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Old 02-06-2018, 01:23 AM   #1
Briar Friar
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Default Tuning guidance please

Im bareshaft tuning on my Sarrels 60" dual shelved Lynx recurve, 53#@28. My actual draw is 31.5"-32" but only pull about 28.5"-29". Split finger. 8" brace height. Between two nock points is 1/4"(top of bottom nock) to 7/16" (bottom of top nock).

I built and am tuning small game and large game arrows. All my arrows are factory full length...I believe. I have been working on my form for the past two years and have never cut a shaft. I have a saw and am afraid to use it.

The small game are Beman Centershot 600 7gpi, 30 7/8" long shafts, 75gr insert, 100 gr point, total weight 417gr and FOC is 18.4%.

The large game are Easton Aftermaths 340 9.6gpi,31 7/8" long shafts, 75 gr insert, 175 gr point, total weight 575 gr and FOC is 20.6%.

Bareshaft and fletched shots are from 10yds.

What do yall suggest adjusting first?

First pic is large game shot left handed.
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Old 02-06-2018, 01:30 AM   #2
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Small game shot left handed

Pic rotated ccw.
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Old 02-06-2018, 01:33 AM   #3
Briar Friar
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Small game shot right handed.
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:29 AM   #4
caughtandhobble
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Looks like you shoot better lefthand... It also looks like you have a lot longer draw length righthand.

In my opinion shooting different arrows is like shooting a different bow. I realize you're still relatively new to trad archery but the sooner you normalize everything the easier things get for you. In the beginning stay with one setup, personally I'd don't change things up much. That's not to say I've always stuck to one bow/ arrow combination but I shoot better now that I use the same or very similar setup.

Two different sets of arrows, righthand, lefthand is fun but I don't think it is productive. Personally, I'd go with my dominant eye and let that determine which hand I shot. You know what they say about hind-sight, I did not always practice what I'm preaching here. There's likely somebody that will read my comments and laugh looking back at all of the bows that I have been through.
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:24 AM   #5
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I'm not an avid Trad shooter, BUT- KISS. I'd agree with C&H, stick with one approach rather than changing the setup, get good at one setup first.
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Old 02-06-2018, 09:50 AM   #6
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Not even going to bother looking at the pictures... but rather point out something that I have learned from doing exactly what you are doing here. Below are the things that stuck out in my head and are important:

Quote:
53#@28. My actual draw is 31.5"-32" but only pull about 28.5"-29".

The small game are Beman Centershot 600 7gpi, 30 7/8" long shafts, 75gr insert, 100 gr point, total weight 417gr and FOC is 18.4%.

The large game are Easton Aftermaths 340 9.6gpi,31 7/8" long shafts, 75 gr insert, 175 gr point, total weight 575 gr and FOC is 20.6%.
What is good for the boar, is good for the bunny.

Your small game arrows are too light in my opinion. They are 7.5 grains per pound and your bow may not like that. That, and believe it or not, you might bounce that arrow off a jack rabbit depending on the head. Ask me how I know.

Get rid of that arrow and just pay attention to the heavier arrow. Build yourself some very inexpensive wingnut small game heads (mine come out to 175 gr... which just so happens to be the weight you need for the heavy setup.) Same arrows regardless of game.

Not only this, but then you don't have to learn different "holds" for the different arrows. (holds in quote because it could be conscious or subconscious depending on how you choose to aim)

Keep it simple, shoot one setup for all game and just get used to it. I'd be a bigger fan of just owning a different bow that you like to shoot small game with and use a different arrow for that rig. I'd say it is probably easier to switch between bows than it is arrows on the same bow.

Just my opinion...
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Old 02-06-2018, 10:20 AM   #7
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Default Tuning guidance please

I donít see any way a .600 spine shaft will work with a longer than 28Ē DL and a 50+# draw weight!!! Those shafts should be too weak no matter what you do to them!

Like said above, stick with the stiffer arrows and get them tuned well. I donít bareshaft, so I canít really interpret your results.

Also, like said above, ďwhat is good for the boar will be good for the bunnyĒ.

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Old 02-06-2018, 10:21 AM   #8
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In the quest for accuracy our first priority is to reduce variables. Everything the same every shot. All arrows the same....etc. Once you have that under control your mind can begin to make adjustments that are meaningful.
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:19 AM   #9
Briar Friar
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Good to go. KISS. Small game are no longer in the equation. I got the notion from an IBO Masters video...lighter arrow with flatter trajectory...that and the plethora of 100gr commercially available broadheads. My bow is significantly louder with the 417 gr. and noticeably more hand shock than with the 575gr. Boy do they zip. Gone.

