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Old 02-15-2017, 08:37 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Codie View Post
I don't - so sick of hearing of him withdrawing from tournaments with back spasms (ONLY WHEN HE IS PLAYING BAD) it is not even funny.

Maybe he will take over and make Johnny Miller vanish from golf broadcasting! I would LOVE him if he would do that
I'd kiss TW on the mouth if he pushed JM out of broadcasting.
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Old 02-15-2017, 08:52 PM   #152
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He thought he was untouchable. Worked for a while, until a eastern European girl rung his bell and that showed the world he was a dirtbag as far as a family man goes. I respect him as a golfer, thas about it. It was more fun watching tournaments when he was in top form. But i can't say i wouldn't have done similar ifi was in his shoes, along with 95% of men in the world, much less on this site.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:05 PM   #153
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He thought he was untouchable. Worked for a while, until a eastern European girl rung his bell and that showed the world he was a dirtbag as far as a family man goes. I respect him as a golfer, thas about it. It was more fun watching tournaments when he was in top form. But i can't say i wouldn't have done similar ifi was in his shoes, along with 95% of men in the world, much less on this site.
Scandinavia isn't eastern Europe.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:19 PM   #154
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I'd kiss TW on the mouth if he pushed JM out of broadcasting.
Me Too
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:20 PM   #155
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I would love to see a lot of guys come back. Always cool to see a comeback story. Aaron Watson prime example. Or Willie. Or Cash.

Not to mention, Tiger made the sport of golf cool again. Look how many kids started playing after watching him? Why do you think there are all these young guys playing now that can out drive Tiger even when he was at his best?
I never knew Aaron Watson left. Confused???
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:53 PM   #156
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Tiger's health is obviously a problem, but not why he's playing so inconsistently. He's got the yips on the tee box. Big-time. Hard to post good scores when your 2nd shot so frequently has to be hacked out of the rough.
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Old 02-15-2017, 10:13 PM   #157
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Tigers health is THE issue. Been blind long? At least we witnessed his best and one of the best.

Phil is really hanging on his last thread now, Rory isn't what media writes he is, Fowler's hype is just as weak as Rory's...

New regime is developing. It's going to be a real race this year and after
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:35 PM   #158
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lol the "he will shatter jacks record" crowd will never be wrong.
he is still the greatest.
he re-invented the game.
you can see he is in pain [after hitting it in the woods]
if his knee/back/neck/wrist blah blah blah
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:37 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Pope & Yum View Post
If he gets healthy and starts hanging around those high dollar "escorts", he will end up besting Jack's record...




With that being said, he is done. Golf is 100% mental and he is not even at 50%.
No kidding. He needs to start banging high dollar hookers again
I feel that would do his mental game wonders
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:55 PM   #160
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I'm seeing an opportunity here to possibly unload some lightly used hybrids to him if he keeps shooting 75's. Just have to find a waitress at Perkin's to make the sale.
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:30 AM   #161
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Tigers health is THE issue. Been blind long? At least we witnessed his best and one of the best.

Phil is really hanging on his last thread now, Rory isn't what media writes he is, Fowler's hype is just as weak as Rory's...

New regime is developing. It's going to be a real race this year and after
Answer: Jordan Speith
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:39 AM   #162
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Answer: Jordan Speith
Add DJohnson and JDay to that.
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:50 AM   #163
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I wouldn't count him out.
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:59 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by tigerscowboy View Post
Add DJohnson and JDay to that.
Rory has the most skill out of any golfer in the world but he's a streaky player and when he's a little off it can be no Bueno.

DJ is one of my favorites, he's a very humble guy, met him twice, once at the colonial and once at a Taylormade Clinic, he is the most raw skill/talent and surprisingly one of the best work ethics on tour

Watch out for the name Ollie Schniederjans in the coming years, he will be a fan favorite and a top 10 golfer, hes Jordan spieths age but comes from a strong amateur background....
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:59 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by 16ncs View Post
I'm seeing an opportunity here to possibly unload some lightly used hybrids to him if he keeps shooting 75's. Just have to find a waitress at Perkin's to make the sale.
Let me rummage thru them first
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:01 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by tigerscowboy View Post
Tigers health is THE issue. Been blind long? At least we witnessed his best and one of the best.

