Looks legal to me
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definatly legalComment
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legal - fire away!Comment
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I think he's legal.Comment
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I have a 99% accurate way for you to check. I scaled his spread against that tree and they are exactly the same down to a milimeter. Go measure that tree and see what you come up with. He is behind the tree so his rack will be slightly larger than it is in the pic compared to the tree. If the tree is 13"+ no worries.Comment
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rouge, you're brilliant. I can do that this afternoon. Not sure why I didn't think of that. I had a dang photogrammetry course in college after all! ha, ha.
JohnComment
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I don't mind the AR, but I agree that kids under 18 should be exempt from it. I think that would be simple enough to do, and enforce.The AR really sucks for kids because it is a real let down when you have to give your kids the tumbs down on the shot.
Also, we have a stud of a deer running around that is a big 5 points on one side and a huge 10" spike (get this...) with a BROW TINE on the other. So, he's not legal, even though he has a 10" spike on one side and the other side is half of a 130 class deer. He's at least 4.5 years old too. I watched him under my stand for at least 10 minutes last Sun. morning and just shook my head the whole time.
If the point behind AR's is to manage the herd for better bucks, then he should have been shot !
JohnComment
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Thwack! He's good to go!Comment
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If you think AR is to manage for better bucks you don't understand the restriction. It is intended to manage for a better age structure of the herd. And because of that, bucks and does are allowed to mature. For the bucks, it means better racks. BUT it is not intended to create bigger racks, it is hoping to prevent 10 inch 1.5 and 2.5 yo 8 point bucks from getting shot.Originally posted by Limbwalker View Post
And how would a GW regulate who is shooting under sized deer if anyone under 18 was exempt from AR? And as far as that buck you reference, how do you know he doesn't have an injury to the pedicel causing the spiked side? And he is just one of thousands of deer breeding thousands of does. His impact is negligible to the overall herd. You couldn't even tell which younger deer are his.
Oh and I think that deer is legal! Good luck to your daughter getting him.Comment
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I'd understand your points a little better if you could just be a little more condescending in your posts.
Thanks. I think I understand deer biology and management just fine, esp. considering I was the lead research tech for Dr. James Kroll in the late 80's.
Would love to hear how AR's lead to more mature does...
Enforcing the AR for adult hunters is no more a problem than any other challenge in conservation law enforcement. And yea, I happen to have a little experience in that area too.
At least that part of your post I appreciate. thanks!Oh and I think that deer is legal! Good luck to your daughter getting him.
JohnLast edited by Limbwalker; 10-10-2012, 12:44 PM.Comment
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Was curious about that statement also lol.Originally posted by Limbwalker View Post
TBH the rule does both equally well. manages an older herd and manages larger racks. but it fails in both equally aswell. I have seen 2 YO bucks with legal racks and I have seen 6 YO bucks with illegal racks. Sometimes deer racks grow striaght up. I shot a beautiful 5.5 yo 9 point a few years back that was only 12" inside but he was the tallest rack ive ever personally shot. (this was before the AR rules)
So neither answer is right or wrong... What can be pointed out as wrong was the uncalled for attitude in your reply to the post. He wasnt quoting law by any means or making a big fuss. You took an offhand comment in a polite conversation and decided to use it to start an argument for no reason... Shame =(
As for the last comment about a GW tracking who shoots what. They already do they. They can no more keep track of over 18 year olds shooting what than they can under 18 year olds shooting what. Remember anyone can break the law if they dont get caught. However the difference is if your under 18 and you are exempt and shoot a 10" buck and a GW stops you then your fine. Most of the people on this site are ethical hunters so we can exclude from the conversation the possibility of someone over 18 shooting an illegal buck then tagging it with their daughters tag. because lets be honest... he could shoot 6 deer a year out of the forest useing that same method and nobody cares to mention that.Last edited by roguecraft101; 10-10-2012, 01:34 PM.Comment
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No doubt legal. Hope your daughter gets a shot at him.
As far as AR goes, there are ups and downs for sure but what can't be argued is the large increase in the average gross B&C score of bucks killed in county's that have had the program. Give them time and they will grow.Comment
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it will be close but i would say 13.2"
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25 years ago, James Kroll was preaching AGE, NUTRITION AND GENETICS, in that order, to grow trophy whitetails. Nothing has changed in those 25 years. Age is still the greatest determining factor, and genetics is the least important of the three. And to that end, AR's do a good job of keeping young bucks alive - which is a good thing.
Where it fails is when a mature buck (4.5 yrs. plus) is STILL not considered a legal animal. That is unfortunate.
As for the under 18 being exempt, we allow minors to do ALL SORTS OF THINGS in the outdoors that adults can't do, for the future of conservation and hunting. This would be no different, and no more difficult to enforce.
JohnComment
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Yes, legalComment
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