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Old 01-22-2018, 01:27 PM   #1
Outdoor Legacy
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Default SHOT SHow 2018 Night Vison & Thermal Updates

Hey guys, I figured I'd start another thread this year because last year's was pretty popular. I've made my annual pilgrimage back out to Las Vegas for the SHOT (Shooting Hunting and Outdoor Trade) Show. FYI: Anyone needing me this week can call me (877)350-1818 or send me a PM and I might a little harder to catch than normal but I'll call back or reply asap.

For those that don't know, SHOT is THE show for the hunting industry. It's an industry insider show, meaning only manufacturers, dealers and distributors can attend. This is where anything and everything new for the year will be announced for the hunting world.

I don't expect any really giant news in the NV world but the thing about SHOT is, you just never know. What we do know for sure is, FLIR will be announcing 2 more models in their new ThermoSight Pro series. They will have the new 12 micron Boson core and also have internal video recording. They will also be releasing the Breach thermal monocular which was at the show last year as a prototype but never made it into production. It's be redesigned and from what has been hinted at, it's going to be very nice.

Pulsar is adding laser range finders (LRF) to their thermal Trail series scopes and they are also coming out with 2 high end thermal binoculars. Yes, binoculars, not monoculars. I'll have more info tomorrow but they are going to be pricey I'm sure.

I'm not a huge ATN fan and many of you know ATN's popularity has waned over the years due to some customer service issues and concerns with product quality. They have some new digital X-Sights coming out and a couple new digital daytime rifle scopes from what I've seen. It sounds strange but I'm going to go check it out. I've heard rumors of some other new stuff they might have but it's speculation, so we will have to wait and see.

I was told Trijicon (formerly IR Defense) won't be doing much new but I'll check them out to see.

There may be more news but that is what the manufacturers have told us so far. I have meetings scheduled with both Pulsar at FLIR tomorrow, so I'll have a lot more info by tomorrow night. Thanks guys!

- Jason
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:54 PM   #2
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In!!!! Can't wait for the updates.
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Old 01-22-2018, 03:30 PM   #3
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Watching this closely for the updates as well.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:08 AM   #4
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Leaning towards a thermal at this point. Interested to see what’s new.


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Old 01-23-2018, 11:01 AM   #5
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Interested in the binoculars......... even if I can't afford them lol.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:29 PM   #6
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Bumping so everyone sees this thread, the 2017 thread got bumped and I want to make sure the comments all stay in the new thread.

I'll be heading over to the show in about an hour. I'm ready!
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:30 PM   #7
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Pics of Eva, please. With specs.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:34 PM   #8
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Thanks, looking forward to the updates and second the Eva comment above.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:02 PM   #9
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Pics of Eva, please. With specs.
x3
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:01 PM   #10
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Looking forward to the updates!!


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Old 01-23-2018, 02:33 PM   #11
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x3
Uh, yep.

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Old 01-23-2018, 05:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Outdoor Legacy View Post
Bumping so everyone sees this thread, the 2017 thread got bumped and I want to make sure the comments all stay in the new thread.

I'll be heading over to the show in about an hour. I'm ready!
Interested in what the Photon is upgrading to.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:17 PM   #13
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Also watching and waiting
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:03 PM   #14
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Thanks guys. It was a crazy busy day. First I met with Pulsar/Sightmark (sister companies) and that was a really good meeting. I ran out of time and didn't get any hands on time with the new products because I had a scheduled meeting with FLIR. I'm going back to Pulsar tomorrow and I'll get some pics and maybe even a little video of the new stuff. I'll have more details, specs and pricing then.

From my meeting today, my initial take away is this.... We are looking at the first VERY small shipment of new Sightmark Photon RT's coming in around the first half of February. I expect it will be March/April before the bigger shipments are rolling in. I've already got a pre-order list for all the models and if you are interested, I'd definitely let me know soon to get spot in line.

