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Old 01-25-2018, 09:30 AM   #1
Russ79
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wmv video I have a solution for the illegal problem

Since there are so many liberal states that have cities, or the whole state itself, declared a sanctuary city/state, every illegal that is caught shouldn't be sent back to the country of origin- ship them to those sanctuary states and let them take care of them. Of course the flip side of that move would be for all federal money to stop flowing into states that refuse to enforce federal law. Let the states put their money where their liberal mouths are and let's see how long that lasts. Since they are so compassionate let them feed and house them.
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:36 AM   #2
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It would only work if those cities had fences around them to keep the illegals and all their legal residents in. Otherwise, we'd end up with them living in our cities pretty soon.
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:47 AM   #3
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That would be a huge expense and not solve the problem.

Build the wall, stop chain migration, stop lottery, enforce current immigration laws.

If you're already here illegally you're safe unless you violate any laws. You violate a law you booted out.
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:57 AM   #4
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Prosecute and jail people who employ them. Problem solved.

No job market for them, no illegal immigration problem.
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Old 01-25-2018, 10:16 AM   #5
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That would be a huge expense and not solve the problem.

Build the wall, stop chain migration, stop lottery, enforce current immigration laws.

If you're already here illegally you're safe unless you violate any laws. You violate a law you booted out.
Congressman Roger Williams spoke to or Rotary Club yesterday and basically said this.
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Old 01-25-2018, 10:23 AM   #6
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Prosecute and jail people who employ them. Problem solved.

No job market for them, no illegal immigration problem.
Yep, this is the easiest solution and hardly anybody speaks of it. A wall will just be a hurdle for a man trying to feed a starving family.....if he knows he can come here and get a job. We have to take away the incentive for illegals to come here. No job/No (very few) illegals. Why can't politicians talk about the REAL problem instead of leading everyone down these rabbit holes???
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Old 01-25-2018, 10:24 AM   #7
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Since there are so many liberal states that have cities, or the whole state itself, declared a sanctuary city/state, every illegal that is caught shouldn't be sent back to the country of origin- ship them to those sanctuary states and let them take care of them. Of course the flip side of that move would be for all federal money to stop flowing into states that refuse to enforce federal law. Let the states put their money where their liberal mouths are and let's see how long that lasts. Since they are so compassionate let them feed and house them.
They'll figure out a way to enable them to vote..........then what?

DJ
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Old 01-25-2018, 11:15 AM   #8
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Prosecute and jail people who employ them. Problem solved.

No job market for them, no illegal immigration problem.
You would simultaneously have to end entitlements in order to have a labor force. Who is going to actually do the work?

I've said it before, as I have lived through it. The illegals ( native Mexicans) have filled a void in the workforce. Entitlements became way too easy to acquire, and going to work became not worth the effort. The government actually knows this, and that is exactly why nothing has been done about illegal immigration.

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Old 01-25-2018, 11:45 AM   #9
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You would simultaneously have to end entitlements in order to have a labor force. Who is going to actually do the work?

I've said it before, as I have lived through it. The illegals ( native Mexicans) have filled a void in the workforce. Entitlements became way too easy to acquire, and going to work became not worth the effort. The government actually knows this, and that is exactly why nothing has been done about illegal immigration.
The work will get done. Cost will go up for sure. But supply and demand dictate that there is a price point where the work gets done. I'm all for taking away/fixing entitlements to able bodied Americans that can work for their $$.

To your second point. I'm not arguing that they don't. But If the government knows this and isn't going to do anything about illegal immigration....why would we want to waste more $$ on a wall and BP??? If we aren't going to crack down on the employers, there will always be the number of illegals here to fill that number of jobs. Might as well quit with the charades and wasting $$.
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Old 01-25-2018, 11:48 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Russ79 View Post
Since there are so many liberal states that have cities, or the whole state itself, declared a sanctuary city/state, every illegal that is caught shouldn't be sent back to the country of origin- ship them to those sanctuary states and let them take care of them. Of course the flip side of that move would be for all federal money to stop flowing into states that refuse to enforce federal law. Let the states put their money where their liberal mouths are and let's see how long that lasts. Since they are so compassionate let them feed and house them.
One problem... some of those states are making it possible for the illegals to VOTE.
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:11 PM   #11
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The work will get done. Cost will go up for sure. But supply and demand dictate that there is a price point where the work gets done. I'm all for taking away/fixing entitlements to able bodied Americans that can work for their $$.

