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Old 02-07-2018, 04:18 PM   #1
RickBarbee
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Default Penetration test on a 30 gallon plastic drum

Try this. I'm begging you to.

You can get the drums for free at most farm coop supply stores.

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Old 02-07-2018, 04:26 PM   #2
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You can get the drums for free from most farm coop supply stores.
Do it !!!
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Old 02-07-2018, 05:46 PM   #3
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OK, I just repeated the test exactly as the first time, but with a 1415 grain arrow with 30% foc. What do you think the results were?

Rick
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Old 02-07-2018, 05:51 PM   #4
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Complete pass through?
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Old 02-07-2018, 06:43 PM   #5
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Here are the results for the heavy & high foc arrow.

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Old 02-07-2018, 06:56 PM   #6
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By the way, the broadhead in the second test weighs 630 grain all by itself, but it's the same width as the first at 1.125"

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Old 02-07-2018, 07:11 PM   #7
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Hmm. I guess the slowing down of that arrow from the extra weight?

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Old 02-07-2018, 07:15 PM   #8
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Another note:

The bow is actually 69.5# at my draw, making the second/heavy arrow come in at just a tad over 20.3 gpp.

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Old 02-07-2018, 07:26 PM   #9
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Very neat videos, Rick!

That first 640-grain arrow was not exactly lightweight. Shows nice balance of mass and speed. I'm reminded of your arrow ballistic chart and the sweet spot of around -- what? -- 9- or 10-grains per pound for optimum speed and momentum.

But that 1415-grain beast was kind of ridiculous. Thinking your 98-lb bow would do a lot better with it. Seems that a certain amount of speed is still required to propel a certain mass and carry the momentum needed for good penetration.

I believe this was the neighborhood of arrow weight Howard Hill used on elephants, but he was using a 115-lb bow. Also, I think Shiloh said he was looking to get 950- to 1000-grain arrows tuned for his 76-lb bow to go after Cape Buffalo. Just recollecting this off the top of my head, so feel free to correct if I'm misremembering.

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Old 02-07-2018, 07:28 PM   #10
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So i assume that 15 to 20% foc is about max of what you want?

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Old 02-07-2018, 07:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
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So i assume that 15 to 20% foc is about max of what you want?

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21% is the max of what I will settle for, but I always try to get between 12 & 15 somewhere, and between 9 & 10 gpp on the weight.

After that, if I want more horsepower, I go up in both draw eight & arrow weight, but still try to keep that 12 to 15 percent foc.

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Old 02-07-2018, 07:34 PM   #12
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I really REALLY want to see what some of you guys get in results with your hunting rigs on this test, and would absolute LOVE to see some of you guys with the dangerous game setups to do it.

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Old 02-07-2018, 07:39 PM   #13
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In my opinion, the only way I would get better penetration than with the 640gr arrow would be to go up in both draw weight & arrow weight while maintaining the between 9 & 10 gpp the 640gr gives me.

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Old 02-07-2018, 07:46 PM   #14
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Next time I book a plastic drum hunt, Iíll be sure to try this one!

Bisch


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Old 02-07-2018, 07:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Next time I book a plastic drum hunt, Iíll be sure to try this one!

Bisch


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I have it booked for you already. All you have to do is go to the coop in Sonora, and get the drum.

Do it.

Rick
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Old 02-07-2018, 08:31 PM   #16
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Thanx. I will get her a lock box with her own code.

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Old 02-07-2018, 08:32 PM   #17
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.

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Old 02-07-2018, 08:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Thanx. I will get her a lock box with her own code.

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LOL/HUH ?

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Old 02-07-2018, 09:05 PM   #19
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Wrong thread! But I just ordered arrows and with 100 grain heads they will be just over 12% foc. Hope that works.

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Old 02-07-2018, 09:21 PM   #20
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Hmm. I actually thought that heavier arrow would have blown through the barrel.

Richard.
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Old 02-07-2018, 09:30 PM   #21
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Hmm. I actually thought that heavier arrow would have blown through the barrel.

Richard.
I didn't expect that, but I expected it to do better than it did.
I actually shot it twice, with the same results both times.

Rick
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Old 02-07-2018, 10:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
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I didn't expect that, but I expected it to do better than it did.
I actually shot it twice, with the same results both times.

Rick
Hmmm.. Yeah I'm surprised. Most of the stuff I read says that heavy, high FOC, arrows penetrate deeper than lighter/lower. Mine are 9GPI and 17%FOC and I like them. If I can find a blue barrel I'll try your challenge.