Phil is really hanging on his last thread now, Rory isn't what media writes he is, Fowler's hype is just as weak as Rory's...

New regime is developing. It's going to be a real race this year and after
its crazy how blind they are with the real issue on why tiger has faded right now...I posted a picture with tiger on it with all the surgeries hes had done, its more than most NFL football players.....oh but the divorce is the reason why he's faded lol, good grief..people crack me up
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:59 AM   #167
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NIKE dropped out of the Golf Equipment business - it was centered around Tiger now, it's a HAS BEEN like Tiger's golf game.

There's only one King - records made with inferior equipment I might add!
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:04 AM   #168
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NIKE dropped out of the Golf Equipment business - it was centered around Tiger now, it's a HAS BEEN like Tiger's golf game.

There's only one King - records made with inferior equipment I might add!
If anyone these days played with the equipment of the 70's and 80's would have a hard time setting records.
But, the competition of those days was not near what it is today either (I don't believe)
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:12 AM   #169
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Me Too
I think yall are just look'n for an excuse to make out with Tiger Woods
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:17 AM   #170
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its crazy how blind they are with the real issue on why tiger has faded right now...I posted a picture with tiger on it with all the surgeries hes had done, its more than most NFL football players.....oh but the divorce is the reason why he's faded lol, good grief..people crack me up
Most all golfers have injuries. Some very serious and still come back and win Majors - ask Ben Hogan. Injuries are a part of Tiger's problems but they aren't his Major problem. It is his mental game that he has lost. He could will the ball into the hole and make mortal men break under the pressure. That is gone now. I hope he gets it back here and there and makes a couple more runs. But it is hard to get it back when he and his playing partners know that he is not superman anymore. Jack got it back for a weekend when he was 46. Tom Watson almost did in his late 50's. Time will tell.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:19 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by ghostgoblin22 View Post
Rory has the most skill out of any golfer in the world but he's a streaky player and when he's a little off it can be no Bueno.



DJ is one of my favorites, he's a very humble guy, met him twice, once at the colonial and once at a Taylormade Clinic, he is the most raw skill/talent and surprisingly one of the best work ethics on tour



Watch out for the name Ollie Schniederjans in the coming years, he will be a fan favorite and a top 10 golfer, hes Jordan spieths age but comes from a strong amateur background....


If sleeping with tour players wives and doing a bunch of drugs is humble, I now see why your such a Tiger fanboy. I will say it again, I am a tiger fan but it's ridiculous to not think Tiger is affected by his turmoil. I agree with above poster that he pulls out for back spasms whenever he is scoring poorly. Anyone can act like their back hurts when they swing. I hope he comes back and starts winning again.


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Old 02-16-2017, 10:22 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by flywise View Post
If anyone these days played with the equipment of the 70's and 80's would have a hard time setting records.
But, the competition of those days was not near what it is today either (I don't believe)
Jack's THE GREATEST EVER. There is no discussion or debate to be had.

Arnie's one of the greatest too, but also one of the BEST PEOPLE. His social impact can't be touched or measured.

Playing fields have been level for players in respect to their generation/time of play. Sure, some new record low rounds are posted each year by both men and women. Technology has improved equipment while the courses have also been made longer and more difficult.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:23 AM   #173
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There's only one King - records made with inferior equipment I might add!
]
And much weaker fields of players, and much shorter courses.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:23 AM   #174
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Most all golfers have injuries. Some very serious and still come back and win Majors - ask Ben Hogan. Injuries are a part of Tiger's problems but they aren't his Major problem. It is his mental game that he has lost. He could will the ball into the hole and make mortal men break under the pressure. That is gone now. I hope he gets it back here and there and makes a couple more runs. But it is hard to get it back when he and his playing partners know that he is not superman anymore. Jack got it back for a weekend when he was 46. Tom Watson almost did in his late 50's. Time will tell.
yeah ben Hogan was healthy again when he won late in his career, so did tom Watson, so was jack, tigers back is gone, if he can get completely healthy he will win again, confidence has a lot to do with being healthy, if you're not healthy every golfer will say it destroys your confidence. Think clearly people
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:25 AM   #175
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Jack's THE GREATEST EVER. There is no discussion or debate to be had.