To your second point. I'm not arguing that they don't. But If the government knows this and isn't going to do anything about illegal immigration....why would we want to waste more $$ on a wall and BP??? If we aren't going to crack down on the employers, there will always be the number of illegals here to fill that number of jobs. Might as well quit with the charades and wasting $$.
If you look at the rise in entitlements, it is in direct correlation to illegal immigration. As I stated, there was a void filled. By simply stating that the work will get done, doesn't make it true.

Listen, back in the 70's and some of the 80's, most of your labor intensive trades were performed by black crews. Concrete, masonry, roofing etc. Who are the crews performing those trades now? Why is that? And to insist that people hire illegals in order to save on labor cost, is speaking from pure ignorance. That BS statement may hold true for a homeowner picking up day labor hanging around 7-eleven or Home Depot, but that is definitely not the case in the large scheme of things.
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:26 PM   #12
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I would also like to propose that any snowflake millennial that thinks Socialism or Communism is better than a representative Democracy, will be sent to what ever poop hole county practices the government of they think is best. I would also like to propose this for the gays and women in support of Sharia.
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:30 PM   #13
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If you look at the rise in entitlements, it is in direct correlation to illegal immigration. As I stated, there was a void filled. By simply stating that the work will get done, doesn't make it true.

Listen, back in the 70's and some of the 80's, most of your labor intensive trades were performed by black crews. Concrete, masonry, roofing etc. Who are the crews performing those trades now? Why is that? And to insist that people hire illegals in order to save on labor cost, is speaking from pure ignorance. That BS statement may hold true for a homeowner picking up day labor hanging around 7-eleven or Home Depot, but that is definitely not the case in the large scheme of things.
I guess I don't understand your point. Do you think we need illegals or certain jobs will not get performed? Do you think our country should enforce our illegal immigration laws?
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:53 PM   #14
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I guess I don't understand your point. Do you think we need illegals or certain jobs will not get performed? Do you think our country should enforce our illegal immigration laws?
There's not a doubt in my mind that if you could somehow magically remove all illegals at one time, this countries economy would collapse.

Of course immigration laws should be enforced. The major problem is, it's not NEAR as easy to get citizenship in this country as most people think. If you recall in, in one of these threads, there was an Immigration Officer that replied on the requirements of becoming a citizen. Basically, if you had a skill or expertise in certain fields, you could proceed through the process. Labor doesn't fall in that criteria. You are always attempting to get me to say that illegal immigration is ok. It is not! I'm simply stating what THE FACTS ACTUALLY ARE. Whether you like, or agree with the facts, I'm not sure, but the facts seem to elude most people.

Mike Rowe is pushing hard for younger people to learn trades. He ACTUALLY UNDERSTANDS what the problem is, as far as the labor force and illegal immigration, in this country. Too many people push for the younger generation to go to college and get a degree. In times past, that meant a whole lot more than it does today. When "everyone" (sarcasm) has a degree, then what is a degree really worth? How many people with degrees are unemployed or unhappy, because they aren't getting paid what THEY think they are worth? I mean, go to college and get a degree, and you will make great money, right? Yeah? No, not necessarily.

How many kids go to trade school right out of high school these days? What about in the 70's and 80's. There is a direct correlation to the issue we have today, and to assume I'm ok with the way it is, is simply not true. But the truth is what it is.
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:04 PM   #15
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There's not a doubt in my mind that if you could somehow magically remove all illegals at one time, this countries economy would collapse.
It would definitely hurt a lot of industries. I don't like the idea of any path to citizenship for people who came here illegally, but I do think we should make it much easier to get a work visa for certain industries like agriculture (because honestly, no one wants to pick fruit out in the blazing sun for $7 / hr), so we can have these people paying taxes, and here legally. Then they begin the green card process like everyone else.

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Mike Rowe is pushing hard for younger people to learn trades. He ACTUALLY UNDERSTANDS what the problem is, as far as the labor force and illegal immigration, in this country. Too many people push for the younger generation to go to college and get a degree. In times past, that meant a whole lot more than it does today. When "everyone" (sarcasm) has a degree, then what is a degree really worth? How many people with degrees are unemployed or unhappy, because they aren't getting paid what THEY think they are worth? I mean, go to college and get a degree, and you will make great money, right? Yeah? No, not necessarily.