C&H...I believe you are right about a longer draw right handed. Ive noticed it too. Awesome!

Rabbit...I think you posted a blunt tip build a while back...Im gonna search that out later.

Moving forward...what should I adjust concerning the 575s? (Im not really afraid to cut)

Thank all yall.

Last edited by Briar Friar; 02-06-2018 at 11:22 AM.. Reason: PlethoraSpake
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:47 PM   #10
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Your bare shafts are in the same group so maybe if you move back to fifteen you’ll see a little more. If it looks like that out to twenty, don’t touch anything.
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Old 02-06-2018, 01:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWood View Post
Your bare shafts are in the same group so maybe if you move back to fifteen youíll see a little more. If it looks like that out to twenty, donít touch anything.
Will do. Thanks Ken.
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briar Friar View Post
Rabbit...I think you posted a blunt tip build a while back...Im gonna search that out later.
http://discussions.texasbowhunter.co...d.php?t=527471
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:29 PM   #13
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Been there before. I tried building a set of GT Trad .600's for bunny/squirrel and some CE 250's for deer/hogs. Too darn many variables in the way to get them both to shoot the same. I mean I had to aim so much differently out at 15 yards or so that it made my head swim.

Pick one set of shafts, build them for anything up to and including WT and you should be good to go. In my case I just build and shoot the GT .600's as they fly flat for me.... that and I've got like 2 dozen of the darn things.

Richard.
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:36 PM   #14
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Here's what I did and I'm sure there are much better ways out there. My primary goal was efficiently killing whitetails. First I decided what broadhead I wanted to use (175 grain Simmons Shark). High FOC for penetration (75 grain insert). The next step was 175 grain field points and some full length 400 and 500 bare shafts. Put my wraps on the bare shafts.You might not like the next step because for me it"s the saw. Now after watching the flight of the bare shaft I start cutting the shaft ( a little at a time) until it flies straight and where I'm looking. Then fletch the shaft and paper tune. That was plenty hard enough for me, there's no way that I could attempt to do two things at the same time. Good luck hope to see you in Fredericksburg.
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:43 PM   #15
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I know I left a lot out of my explanation. Check out Black Widow's web site, he's a lot better than me. (good video)
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:12 AM   #16
Briar Friar
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Last nights 15 yd session. After grouping fletched several times in same spot I just left fletched in target and just shot bareshaft so as to not tire out too much. The droopy lighted nock was because I started pulling it but then decided to leave it for reference.
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:13 AM   #17
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Next
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:15 AM   #18
Briar Friar
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Proxima
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:15 AM   #19
Briar Friar
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And then
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:17 AM   #20
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Uno mas
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:23 AM   #21
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No mas.

What do yall think I should adjust?
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:25 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampRabbit View Post
You rule. Thanks Rabbit.

Thanks Chuck. Thanks Richard.
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:32 AM   #23
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get your bareshafts to show slightly weak and nock high. (right a few inches and low a few inches)

the feathers will stiffen your shaft a little bit, so will a wrap.

If you want to get real technical. Pick one nock and stick with it. the lighted nocks are double the weight of a regular nock.

different nocks also fit the string differently not to mention a wider nock will seperate your string nocks if you have 2 nocks on your string.
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Old 02-07-2018, 01:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgame View Post
get your bareshafts to show slightly weak and nock high. (right a few inches and low a few inches)

the feathers will stiffen your shaft a little bit, so will a wrap.

If you want to get real technical. Pick one nock and stick with it. the lighted nocks are double the weight of a regular nock.

different nocks also fit the string differently not to mention a wider nock will seperate your string nocks if you have 2 nocks on your string.
Thank you for the guidance Ballgame...Does this mean I start cutting now? Im shooting left handed.

Ive seen some of what your talking about with nocks separating...and walking the string some

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Old 02-07-2018, 02:12 PM   #25
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In that last group picture you posted:

your fletched arrows are showing nock high, and your bare shafts are showing a bit nock low.

In my opinion from seeing that, and examining the wear on your fletching, you are indeed nock low, which is causing the arrow to ramp off the shelf, and the fletching is making contact at pass causing the tail end to rise.

All purely speculation of course. Impossible to know for sure without actually witnessing the shots.