The Photon RT's probably need their own thread but I'll go ahead and post some info on them here. They now include built in video recording, live streaming to your phone or tablet via a free app and they have a 2x digital zoom. There are 4 models:

Sightmark Photon RT 4.5x42S $549.97

Sightmark Photon RT 4.5x42 $599.97

Sightmark Photon RT 6.5x50S $649.97

Sightmark Photon RT 6.5x50 $699.97

There is a lot of confusion about the different models and I'm going to briefly try and explain it here. The S models have an 850nm wavelength IR illuminator. This is the industry standard illuminator IR wavelength, it's the same range as what all the previous Photons have had, what the Pulsar DigiSights have, same with the ATN X-Sights and most external IR illuminators like the UNV 20IR. The reason for this is that the 800nm wavelength range is the most usable IR "light" for these digital scopes. When you turn on the illuminator and you look directly into it, you can see a very soft red glow of the LED array. No visible glow or light is emitted or cast out from the illuminator but this glow is (barely) visible as close distances. In my opinion, in most all cases, this is a non-issue. The tens of thousands of guys killing hogs and coyotes with these digital scopes is proof of this.

The other two models (without the S) have a 940nm IR illuminator. The 940nm does not produce this soft red glow at the head of the light. It is truly "invisible" even when you look right in the head of it. The trade off is that the 940nm wavelength range is not suited nearly as well for the image sensors in these digital scopes. What that means practically speaking is, you can't see as far because you have less infrared illumination. This can be a very big trade off that isn't worth it for most guys. However, if you have highly educated coyotes or hogs, this is a good choice. But again....in my experience in real world use and in talking to hundreds and hundreds of customers over the years, I just don't see this being a problem for many people.

So with all that said, my advice is to buy the S models. Save the $50, get better range. If I see something different when I'm able to finally get my hands on one of the 940nm RT's, I'll be glad to admit I'm wrong but even Sightmark's specs show the range is greatly diminished on the 940's.

Stay tuned for Part 2

- Jason
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:11 PM   #15
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A lot of Pulsar Trail owners have been asking about the battery pack adapters that take AA's that Pulsar announced when they released the Trails. They have finally arrived. I'll confirm pricing but I believe it will be around $60-$70 or less. A lot of people won't need this but I have a lot of customers who hunt in remote places without good access to chargers and they want to option of using the AA batteries in a bind.

I will try get more pics of Pulsar and Sightmark products tomorrow.

Part 3 - FLIR coming up
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:27 PM   #16
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Thanks for keeping us posted! I know you are not an ATN fan. (I am a bit of a FAN boy) Own X-Sight 1 and 2 as well as a Thor HD 384 and their Range Finder. Let us know what you think of the X-Sight 4k Pro and the Thor 4. When do you think you might get them?
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:29 PM   #17
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Same thing with FLIR, I'll hopefully get more pics/vids tomorrow.

So here is what's new that I think is exciting. As expected FLIR is releasing the next two models in the new ThermoSight Pro series. These all include internal video recording. The PTS233 has been very slowly shipping over the last couple months and it's been a hit. So the models will be:

ThermoSight PRO PTS233 1.5-6x19, FLIR Boson – 320x256 (12μm) 60Hz Core,
19mm Lens - $2,299

ThermoSight PRO PTS536 4-16x50, FLIR Boson – 320x256 (12μm) 60Hz Core,
50mm Lens - $3,795

ThermoSight PRO PTS736 6-24x75, FLIR Boson – 320x256 (12μm) 60Hz Core,
75mm Lens - $4,795

As you can see, what you are getting here is some really high magnification and some big objective lenses. I can tell you the PTS536 is going to be VERY popular at that price point with a 4x optical magnification. I've already got in a big order for them.