How many kids go to trade school right out of high school these days? What about in the 70's and 80's. There is a direct correlation to the issue we have today, and to assume I'm ok with the way it is, is simply not true. But the truth is what it is.
This. Germany has been using a dual education system (apprenticeships) for almost 50 years and it has been a huge boon for their economy.
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:29 PM   #16
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There's not a doubt in my mind that if you could somehow magically remove all illegals at one time, this countries economy would collapse.
Why do you think the economy would collapse? I see the cost of goods increasing significantly.....to the (non-"subsidized" ) level they really should be.

Trump is trying to bring more companies and therefore jobs back to America. This will cause the cost of those goods and services to increase. Will this also contribute to the collapse of our economy?
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:46 PM   #17
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It would definitely hurt a lot of industries. I don't like the idea of any path to citizenship for people who came here illegally, but I do think we should make it much easier to get a work visa for certain industries like agriculture (because honestly, no one wants to pick fruit out in the blazing sun for $7 / hr), so we can have these people paying taxes, and here legally. Then they begin the green card process like everyone else.



This. Germany has been using a dual education system (apprenticeships) for almost 50 years and it has been a huge boon for their economy.


Unfortunately for the last decade they have been letting uneducated muslims into their country and the future for that country is devastation.
I do agree that the apprenticeship programs should be a huge part of our ed.system.
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:49 PM   #18
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Wait yall aren't for having an underclass of brown people in this country? Honestly not sure why we even pay them if we are taking care of their room and board through welfare.
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Old 01-25-2018, 03:04 PM   #19
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Why do you think the economy would collapse? I see the cost of goods increasing significantly.....to the (non-"subsidized" ) level they really should be.

Trump is trying to bring more companies and therefore jobs back to America. This will cause the cost of those goods and services to increase. Will this also contribute to the collapse of our economy?
Keep trying dude. It's not working. If you can't understand the reality of it, I can't understand it for you.

BTW, the construction industry is a 1.7 TRILLION dollar industry. That's annually.
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Old 01-25-2018, 03:18 PM   #20
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Thanks for the thoughtful economics lesson.
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Old 01-25-2018, 03:22 PM   #21
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Thanks for the thoughtful economics lesson.
You're most welcome.
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Old 01-25-2018, 04:16 PM   #22
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Keep trying dude. It's not working. If you can't understand the reality of it, I can't understand it for you.

BTW, the construction industry is a 1.7 TRILLION dollar industry. That's annually.
Yea, and the construction industry is filled with jobs that are NOT low pay jobs either... It's been taken over in some cases forcefully by illegals and their supporters... I really don't have a dog in this fight other than I'm an American that strongly believes in the rule of law and America first...

But there used to be an apprentice program where construction companies would take young people into the trades and teach them... You cannot get that done now unless you meet 2 rules... Illegal and/or fer-ners here legally... Ain't many white boys out there in the construction industry now a days...
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Old 01-25-2018, 07:22 PM   #23
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That would be a huge expense and not solve the problem.

Build the wall, stop chain migration, stop lottery, enforce current immigration laws.

If you're already here illegally you're safe unless you violate any laws. You violate a law you booted out.


Ummmmm if they are here illegally theyíve already broken the law so.......


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Old 01-25-2018, 07:45 PM   #24
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Ummmmm if they are here illegally theyíve already broken the law so.......


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Most will say the DACA kids didn't break the law. Their parents did, but not the kids.

Deporting every single illegal would be political suicide.
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Old 01-25-2018, 08:19 PM   #25
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Fix the problem? Easy.... pull our aid from every other nation in the UN and across the globe and pour that money into an economic invasion of Mexico. Conquer it and divide it up into separate states. Add those states stars to our flag. Eliminate the drug cartels down there by force. Prop up the economies of each new state. If my home country is doing well I'll not leave, make it so the south end of North America is stable.

That's about a doable as rounding folks up and forcing them into sanctuary states/cities and then cutting them off from the federal government.

I speak of Mexico not because I think they are the only peoples that are running from a war torn land trying to provide for their families but because they are close and we can consolidate the warmer more productive part of a continent within our borders.

Throwing them out makes no sense. Yes they are here illegally. So what. If you were in a country where you never knew if you were going to come home alive or if you were going to come home to a dead family wouldn't you leave??? I would and I'd be ****ed if I gave a **** about the laws there, keep my family alive..... period.