Rick
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Old 02-07-2018, 04:26 PM   #26
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Awesome! Thanks Rick. Ill start adjusting the nocking point up. The bareshafts visibly kick nock high prior to impact.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:00 AM   #27
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Thumbs up

I kept moving my nocking point higher even though (I was nocking point high per Easton tuning guide) the bareshafts were low and nock high. The groups kept getting tighter. This is 20 yards this morning...after a few rounds...then the group opened back up. Top of bottom nock is 3/8" and bottom of top is 9/16".

Im gonna try to scoot over to Double G and shoot some paper...or build me a rig.

Byron
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:23 AM   #28
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If you have the feb/mar 2015 Traditional Bowhunter magazine Denny Sturgis Jr has a real easy guide to paper tuning with a fletched shaft. Not much effort or money involved. Just a roll of cheap freezer paper and a wooden frame to stretch it across. Bare shaft tuning is hard for me because my form still sucks. If you want Iíll bring the article to you at Fredericksburg.
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Old 02-09-2018, 03:10 PM   #29
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Thank you Chuck. I think I have a freestanding range appliance box squirreled away. Im gonna fanagle something this evening with my kids art paper roll. With my long arrows Im gonna have to lay it over... shoot through the top to a bag at the bottom. Im running out of time today to get to DoubleG.
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:06 AM   #30
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Finally got a paper tuning rig built from real estate sign holder, card board, construction paper, and soccer cones for elevation.

Round 1
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:09 AM   #31
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Round 2- Five shots. Nocking high

Im gonna make some bold adjustments to my nock...down.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:06 AM   #32
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You right handed?

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Old 02-13-2018, 08:49 AM   #33
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You should really use newspaper instead of construction paper. Construction paper is way too thick and stiff. Get your nocking point right first. Adjust till there is no up or down tear to correct nocking point. Then correct any sideways tears that are causd by spine.

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Old 02-13-2018, 08:50 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
You right handed?

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Sometimes he is!

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Old 02-13-2018, 11:32 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
You right handed?

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Left. Right eye dominant... hence the dual shelf. I cc right side. My longbow is RHed. Im focusing on LH for this recurve and tuning...just feels more comfortable...for now.

Will do. Thanks Bisch.

Byron
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:42 AM   #36
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I went down 1/4" ish increments...all the way to -3/16" top and -3/8 bottom. I noticed best tears wear between 1/8"t- -1/16b and 1/16t - -1/8b. Then split the difference at 3/32t and -3/32b. I laid the paper out and tried ovals...it didnt help. Then I drew horizontal and vertical lines through where I thought the center of the point and fletchings punched tears...it helped. Im at 1/8t - -1/16b...I got some real nice horizontal tears...not pictured...when my form held good. Im gonna go back up another 1/16 tonight.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:43 PM   #37
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Default Tuning guidance please

I canít tell what Iím looking at in that picture, but you should have zero up or down tear. When you get to where you only have sideways tear (left or right) then start working on spine.

Sometimes (and Iím not saying this is the case here because I canít see the tears good enough, and I did not watch you shoot) the shooter does things that make the tear go a certain way, and until that is fixed, he would never get the correct tear, no matter what adjustments he makes.

Iíll would also make a small wager that you are still way low. Most folks get it right in the 1/2Ē to 3/4Ē area, above square, for the bottom of the top nock set.

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Old 02-15-2018, 11:58 PM   #38
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Default Tuning guidance please

See if this does not help you interpret your tears while paper tuning:



Ignore that part where it talks about moving the rest. That is for compounds. And, if you are not doing so, use fletched arrows to paper tune.

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Old 02-16-2018, 09:20 AM   #39
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Ok here's my two Cents, most Trad Guys Don't Bare Shaft Tune. Get your Arrrow's Flying True Make sure its the Proper Weight, Check for quill contact with your Rest and don't worry about how the Compound Guys do it.
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Old 02-16-2018, 11:46 AM   #40
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Quote:
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Ok here's my two Cents, most Trad Guys Don't Bare Shaft Tune. Get your Arrrow's Flying True Make sure its the Proper Weight, Check for quill contact with your Rest and don't worry about how the Compound Guys do it.
Okey dokey. I will take your two cents. Thank you!

Thanks Bisch. I didnt get a chance to adjust last night. Ill be away from the bow for several days too. I had some tears that showed nock low...I think Im close.
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