Arnie's one of the greatest too, but also one of the BEST PEOPLE. His social impact can't be touched or measured.

Playing fields have been level for players in respect to their generation/time of play. Sure, some new record low rounds are posted each year by both men and women. Technology has improved equipment while the courses have also been made longer and more difficult.
Sam Snead still holds the wins record, there is certainly a debate that could be made.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:29 AM   #176
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If sleeping with tour players wives and doing a bunch of drugs is humble, I now see why your such a Tiger fanboy. I will say it again, I am a tiger fan but it's ridiculous to not think Tiger is affected by his turmoil. I agree with above poster that he pulls out for back spasms whenever he is scoring poorly. Anyone can act like their back hurts when they swing. I hope he comes back and starts winning again.


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Ok Mr. perfect, I've tried to play with back spasms, its impossible, its all opinion trying to say his play was effected by the divorce, but the facts are his health has forced him to change his swing multiple times creating confidence issues in itself and his back still hasn't recovered....its that simple, think clearly people...I now see why you don't understand sports.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:35 AM   #177
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Sam Snead still holds the wins record, there is certainly a debate that could be made.
Majors?
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:38 AM   #178
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Not me. What a useless husband he turned out to be.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:41 AM   #179
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yeah ben Hogan was healthy again when he won late in his career, so did tom Watson, so was jack, tigers back is gone, if he can get completely healthy he will win again, confidence has a lot to do with being healthy, if you're not healthy every golfer will say it destroys your confidence. Think clearly people
I agree with you,but Freddie Couples comes to mind when I start hearing people talk about Tiger's bad back..He fought it off,and still won from time to time.

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Old 02-16-2017, 10:44 AM   #180
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And much weaker fields of players, and much shorter courses.
Yup but...if you lose it off the fairway with TODAY'S GEAR....Back then, you couldn't find the ball.

Jack could smash it 345 yards with PERSIMMON, STEEL, LEATHER and BALATA. He did it one time, at a PGA event...during the days, each PGA Event had a long drive contest. He only did it one time and smacked it 345 down the middle, won the long drive...and never did it again. It wasn't Jack's style.

We must remember, when Jack won the 1986 Masters @ 46 years old, he played against a new field of talent. And he also played against some of the top 20 golfers of all time, who in their own right, have set records beyond the new crowd now.

And then he went into the PGA Seniors Tour - and continued to smash them over 50 years old.

So let's see if Tiger can make a cut at 50 plus?

Trevino, Player & Palmer continued to smoke them in the Senior tour events past 50.


Watson
Snead
Hogan
Trevino
Player
Palmer
Floyd
Casper
Ballesteros
Miller
Faldo
Norman

Just to name a few.

Last edited by AtTheWall; 02-16-2017 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:45 AM   #181
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Majors?
7, but just like everything else people try to compare it isn't a fair comparison. Jack played substantially more majors than Sam. Sam only went to the Open 5 times.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:49 AM   #182
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As usual, this thread got off track a long time ago. The question was, does anybody care if Tiger comes back or not? Nobody questions Tiger's impact on golf while he was playing at a high level, but that is not now. He will never play at a high level for any extended period of time ever again. His swing mechanics and his inability to rationally diagnosis his physical problems, will not allow him to get healthy enough to survive on tour. That is just fact.
Titleist, Ping, Calloway are not going away. The other golf companies that are in trouble might not make it but it is not because golf itself is in trouble. The PGA tour is at its highest point ever. Tournament money is also holding strong as is tournament spectator numbers. The "Young Guns" will take the PGA tour into the future.
Jordan Speith is ever bit as good as Tiger was at his age. Tiger had 1 more win overall but Jordan has won 2 majors to Tiger's one at the same age. Jordan has more top 10s and more top 5s than Tiger had, also. Jordan will not grow the games like Tiger did but that is only because the game had room for a lot more growth when Tiger started than it does now with Jordan. Anybody who thinks that golf is going to decline is not living in the real world.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:50 AM   #183
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I agree with you,but Freddie Couples comes to mind when I start hearing people talk about Tiger's bad back..He fought it off,and still won from time to time.