The only thing I don't agree with is that some of the folks that come here to better themselves or their lives refuse to give up this fierce "pride" of where they came from. If you are so proud....... stay the **** home and fix it.

I meet people daily who are here on visas working through college and are close to their time running out. They all want the same thing. To stay and become part of this great nation. The process, even for folks that have been here for 6 years and are close to completing a masters degree, is too long and too arduous.

Reform the process or reform the nearest principle country that sends it's folks to us.

Hell I'd be happy if Trump penned a blanket citizenship law for everyone in the country illegally right now. Give them a state ID, SS# and start taxing them to boost our own economy.

Richard.
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Old 01-25-2018, 08:57 PM   #26
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Most will say the DACA kids didn't break the law. Their parents did, but not the kids.



Deporting every single illegal would be political suicide.


Tough ****. Doesnít change the fact they are in the country illegally. I might be ok with them being allowed to stay as long as they apply for legalization within a 12 month time frame.


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Old 01-25-2018, 09:03 PM   #27
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90% of the illegals are paying taxes now. They have fake SS numbers that they give to their employers. The government loves them.
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:04 PM   #28
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Yea, and the construction industry is filled with jobs that are NOT low pay jobs either... It's been taken over in some cases forcefully by illegals and their supporters... I really don't have a dog in this fight other than I'm an American that strongly believes in the rule of law and America first...



But there used to be an apprentice program where construction companies would take young people into the trades and teach them... You cannot get that done now unless you meet 2 rules... Illegal and/or fer-ners here legally... Ain't many white boys out there in the construction industry now a days...


If I had a $1 for every time Iíve heard the 20 something year old white boy say, ďI ainít doing that! Thatís a a Mexicanís job.Ē, Iíd have a lot of dollars. I was self employed in the oilfield for several years and worked with crews from other service companies. Nobody wanted the legal 4 man white boy crew showing up. Send that 4 man illegal Mexican crew. Thatís when sh*t got done. Quickly, efficiently, and the quality of work was always better. Right or wrong, thatís just the truth.


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Old 01-25-2018, 09:07 PM   #29
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If I had a $1 for every time Iíve heard the 20 something year old white boy say, ďI ainít doing that! Thatís a a Mexicanís job.Ē, Iíd have a lot of dollars. I was self employed in the oilfield for several years and worked with crews from other service companies. Nobody wanted the legal 4 man white boy crew showing up. Send that 4 man illegal Mexican crew. Thatís when sh*t got done. Quickly, efficiently, and the quality of work was always better. Right or wrong, thatís just the truth.


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Truth!!^^^ Iíve never had a white boy show up asking for a job on the turf farm.
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:43 PM   #30
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If I had a $1 for every time Iíve heard the 20 something year old white boy say, ďI ainít doing that! Thatís a a Mexicanís job.Ē, Iíd have a lot of dollars. I was self employed in the oilfield for several years and worked with crews from other service companies. Nobody wanted the legal 4 man white boy crew showing up. Send that 4 man illegal Mexican crew. Thatís when sh*t got done. Quickly, efficiently, and the quality of work was always better. Right or wrong, thatís just the truth.


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Word!
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:57 PM   #31
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I guess if all illegals were deported tomorrow, all tough manual labor jobs would disappear. We would have no more fruit, vegetables, milk, beef, chicken, concrete, framing, roofs, air conditioning, or oil.....and everyone's lawns would be 3 ft tall. I guess y'all are right. We better not mess with all these illegals holding our economy together.

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Old 01-25-2018, 10:18 PM   #32
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I guess if all illegals were deported tomorrow, all tough manual labor jobs would disappear. We would have no more fruit, vegetables, milk, beef, chicken, concrete, framing, roofs, air conditioning, or oil.....and everyone's lawns would be 3 ft tall. I guess y'all are right. We better not mess with all these illegals holding our economy together.


The tough manual labor jobs wonít disappear, theyíll just take 10 times as long to get done. Then theyíll have to be be redone. Iíve lived this for 20+ years. Itís not just manual labor jobs either. There are a lot of skilled, semi skilled positions being held by illegals.