The next really cool thing is the new Breach PTQ136 dual purpose thermal unit. It will function as a handheld monocular and it's helmet mountable. It will be $2,495 and it has a FLIR Boson core, 320x256 (12μm) and 60Hz. It was announced last year under a different name and slightly different specs/features. This unit is weighs 7.4oz, 1x optical, 4x digital zoom and has internal video recording. It is a NICE little unit that fits right in the palm of your hand. I was very impressed.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHunter View Post
Pics of Eva, please. With specs.
Gosh this seems to be a popular request. I'll be pretty busy tomorrow but I'll tell me wife we have to make time for this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by texashunter74 View Post
Thanks for keeping us posted! I know you are not an ATN fan. (I am a bit of a FAN boy) Own X-Sight 1 and 2 as well as a Thor HD 384 and their Range Finder. Let us know what you think of the X-Sight 4k Pro and the Thor 4. When do you think you might get them?
Will do! I'm not sure on an ETA, I haven't been by their booth yet but I will tomorrow. I'll report back.


One more thing guys, my updates might actually be pretty short until next week. I can get into details more later. It's really hard to get all this done in the evenings after I get back from the show. We've got dinner meetings every night and it's hard to get all this posted before we have to go back out. I'll do my best but when I get back to Texas, I'll have a lot more time.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:26 PM   #19
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I’m really wanting to get some thermal this year
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:53 PM   #20
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[QUOTE=Outdoor Legacy;13126812]Gosh this seems to be a popular request. I'll be pretty busy tomorrow but I'll tell me wife we have to make time for this.

My hero lol
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:46 AM   #21
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In
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:52 AM   #22
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Following for sure! Look forward to some updates and to see the coolest stuff!
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:09 AM   #23
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*
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:29 AM   #24
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Thanks for the updates. They're much appreciated.
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:11 PM   #25
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Hey guys, thanks for checking back in. Day 2 of SHOT is in the books and I'm hoping I got pretty much everything done today. I might have to back for a little bit tomorrow and finalize some orders but I think I'm mostly good.

I really didn't see a whole lot of new super exciting things today because I was mostly back at the Pulsar and FLIR booths again finalizing some stuff but I didn't venture out to the ATN booth, Trijicon and a few other non-NV related companies that I needed to check out.

To answer Texashunter's questions, yes sir I did see the new X-Sight 4K's and the Thors. My gut reaction is, I don't like the looks of them. I forgot to take pics, but I'll go find one..... I'm also going to post all the pictures in another post because they are on my phone and it's easier that way.lol The Thors and the new X-Sight 4K's have an identical housing. You can't tell them apart by first glace. They said this will help them with production for obvious reasons. They have a built in non-removable battery and they say the X-Sight 4K's will run 18 hours on it and the rep said the thermals will run 16 hours. The Thors image quality looks good and if you are an ATN fan you will love them. The full color daylight quality of the X-Sight 4K models was honestly pretty amazing. They also released a daytime only video scope, called the X-Sight 4K Buck Hunter, which as far as I can tell is just an X-Sight without the NV option? I didn't get a demo of it, but that's what it appears from seeing it and reading the specs. Since I don't deal in daytime optics it wasn't something I wanted to spend my time on.

There is also an auxiliary add-on ballistic laser range finder that can be purchased and added to any of the new X-Sights or Thors. I didn't get a demo of it but it seems cool. I just hope it's simple to use and not overly complicated with menu options etc. We shall see. They are keeping the current crop of X-Sight's for now, as well as the current Thors. I'm honestly not sure why but there has to be some motivation. The did say the price will be dropping on most of the older models, as you'd expect. At the end of the day, I think there could be a few cool things here but we will just have to wait and see how it goes. They are saying March/April delivery. If anyone is interested in any of these particular units, just let me know. I'm going to put in a small pre-order for testing and evaluation.

- Jason
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:24 PM   #26
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The new Pulsar Accolade thermal binos. These are the XQ38 model.



FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS536 4x optical 50mm lens $3,795


FLIR ThermoSight Pro PTS736 6x optical 75mm lens $4,795


Here is a stock image of the new X-Sight 4K and the Thor.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:01 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outdoor Legacy View Post
Same thing with FLIR, I'll hopefully get more pics/vids tomorrow.