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Freddie's swing allows him to be very good at the late stages of his career and it's easy on the back, think about tigers swing over the years, how violent it was, that swing isn't back friendly in the late stages of a golfers career, so right now he's battling old swing habits along with a terrible back, he's having to adjust everything so he can compete in his 40's


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Old 02-16-2017, 10:52 AM   #184
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And much weaker fields of players, and much shorter courses.
It's apples to oranges.

Weaker field of players? One could make an argument that the current field of players is better than it was when Tiger was in his prime.

Shorter courses? Sure, but what about inferior equipment? Club and ball technology has come a good ways even since the 80's. It can't be denied that players hit the ball further today because of better equipment.

Bottom line, you can't really compare 2 different generations of players. This applies for most sports. All that can be said is most certainly some of these players maintained a level of dominance over the other competition.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:53 AM   #185
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Yup but...if you lose it off the fairway with TODAY'S GEAR....Back then, you couldn't find the ball.

Jack could smash it 345 yards with PERSIMMON, STEEL, LEATHER and BALATA. He did it one time, at a PGA event...during the days, each PGA Event had a long drive contest. He only did it one time and smacked it 345 down the middle, won the long drive...and never did it again. It wasn't Jack's style.

We must remember, when Jack won the 1986 Masters @ 46 years old, he played against a new field of talent. And he also played against some of the top 20 golfers of all time, who in their own right, have set records beyond the new crowd now.

And then he went into the PGA Seniors Tour - and continued to smash them over 50 years old.

So let's see if Tiger can make a cut at 50 plus?

Trevino, Player & Palmer continued to smoke them in the Senior tour events past 50.


Watson
Snead
Hogan
Trevino
Player
Palmer
Floyd
Casper
Ballesteros
Miller
Faldo
Norman

Just to name a few.
And they didn't have a fubar'd back.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:57 AM   #186
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yeah ben Hogan was healthy again when he won late in his career, so did tom Watson, so was jack, tigers back is gone, if he can get completely healthy he will win again, confidence has a lot to do with being healthy, if you're not healthy every golfer will say it destroys your confidence. Think clearly people
You definitely haven't studied a lot of golf history if you think Ben Hogan was healthy after his wreck and won most of his majors.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:58 AM   #187
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It's apples to oranges.

Weaker field of players? One could make an argument that the current field of players is better than it was when Tiger was in his prime. It absolutely is better now.

Shorter courses? Sure, but what about inferior equipment? Club and ball technology has come a good ways even since the 80's. It can't be denied that players hit the ball further today because of better equipment. Sure they hit the ball farther, and that helps more than my next point, but they lost a bunch of control when lowering the spin

Bottom line, you can't really compare 2 different generations of players. This applies for most sports. All that can be said is most certainly some of these players maintained a level of dominance over the other competition.I agree 100% which is why saying Jack is absolutely the greatest of all time and no argument can be made against it is a dumb statement.
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Old 02-16-2017, 11:02 AM   #188
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Majors

Jack won 18 of 164

Sam Snead won 7 of 118

Tiger won 14 of 76

To say Jack is the greatest because he won more majors is ridiculous.
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Old 02-16-2017, 11:03 AM   #189
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You definitely haven't studied a lot of golf history if you think Ben Hogan was healthy after his wreck and won most of his majors.


Yeah I actually do, he may have not been 100% but his swing was healthy, he didn't have to change swings like tiger has too, that's fact, I know very well of hogan.


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Old 02-16-2017, 11:18 AM   #190
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Yeah I actually do, he may have not been 100% but his swing was healthy, he didn't have to change swings like tiger has too, that's fact, I know very well of hogan.


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From a Golf Digest article.

A Hogan biographer, Curt Sampson, posits that the damage to Hogan's left-eye vision in the accident was the source of his increasing struggles on the greens during the '50s and '60s -- most notably a tendency to freeze over putts before managing a jerky stroke.

