thought would make it even better.
You disagreed. That's fine.

I openly admitted, that I will find, and "mentally map" natural spots on my riser to use for different distances. No added, or unnatural marks. Just using what is already there. We have a different interpretation of the rule, and you say that is cheating, therefore in your opinion I am a cheater.
That's fine too.

Now, I'm really out of this one for good.
I started to PM you this response, but I didn't want it misinterpreted as harassment of some kind.

Rick

[RJH1]

I will leave on this one too, but i do want you note to that i only pointed out rules. I was very careful not to call personally a cheater. But I will keep the opinion if someone knowingly breaks the rules they are cheating, and there is no way to really sugar coat that.

Fair enough on the derailment aspect, i might have been guilty of that a time or two too HAHA

I also want to say we may never agree on this, but i am ok with that and you can PM anytime and i wouldn't think it was harassing haha

Have a good one, I am going to shoot :-)

[DRT]

I believe Rick is a man of integrity. He may hold a position someone may not agree with. Me for example. He may outshoot my *** on a regular basis.
But he is an honest man. I would not accuse him of cheating.
RJ it's not a thread to go the way you intended but honestly it's a discussion that has to happen.
I've never met Rick. But I don't believe he has animosity towards anyone here. This is how evolution happens. Painfully. Violently sometimes. But we need to stay together in it because the percentage of us compared to the wheels is small. And in fighting and name calling doesn't help us.

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[RJH1]

This is really my last post on this :-)

DRT, just to clarify i know Rick personally and would be glad to shoot with him anytime. He is a dang good guy, but that don't mean we are always going to agree on everything, how boring would that be haha.

I am done now for real, i think ;-)

[DRT]

[emoji16][emoji23]🤣

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