So here is what's new that I think is exciting. As expected FLIR is releasing the next two models in the new ThermoSight Pro series. These all include internal video recording. The PTS233 has been very slowly shipping over the last couple months and it's been a hit. So the models will be:

ThermoSight PRO PTS233 1.5-6x19, FLIR Boson – 320x256 (12μm) 60Hz Core,
19mm Lens - $2,299 ...
Is the 60Hz an upgrade from the PTS233's original specs? I see 30Hz on your website and a few other places but 60Hz here and on Flir's website.
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Old 01-25-2018, 08:41 AM   #28
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Thanks for the great posts
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Old 01-25-2018, 11:37 AM   #29
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Are the Accolades eye pieces adjustable for the interpupillary distance?
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:32 PM   #30
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Is the 60Hz an upgrade from the PTS233's original specs? I see 30Hz on your website and a few other places but 60Hz here and on Flir's website.
I'm glad you mentioned that, I just fixed that because I'd forgotten to. That was an error on FLIR's part. They announced them as 30Hz but after they had begun shipping they sent out some updated info and said it is actually a 60Hz scope but it records video at 30Hz.

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Are the Accolades eye pieces adjustable for the interpupillary distance?
No they aren't and that was the very first question I asked as soon as I picked it up. I was very concerned about that because I usually have to make that adjust on binos but these actually seemed just fine. I'm sure it will be a small annoyance to some people though. I'll know more after I get my first unit in and do some testing.

The image quality was amazing, even on the XQ model. There is something about using both eyes that makes the experience totally different for the user. I suspect these will be popular with outfitters and guys who really spend a lot of time in the field. Obviously the price is going to be high and it's going to limit their sales but it will popular with the hunters it was designed for.
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:32 PM   #31
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Dunno how I missed this thread. Thanks for the updates!
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Old 01-25-2018, 04:43 PM   #32
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No they aren't and that was the very first question I asked as soon as I picked it up. I was very concerned about that because I usually have to make that adjust on binos but these actually seemed just fine. I'm sure it will be a small annoyance to some people though. I'll know more after I get my first unit in and do some testing.

The image quality was amazing, even on the XQ model. There is something about using both eyes that makes the experience totally different for the user. I suspect these will be popular with outfitters and guys who really spend a lot of time in the field. Obviously the price is going to be high and it's going to limit their sales but it will popular with the hunters it was designed for.
Yeah might be an issue for me. I have very narrow eyes and finding a set of binos that fit me comfortably is sometimes difficult. Mainly because I like a large objective lens.
That would be nice for outfitters..
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Old 01-26-2018, 07:52 PM   #33
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What are your thoughts on the Pulsar F135/155 forward mounted digital NV units Jason? I see that they can record video ( only at 1x and no crosshairs visible)... But they would be a good option for those that don’t want to dismount their regular ‘daytime scope’ for not too big of a price jump from the Photon.
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Old 01-29-2018, 12:59 AM   #34
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What are your thoughts on the Pulsar F135/155 forward mounted digital NV units Jason? I see that they can record video ( only at 1x and no crosshairs visible)... But they would be a good option for those that don’t want to dismount their regular ‘daytime scope’ for not too big of a price jump from the Photon.

Jon, I haven't gotten to use one yet but I'll just be honest.....it's been hard for me to jump on the clip-on bandwagon. To be honest, I don't even think there is a bandwagon.lol The popularity just isn't there and for a lot of good reasons. I think the new Pulsar are nice and for the price I think they are good option for what you described but clip-on has always just made a rifle feel to big, clucky and out of balance. Again, there is a place for it but you need to have a rifle/scope combo that you really like and can't hunt without. For the same money you could buy a new Photon RT and another cheap AR or bolt gun.

So again, I'm not against them, although it sounds like it. I just need a customer to convince me he HAS to use his rifle/scope combo at night before I can tell him it's a good purchase. You just get a lot more bang for your buck buying a dedicated scope vs clip-on NV.