As far as Hogan's swing, only the closest eye could detect any difference in his action in the early years of his comeback. Venturi, however, was aware of a foreboding truth. "Ben never again felt really good physically on the golf course," he says. "Something was different. He overcame it with his mind and his guts and his talent, but he knew he had lost something."

According to Hogan biographer James Dodson, Hogan told Claude Harmon and close friend Marvin Leonard that the damage to his knees and pelvis had reduced his hip turn through the ball and shortened the average length of his drive by about a dozen yards. To compensate, Hogan narrowed his stance slightly, but the marginally less dynamic swing produced more control and consistency. It was what Tiger Woods discovered when he softened his hitting action to compensate for a torn ACL in the summer of 2007 and went on to win 10 of 13 tournaments. Cary Middlecoff believed Hogan hit fewer poor shots after 1950, if perhaps not as many great ones.

Hogan also put on 20 or so pounds after the accident, some as a result of having to be less active and some because of a new regimen of strength training that Snead thought helped. In any case, the extra bulk might have allowed Hogan to maintain his length with less effort. Also, for what it's worth, at the beginning of 1953 Hogan stopped playing the MacGregor golf ball, widely considered by players of the time to be inferior, and won his Triple Crown playing Titleist.

As impressive as Hogan was to watch, after his victory at Carnoustie in the only British Open he ever played, he won only one more tournament, the 1959 Colonial. It supports the argument that Hogan's achievements from 1950 through 1953 were more than anything a triumph of will, one that couldn't overcome the gathering physical and mental toll of the accident.

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Old 02-16-2017, 11:24 AM   #191
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A Hogan biographer, Curt Sampson, posits that the damage to Hogan's left-eye vision in the accident was the source of his increasing struggles on the greens during the '50s and '60s -- most notably a tendency to freeze over putts before managing a jerky stroke.



As far as Hogan's swing, only the closest eye could detect any difference in his action in the early years of his comeback. Venturi, however, was aware of a foreboding truth. "Ben never again felt really good physically on the golf course," he says. "Something was different. He overcame it with his mind and his guts and his talent, but he knew he had lost something."



According to Hogan biographer James Dodson, Hogan told Claude Harmon and close friend Marvin Leonard that the damage to his knees and pelvis had reduced his hip turn through the ball and shortened the average length of his drive by about a dozen yards. To compensate, Hogan narrowed his stance slightly, but the marginally less dynamic swing produced more control and consistency. It was what Tiger Woods discovered when he softened his hitting action to compensate for a torn ACL in the summer of 2007 and went on to win 10 of 13 tournaments. Cary Middlecoff believed Hogan hit fewer poor shots after 1950, if perhaps not as many great ones.



Hogan also put on 20 or so pounds after the accident, some as a result of having to be less active and some because of a new regimen of strength training that Snead thought helped. In any case, the extra bulk might have allowed Hogan to maintain his length with less effort. Also, for what it's worth, at the beginning of 1953 Hogan stopped playing the MacGregor golf ball, widely considered by players of the time to be inferior, and won his Triple Crown playing Titleist.



As impressive as Hogan was to watch, after his victory at Carnoustie in the only British Open he ever played, he won only one more tournament, the 1959 Colonial. It supports the argument that Hogan's achievements from 1950 through 1953 were more than anything a triumph of will, one that couldn't overcome the gathering physical and mental toll of the accident.


You're quoting something I already know, I did a thesis on Hogan in college. His mental toughness is why he's considered one of the greatest, but like I said he didn't have to change swings, everything stayed the same, tiger is having to change everything,along side with a terrible back, high scores are imminent. I wouldn't question tigers mental when he's won 100 times worldwide.


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Old 02-16-2017, 11:32 AM   #192
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You're quoting something I already know, I did a thesis on Hogan in college. His mental toughness is why he's considered one of the greatest, but like I said he didn't have to change swings, everything stayed the same, tiger is having to change everything,along side with a terrible back, high scores are imminent. I wouldn't question tigers mental when he's won 100 times worldwide.