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Old 02-08-2018, 12:07 AM   #23
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Default Penetration test on a 30 gallon plastic drum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkers88 View Post
Hmmm.. Yeah I'm surprised. Most of the stuff I read says that heavy, high FOC, arrows penetrate deeper than lighter/lower.

Generally, that is true, but there is always a point of diminishing returns, and I think 20.3gpp is way beyond that point!!!!!

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Old 02-08-2018, 12:25 AM   #24
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Chronograph the arrows and let's see what the speed of each is as shot from your bow.
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Old 02-08-2018, 02:12 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Chronograph the arrows and let's see what the speed of each is as shot from your bow.
The 640gr averages 208.
No idea what the heavy is doing. It's slow for sure, but I don't have a working chronograph, or access to one right now to see just how slow.

I actually never planned on doing the super heavy arrow shot, but was asked to by someone on another forum, so I did. Pretty much knew what the result would be, but expected it to be a little better than it was.

I'm not trying to prove anything by doing this. I just thought of it, thought it would be interesting to see what would happen, and even more interesting to see other do the same thing with their setups.

I plan to sometime soon do it with the same 640gr arrow with a few different design 175gr broadheads just to see what penetration differences (if any) there will be between them.

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Old 02-08-2018, 11:13 AM   #26
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Almost forgot about my old blue barrel dog house. Here's what a 700-grain 31" carbon arrow, with 300 grains of Tuffhead 2-blade broadhead will do from 20 yards when shot out of a 70-lb recurve (67 or so at my 27" drawlength). I'm pleased and ready to book a hunt for the elusive Blue Wildebarrel.




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Old 02-08-2018, 12:03 PM   #27
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Come on hunting season. These ole boys will shoot anything. Ain't nothing safe.

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Old 02-08-2018, 12:29 PM   #28
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That is AWESOME Ellis !!!!!!

Rick
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Old 02-08-2018, 12:32 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBarbee View Post
That is AWESOME Ellis !!!!!!

Rick
Thanks. Feel really good about that set up.

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Old 02-08-2018, 12:42 PM   #30
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If that is the JW bow, then it is 69# at 27".

I know because my son used to shoot it, and his draw is exactly 27"

Here's what I figure your specs are:

I'm guessing you have a 100gr brass insert to hit that weight.

Draw weight 69# @ 27"

Total arrow weight - 678gr

FOC is high at - 27.9%

AWESOME !!!

Rick
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Old 02-08-2018, 12:53 PM   #31
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Forgot to mention that arrow actually has 400 grains up front, with the 100-grain brass insert that the 225-grain broadhead with 75-grain screw-in adapter are screwed into. FOC % is around 26%, as I recall -- not quite Ultra High FOC, but is Extreme FOC.

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Old 02-08-2018, 12:59 PM   #32
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Yep, I had it figured right.

Rick

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Old 02-08-2018, 12:59 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBarbee View Post
If that is the JW bow, then it is 69# at 27".

I know because my son used to shoot it, and his draw is exactly 27"

Here's what I figure your specs are:

I'm guessing you have a 100gr brass insert to hit that weight.

Draw weight 69# @ 27"

Total arrow weight - 678gr

FOC is high at - 27.9%

AWESOME !!!

Rick
Thanks for the correct details, Rick. And yes it is the Weathers bow. I'm on the road to Arkansas to watch my son's college baseball team Univ. of Neb. - Kearney (he's a pitcher). So, kinda hard to communicate. Stopped for gas now, btw.

Great idea you had about this test!

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Old 02-08-2018, 01:06 PM   #34
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Thanks for doing it BroEllis.
Just that much more comparisons to discuss.

Rick
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Old 02-08-2018, 01:29 PM   #35
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I was going to try this until I saw how much weight you guys are pulling - I'm afraid with my 50# "girly bow" the arrow might just bounce off! - that would be a confidence killer for sure
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Old 02-08-2018, 01:31 PM   #36
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I was going to try this until I saw how much weight you guys are pulling - I'm afraid with my 50# "girly bow" the arrow might just bounce off! - that would be a confidence killer for sure
I've stabbed wounded deer and pigs with arrows. That skin aren't quite that tough.

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Old 02-08-2018, 01:45 PM   #37
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Quote:
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I've stabbed wounded deer and pigs with arrows. That skin aren't quite that tough.

