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    #31
    I’m going to shoot that ‘inferior ‘ buck to improve the genetics on my ranch. But I’m shooting that trophy cause...he’s a trophy. Hmmm seems counterintuitive to me.


    Every study without fail I have ever seen showes culling a genetic impossibility.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Encinal View Post
      O. v. borealis – northern white-tailed deer (the largest and darkest of the white-tailed deer)
      O. v. carminis – Carmen Mountains white-tailed deer (Texas-Mexico border)
      O. v. clavium – Key deer or Florida Keys white-tailed deer (the smallest North American subspecies, found in the lower Florida Keys; an example of insular dwarfism)
      O. v. chiriquensis – Chiriqui white-tailed deer (Panama)
      O. v. couesi – Coues' white-tailed deer, Arizona white-tailed deer, or fantail deer
      O. v. dakotensis – Dakota white-tailed deer or northern plains white-tailed deer (most northerly distribution, rivals the northern white-tailed deer in size)
      O. v. hiltonensis – Hilton Head Island white-tailed deer
      O. v. idahoensis – white-tailed deer (western Canada, Idaho, eastern Washington)[7]
      O. v. leucurus – Columbian white-tailed deer (Oregon and western coastal area)
      O. v. macrourus – Kansas white-tailed deer
      O. v. mcilhennyi – Avery Island white-tailed deer
      O. v. mexicanus – Mexican white-tailed deer (central Mexico)
      O. v. miquihuanensis – Miquihuan white-tailed deer (central Mexico)
      O. v. nelsoni – Chiapas white-tailed deer (southern Mexico and Guatemala)
      O. v. nigribarbis – Blackbeard Island white-tailed deer
      O. v. oaxacensis – Oaxaca white-tailed deer (southern Mexico)
      O. v. ochrourus – northwestern white-tailed deer or northern Rocky Mountains white-tailed deer
      O. v. osceola – Florida coastal white-tailed deer
      O. v. rothschildi – Coiba Island white-tailed deer
      O. v. seminolus – Florida white-tailed deer
      O. v. sinaloae – Sinaloa white-tailed deer (midwestern Mexico)
      O. v. taurinsulae – Bulls Island white-tailed deer (Bulls Island, South Carolina)
      O. v. texanus – Texas white-tailed deer
      O. v. thomasi – Mexican lowland white-tailed deer
      O. v. toltecus – rain forest white-tailed deer (southern Mexico)
      O. v. truei – Central American white-tailed deer (Costa Rica, Nicaragua and adjacent states)
      O. v. venatorius – Hunting Island white-tailed deer (Hunting Island, South Carolina)
      O. v. veraecrucis – northern Veracruz white-tailed deer
      O. v. virginianus – Virginia white-tailed deer or southern white-tailed deer
      O. v. yucatanensis – Yucatán white-tailed deer


      Thats how.

      You don't get to promote science, then call them all the same thing because that's what a scoring system says.

      You chose a phenotipic trait you liked, then crossbred that phenotipic trait with climactic adaptation of another subspecies. Good job. Fascinating. All of those things. But don't compare breeder deer with native deer.

      Your specific breeder deer need to be compared with all the rest, then your community can tell us who is the best and we will pay attention to them as the best of the best of the breeders.

      You don't get to dump an elephant into the hippo pond and brag about having the best long nosed hippo.
      Thanks for the compliment.
      The only way we can tell which deer I have released on the ranch is the ear tag, and of course the LARGER antlers.
      Other than that they are indistinguishable from our so called native South Texas deer.
      Same color, 4 legs, 2 eyes, 2 ears, 1 nose, 1 mouth, etc etc. Just BIGGER antlers

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Jamesl View Post
        Would you leave any of these deer pictured below running around on your property? I am thinking you would say no, that you would kill (cull) them from the herd. And there would be several reasons for this. Taking a mouth out of the equation, mature bucks dispersing younger bucks to new areas and undesirable genetics. If a buck is dead prior to the rut, then he will not breed that year and the years after. Yes he has bred since he was 1.5 yrs old and has made a few bucks and does with his genetic characteristics. But you can't say that by killing true inferior bucks, you don't help the herd a little bit.
        I would have no problem letting them live on my place. if I killed them I would not call them culls. I would call them bucks. the most important thing is to keep population numbers balanced age and sex wise. if a buck is 5.5 or older he is a shooter. absolutely nothing under 4.5 dies

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by bukkskin View Post
          Thanks for the compliment.
          The only way we can tell which deer I have released on the ranch is the ear tag, and of course the LARGER antlers.
          Other than that they are indistinguishable from our so called native South Texas deer.
          Same color, 4 legs, 2 eyes, 2 ears, 1 nose, 1 mouth, etc etc. Just BIGGER antlers
          Bet you $1000 I could tell one of your deer from one of ours just based on body and coloration over 80% of the time. That’s giving me free money.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Encinal View Post
            Bet you $1000 I could tell one of your deer from one of ours just based on body and coloration over 80% of the time. That’s giving me free money.
            On your ranch you probably could, but I bet you already know every deer on there.
            They probably all have names, Am I right??