Just my 2 cents!

- Jason
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Old 01-29-2018, 06:13 AM   #35
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Jon, I haven't gotten to use one yet but I'll just be honest.....it's been hard for me to jump on the clip-on bandwagon. To be honest, I don't even think there is a bandwagon.lol The popularity just isn't there and for a lot of good reasons. I think the new Pulsar are nice and for the price I think they are good option for what you described but clip-on has always just made a rifle feel to big, clucky and out of balance. Again, there is a place for it but you need to have a rifle/scope combo that you really like and can't hunt without. For the same money you could buy a new Photon RT and another cheap AR or bolt gun.

So again, I'm not against them, although it sounds like it. I just need a customer to convince me he HAS to use his rifle/scope combo at night before I can tell him it's a good purchase. You just get a lot more bang for your buck buying a dedicated scope vs clip-on NV.

Just my 2 cents!

- Jason
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it!
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Old 01-29-2018, 11:56 AM   #36
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Any update on audio recording with the Pulsar thermals?
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Old 01-29-2018, 12:54 PM   #37
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Any update on audio recording with the Pulsar thermals?
It was added as a firmware update about 3 weeks ago. Update through Stream Vision and you'll have audio.
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Old 01-29-2018, 04:51 PM   #38
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PM sent, l need to get on your waiting list.
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Old 01-29-2018, 10:12 PM   #39
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Any update on audio recording with the Pulsar thermals?
Yep it was released a little over a week ago on 1/19 as a firmware update. You just have to go to the StreamVision app and update your device. It seems to be working like a champ though.
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:55 AM   #40
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...No they aren't and that was the very first question I asked as soon as I picked it up. I was very concerned about that because I usually have to make that adjust on binos but these actually seemed just fine. I'm sure it will be a small annoyance to some people though. I'll know more after I get my first unit in and do some testing.
They ARE adjustable just as you would adjust a PVS7. I actually work for Pulsar and handle media relations for the brand here in the Americas. I hope you also got to look through the Accolade XP50 Thermal Binoculars with the 640 sensor.

I'm stoked that you loved the image clarity on our Accolade! Their range of adult-size heat signature detection is 2,000 yards. They also have built-in video, Wi-Fi, 8-color palette, stadiametric rangefinder, picture-in-picture, etc.

Wish we could have shook hands in the booth. Do you remember who you spoke with?

We also expect, later in the year, to add an Accolade LRF to the mix.

Not sure on all pricing since the Accolade is new and inventory isn't expected until mid- to late-spring but I think MSRPs on the Accolade XQ38 and XP50 will be about $4399 and $6599 respectively. I suspect people really shopping will be able to find the devices closer to $4k and $6k respectively when they are available (guessing here). LRF models, I'm sure will be a bit more. Hope that helps. I haven't been on here in a while but am an avid bowhunter. I also use thermal for walking in and out of my hunting spots, for blood tracking and game recovery. The last hog I arrowed, I found in about 15 seconds. ;-)

Hope the info helps!

Cheers!

-Kev
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:57 AM   #41
Great White Hunter
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Yep it was released a little over a week ago on 1/19 as a firmware update. You just have to go to the StreamVision app and update your device. It seems to be working like a champ though.
Yes, audio is working. We've had a couple of folks mention volume is a tad lower but they have to remember that these are waterproof devices. The mic is not going to be direct-to-air but is as close as possible. Also, these are not professional grade mics -- should go without saying but... ;-)
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Old 01-30-2018, 12:00 PM   #42
Outdoor Legacy
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Originally Posted by Great White Hunter View Post
They ARE adjustable just as you would adjust a PVS7. I actually work for Pulsar and handle media relations for the brand here in the Americas. I hope you also got to look through the Accolade XP50 Thermal Binoculars with the 640 sensor.

I'm stoked that you loved the image clarity on our Accolade! Their range of adult-size heat signature detection is 2,000 yards. They also have built-in video, Wi-Fi, 8-color palette, stadiametric rangefinder, picture-in-picture, etc.