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Tiger used to have that mental toughness but he lost it after the 9 iron to the forehead. A bad back doesn't make you yip your chip shots and putts. Something he used to be the best at. Tiger has changed coaches and swings many times. Maybe some of his swing changes were due to injury but I think most were mental and trying to find a new coach with a new swing that could capture that lightning in a bottle.
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Old 02-16-2017, 11:34 AM   #193
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Tiger used to have that mental toughness but he lost it after the 9 iron to the forehead. A bad back doesn't make you yip your chip shots and putts. Something he used to be the best at. Tiger has changed coaches and swings many times. Maybe some of his swing changes were due to injury but I think most were mental and trying to find a new coach with a new swing that could capture that lightning in a bottle.


That's your opinion which your entitled too, talk to golf pro or insider they will side with injuries, the yips have nothing to do with a 9 iron the forehead


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Old 02-16-2017, 11:48 AM   #194
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That's your opinion which your entitled too, talk to golf pro or insider they will side with injuries, the yips have nothing to do with a 9 iron the forehead


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No, the yips have everything to do with being indecisive and losing your mojo. The kind of thing that happens when Earl has you built up and brainwashed that you are the greatest golfer, person, humanitarian the earth has ever seen. Then it comes out that you are a real person that makes really big mistakes. The guy was very sheltered as a child and young person. He has a lot of mental issues that I think contributed to his game slipping more than any injury. But I'm no pro golfer so it is just my opinion.
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Old 02-16-2017, 11:49 AM   #195
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Read today that the doctors are telling Tiger to stay horizontal but somehow they expect to be back at Bay Hill.

He need to hang it up and enjoy his kids and money.

Or figure out how to take his 75% power driving range swing to the course and play the courses like Furyk.
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Old 02-16-2017, 11:53 AM   #196
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No, the yips have everything to do with being indecisive and losing your mojo. The kind of thing that happens when Earl has you built up and brainwashed that you are the greatest golfer, person, humanitarian the earth has ever seen. Then it comes out that you are a real person that makes really big mistakes. The guy was very sheltered as a child and young person. He has a lot of mental issues that I think contributed to his game slipping more than any injury. But I'm no pro golfer so it is just my opinion.
to a degree you're correct, he was sheltered, and yes I'm sure the whole ordeal shook his confidence, but the one year he was healthy after that incident he won 5 times, and became number 1 in the world again...he's been healthy 2 seasons since his last major....that will create confidence issues, swing issues, and the list goes on..
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Old 02-16-2017, 11:59 AM   #197
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And they didn't have a fubar'd back.
And they didn't have SWING COACHES, COMPUTER MODELING & or EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERS leveraging computer modeling technologies to optimize gear to swing tempos.

Note stat number two in Jack's MAJOR RECORD.

Nicklaus finished 1st place in 18 MAJORS
Nicklaus finished 2nd place in 19 MAJORS.
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:03 PM   #198
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And they didn't have SWING COACHES, COMPUTER MODELING & or EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERS leveraging computer modeling technologies to optimize gear to swing tempos.

Note stat number two in Jack's MAJOR RECORD.

Nicklaus finished 1st place in 18 MAJORS
Nicklaus finished 2nd place in 19 MAJORS.
See post #188
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:08 PM   #199
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See post 167
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:13 PM   #200
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And I can add.....when Jack won 18 Majors and finished 2nd in 19 Majors

The guys he played against had more MAJOR WINS in the group that played against him...meaning, they had Major playing experience with WINS meaning, these guys didn't fold like a CHEAP SUIT ON SUNDAY!

You can slice it anyway you want about players now versus then but, then - the best players had what it took to take a MAJOR CHAMPIONSHIP. Their experience at that level far surpassed the up and coming KIDS Tiger played against. The 10 or so group of guys, who each in their own right, held many Majors under their belts, gave Jack a run for his money...Major after Major - the same 10 or so guys with each, well capable of handling 4 days of MAJOR Play without blowing up and with MAJOR records under their belts.

That's the DIFFERENCE

Jack played years and years more than Tiger at a supreme level - this says a lot about Jack's play.

And the back stuff....you have to swing within your physique to play decades - Jack got it, Tiger doesn't get it. Jack played at 1/2 throttle and this approach allowed him to play well into his 50s at a very high level. Jack was the smarter player.

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