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Fortunately, I know my rig will penetrate deer and hogs but I'm not at all confident I could kill that barrel stone dead.
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Old 02-08-2018, 01:52 PM   #38
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Quote:
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I was going to try this until I saw how much weight you guys are pulling - I'm afraid with my 50# "girly bow" the arrow might just bounce off! - that would be a confidence killer for sure
There's a guy on another forum who did it.
He got penetration. You probably will to.

Do It !!!!!!

Rick
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Old 02-08-2018, 03:09 PM   #39
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Default Penetration test on a 30 gallon plastic drum

Blue Wildebarrell!!!!!!

That was absolutely awesome Ellis!!!!

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Old 02-08-2018, 04:57 PM   #40
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I saw this on the Leatherwall. Interesting stuff. I need some things yet to be ready to start shooting or I would try to track down a barrel and see if my 45# would even punch a broadhead through one side lol.
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Old 02-08-2018, 05:33 PM   #41
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Just finished uploading videos for two more test shots.

One shot with a 175gr Grizzly Right Single Bevel, and one with a 175gr VPA 3 Blade.

I used the same 640gr arrow that I used for the 175gr Bishop Archery Right Single Bevel.

Everything about this arrow is the same, except for the changing of the broadheads.

What does this all prove? Probably nothing to a lot of folks.

What did I learn from it? I learned I can have full confidence in my hunting rig for most animals, and I learned, that the only real significant difference the broadheads make are the shape of the holes they cut.

Here's the Grizzly video:

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Here's the VPA video:

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Enjoy !

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Old 02-08-2018, 06:55 PM   #42
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Speaking of the differences in the holes the different broadheads made:

While reviewing the pictures, I saw something very interesting.
Can you see what I see?
Lets compare our impression of the differences.

Rick
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:04 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Blue Wildebarrell!!!!!!

That was absolutely awesome Ellis!!!!

Bisch


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Thanks, Jerry. This stuff is supposed to be fun, right?

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Old 02-08-2018, 11:56 PM   #44
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Got in from game a bit ago and looked at the new videos. Cool stuff.

Looking at the entry/exit views shows that the single bevels are slicing AND twisting and cracking the plastic beyond the actual blade path as they penetrate, where the three blade mainly cuts its way through. It's my understanding that the twisting action is a major design element to break bone by splintering it if encountered.

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Old 02-09-2018, 09:57 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tradtiger View Post
Got in from game a bit ago and looked at the new videos. Cool stuff.

Looking at the entry/exit views shows that the single bevels are slicing AND twisting and cracking the plastic beyond the actual blade path as they penetrate, where the three blade mainly cuts its way through. It's my understanding that the twisting action is a major design element to break bone by splintering it if encountered.

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The 3 blade spun too.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:15 AM   #46
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There are no cracks in the broadhead holes. Only nice clean cuts.

What you may be seeing as cracks are scratches, that were in the barrel prior to the shots.

Rick
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:12 AM   #47
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I agree, Stickbow, that the 3-blade also spun between entry and exit.

Rick: maybe it's my phone pic, but there seems to be a mark or distortion of the plastic immediately below the center of the broadheads on the entry views for both the Bishop and Grizzly heads -- shaped like a tornado vortex.

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Old 02-09-2018, 11:46 AM   #48
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Quote:
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Rick: maybe it's my phone pic, but there seems to be a mark or distortion of the plastic immediately below the center of the broadheads on the entry views for both the Bishop and Grizzly heads -- shaped like a tornado vortex.

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That is real thin plastic trailers, that folded out when I pulled the arrows.
Probably caused by the plastic melting some from the friction of the penetrations.

Rick
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:52 AM   #49
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That is real thin plastic trailers, that folded out when I pulled the arrows.
Probably caused by the plastic melting some from the friction of the penetrations.

Rick
Fair enough. So are you seeing more than spinning? Maybe that 3-blade hole size is a little bigger?

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Old 02-09-2018, 12:47 PM   #50
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Fair enough. So are you seeing more than spinning? Maybe that 3-blade hole size is a little bigger?

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All three of the broadheads had some decent rotation.
Even the 3 blade, which surprised me.

What I was seeing, that really caught my eye was the size of the holes.

The Bishop head made the biggest hole, which also surprised me.

I thought the VPA 3 blade would make the biggest hole, but it was a distant second to the Bishop.

The Grizzly came in dead last for hole size, with a hole that almost closed completely up.

Rick
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