Wish we could have shook hands in the booth. Do you remember who you spoke with?

We also expect, later in the year, to add an Accolade LRF to the mix.

Not sure on all pricing since the Accolade is new and inventory isn't expected until mid- to late-spring but I think MSRPs on the Accolade XQ38 and XP50 will be about $4399 and $6599 respectively. I suspect people really shopping will be able to find the devices closer to $4k and $6k respectively when they are available (guessing here). LRF models, I'm sure will be a bit more. Hope that helps. I haven't been on here in a while but am an avid bowhunter. I also use thermal for walking in and out of my hunting spots, for blood tracking and game recovery. The last hog I arrowed, I found in about 15 seconds. ;-)

Hope the info helps!

Cheers!

-Kev
Hey Kev, thanks for the info and for chiming in!

I was told by 2 reps (who will remain nameless) in the booth that the Accolades were not adjustable and before I asked I tried to adjust them and nothing moved. How do they adjust? Do you literally just move the eye pieces towards or away from each other?

Thanks for the info and the correction, that's great news.

- Jason
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Old 01-30-2018, 12:00 PM   #43
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You didn't get a chance to check out our Trail LRF Thermal Riflescope devices? Any questions about these new products, don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks for the coverage, Outdoor Legacy! Great to see you last week! Piano Bar was a treat, huh? Let me know about the Photon RT. ;-)
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Old 01-30-2018, 12:12 PM   #44
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Pics of Eva, please. With specs.
Still waiting! Lol

Seriously, these NV/Thermal updates are AWESOME! THANKS JASON!

Now about Eva.............
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Old 01-30-2018, 01:03 PM   #45
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Jason,

Did Pulsar release a QD Mount for the Core yet?
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Old 01-30-2018, 03:43 PM   #46
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pull the eye pieces away from or towards each other. Not sure if this video link will work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k0nkqf48fd...52115.mp4?dl=0
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Old 01-30-2018, 05:39 PM   #47
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You didn't get a chance to check out our Trail LRF Thermal Riflescope devices? Any questions about these new products, don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks for the coverage, Outdoor Legacy! Great to see you last week! Piano Bar was a treat, huh? Let me know about the Photon RT. ;-)
Not sure if the first part was directed at me but yes sir I checked out the LRF's and put some on order!

Ha! Yes sir the Piano Bar was my treat, well worth it! Wish we could have stayed longer but we had to get up a 4am for a 7:30am flight out of Vegas.

The Photon RT is amazing! I've got it zero'd and I'm waiting for some hogs to make a mistake and slip out in my pasture. I'll keep you updated but I'm super impressed. I just got in my first shipment last week of all the models and I'll be testing them side by side as well.
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Old 01-30-2018, 06:25 PM   #48
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Jason,

Did Pulsar release a QD Mount for the Core yet?
Yes sir, the QD mount was released for all Pulsar thermals in November. Pulsar got in one shipment of them and they were all sold out super fast. We have a bunch on order and will hopefully have them soon. They are $99 and if you want one, shoot me a PM and I'll get you on the list.

https://outdoorlegacygear.com/products/pulsar-qd-mount
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Old 01-30-2018, 10:57 PM   #49
35remington
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Originally Posted by Great White Hunter View Post
pull the eye pieces away from or towards each other. Not sure if this video link will work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k0nkqf48fd...52115.mp4?dl=0
That’s awesome.
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:57 PM   #50
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That’s awesome.
I agree! I just got some bad info and I didn't pull hard enough.lol And I'll gladly cut the 2 guys a break who didn't know. I know this stuff is brand new and everyone is learning it all at once.

By the way.....I just smoked a nice hog with the new Photon RT 4.5x42S. This thing is legit. I'll start a separate thread for it soon. I just need this darn super moon to go away so I can do some real testing in the pitch black. You can read a newspaper out there tonight.
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