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by bukkskin View Post
              On your ranch you probably could, but I bet you already know every deer on there.
              They probably all have names, Am I right??
              Im not talking about named deer. I’m talking about deer. General run of the mill deer. I could probably do it with does too, but I’m less confident since I look at bucks harder.

              I could do it with my neighbors deer vs yours.

              And I don't really name deer anything other than descriptors. "Mini" was the Mini Multipointed deer because we had a Multipointed deer.

              <---- deer is called Sawfish by some of the guides... I call him "the deer with the drops" or "the droptine buck at 8South".
              Last edited by Encinal; 05-08-2018, 02:53 PM.

              Comment


                #37
                I'll have to agree with Encinal even though I think he's a punk for having all those big deer . There is no doubt I can distinguish a native old Mexico or deep South Texas buck with any thing that is not native.... easily...

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Encinal View Post
                  Im not talking about named deer. I’m talking about deer. General run of the mill deer. I could probably do it with does too, but I’m less confident since I look at bucks harder.

                  I could do it with my neighbors deer vs yours.
                  South Texas deer have a different look than any other deer in the world. I've hunted S. Texas for 26 years and agree with you on telling the difference. It's easy when you have looked at that many pure native S. Texas deer for so long.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Big Mike M View Post
                    South Texas deer have a different look than any other deer in the world. I've hunted S. Texas for 26 years and agree with you on telling the difference. It's easy when you have looked at that many pure native S. Texas deer for so long.
                    It's not just that... if you add in antlers... and when ranches were big enough, you used to be able to tell what ranch big deer came from quite a bit of the time.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Jamesl View Post
                      We don't know about the doe we shoot. Not arguing that. I'm just saying that in our situation, we are above carrying capacity by choice. We provide all the supplemental feed the deer can consume. We have to remove deer from the herd. We take a very small percentage of trophies because we would rather let them live longer/breed, even though according to the biologists on here, there is absolutely no benefits to doing so. We try to determine the mature bucks that to us, are undesirable, and cull them out of the herd, which again has absolutely no benefit genetically speaking. To me, it's more about removing mature dominate bucks that we don't want bullying young bucks and eating supplemental feed. Whether it helps genetics, is a non issue.
                      I can tell you one thing, every one of those bucks pictured look like they are mature.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by WItoTX View Post
                        A doe contributes 50% of the genetics. No more, no less. To assert a fawn will receive more than 50% of its genetics from any one parent isn't true. However, mom will have a greater influence on the health of the fawn, as the fawn lives with her for the first year.

                        True culling is the removal of mouths to feed on the land so that way each animal gets adequate food, water, and shelter. With those three things, even small bucks will become big fast. How a person determines which deer are "culls" is up to the individual landowner though.
                        I hear ya, but some would argue that 50%. I will not. I have read, some believe the doe is responsible for up to 80% of the genetics....how they know this? I do not know

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Encinal View Post
                          Im not talking about named deer. I’m talking about deer. General run of the mill deer. I could probably do it with does too, but I’m less confident since I look at bucks harder.

                          I could do it with my neighbors deer vs yours.

                          And I don't really name deer anything other than descriptors. "Mini" was the Mini Multipointed deer because we had a Multipointed deer.

                          <---- deer is called Sawfish by some of the guides... I call him "the deer with the drops" or "the droptine buck at 8South".
                          Originally posted by Mexico View Post
                          I'll have to agree with Encinal even though I think he's a punk for having all those big deer . There is no doubt I can distinguish a native old Mexico or deep South Texas buck with any thing that is not native.... easily...
                          Originally posted by Big Mike M View Post
                          South Texas deer have a different look than any other deer in the world. I've hunted S. Texas for 26 years and agree with you on telling the difference. It's easy when you have looked at that many pure native S. Texas deer for so long.
                          Well, I need to send my Texas hunting buddies with ya'll for a deer identification seminar.
                          I have to put a BIG, BRIGHT tag on them or they would get shot, no doubt.
                          At 7/8ths or 15/16ths pure Texas it's a challenge for the average hunter.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Jamesl View Post
                            Would you leave any of these deer pictured below running around on your property? I am thinking you would say no, that you would kill (cull) them from the herd. And there would be several reasons for this. Taking a mouth out of the equation, mature bucks dispersing younger bucks to new areas and undesirable genetics. If a buck is dead prior to the rut, then he will not breed that year and the years after. Yes he has bred since he was 1.5 yrs old and has made a few bucks and does with his genetic characteristics. But you can't say that by killing true inferior bucks, you don't help the herd a little bit.
                            If all those deer were 4 1/2 or older I would absolutely take them out of the herd. For the reasons you listed and also to keep them from possibly injuring a deer with real potential.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by bukkskin View Post
                              Well, I need to send my Texas hunting buddies with ya'll for a deer identification seminar.
                              I have to put a BIG, BRIGHT tag on them or they would get shot, no doubt.
                              At 7/8ths or 15/16ths pure Texas it's a challenge for the average hunter.
                              It’s a challenge for the average hunter to tell a 120 from a 150.

                              If you know what you are looking for, it’s plain as day.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                I really envy you guys that have the ability to full deer. The state of Texas tells me what bucks I can and can’t cull based solely on width.

                                Comment

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