Iím not pro illegal immigration, but itís been allowed to get to the point it has. There are now people that were brought here and this is all they know. If theyíre working, not leeching off of society then give them a chance. Make them ineligible for any sort of welfare. Make them learn English. Make them fully assimilate. One screw up and youíre gone for good. Build the wall now and donít allow a 3 year old to be brought here, raised, then tell them youíre shipping them back to a foreign country they know nothing about when theyíre 25. Believe it or not many of them are contributing positively.


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Old 01-25-2018, 10:44 PM   #33
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Like Trump said, I'm sure some illegals are good people. They are also criminals. When you say that many are contributing positively.....are you considering the burden/cost that they put on our healthcare, welfare, and education systems?
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Old 01-25-2018, 10:46 PM   #34
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The tough manual labor jobs wonít disappear, theyíll just take 10 times as long to get done. Then theyíll have to be be redone. Iíve lived this for 20+ years. Itís not just manual labor jobs either. There are a lot of skilled, semi skilled positions being held by illegals.

Iím not pro illegal immigration, but itís been allowed to get to the point it has. There are now people that were brought here and this is all they know. If theyíre working, not leeching off of society then give them a chance. Make them ineligible for any sort of welfare. Make them learn English. Make them fully assimilate. One screw up and youíre gone for good. Build the wall now and donít allow a 3 year old to be brought here, raised, then tell them youíre shipping them back to a foreign country they know nothing about when theyíre 25. Believe it or not many of them are contributing positively.


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Don't waste your time. He has it in his mind how everything should be, although the facts clearly show he is wrong. He will come up with snide remarks to condemn anyone who actually understands what is truly going on, but offer absolutely no facts, other than his utopian opinion.
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Old 01-25-2018, 10:59 PM   #35
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Spell it out for all of us Ironman. Explain how paying more for a service, and that money going into the hand of an American worker......will cause the strongest economy in the world to collapse. Let's hear these facts you speak of.
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Old 01-25-2018, 11:09 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by LWC View Post
Spell it out for all of us Ironman. Explain how paying more for a service, and that money going into the hand of an American worker......will cause the strongest economy in the world to collapse. Let's hear these facts you speak of.
Again, your ignorance is showing. It doesn't matter if it's an American born white boy, or a native Mexican doing the work. The PAY WILL NOT CHANGE. This idea that people are paying Mexicans LESS MONEY to do the same job is PURELY WRONG. You don't know about what you speak. Having said that, your ignorance is extremely strong on this subject. Like I said before, we aren't talking about day labor from 7-Eleven.

There is still training and certifications that are needed in order to work on most job sites, REGARDLESS OF THIER NATIONALITY. Again, you have absolutely no clue of what you spew.
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Old 01-25-2018, 11:32 PM   #37
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So how does paying an American the same as an illegal cause the economy to collapse....if immigration laws are enforced and illegals return to their own country? Does it have to do with Bitcoin??? Because I'll admit to not fully understanding the economics of the bitcoin
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Old 01-25-2018, 11:38 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by LWC View Post
So how does paying an American the same as an illegal cause the economy to collapse....if immigration laws are enforced and illegals return to their own country? Does it have to do with Bitcoin??? Because I'll admit to not fully understanding the economics of the bitcoin
It doesn't. We simply don't have the workforce that are Americans. That's what I've been trying to explain to you, but you insist on not listening to that fact.

Do you know what Davis Bacon is, and how it applies to the construction industry?
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Old 01-26-2018, 12:10 AM   #39
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LWC & Ironman...both of you are on the same page 'i think' but just looking through the glass differently.

You simply gotta end bogus entitlements!! 90% are working the system who could actually be doing the labor the illegals are willing to do, but why would they?? It's a system that rewards laziness & empowers those who keep the system in place. Nobody likes to say it, but hunger is a hell of a motivator. There was avery interesting study done by state & the available entitlements. Those that know how to play the system have figured out how to make $40k+ doing nothing (no taxes!!). Where is the incentive to hang drywall??

You cut that crap out & that 90% that are able to work will get after it when their stomachs are empty...the costs should not go up. When I was in construction, most illegals from our sub-contractors were making more than min-wage.

You guys are gritching over a systemic game being paid by the tax-payers...the only winners are the dead beat Americans claiming the world is against them & are owed something by those who bust their *** only to have their paychecks sucked by the very parasites (politicians) who perpetuate this vicious monster cycle we are in. The illegals willing to work are simply pot licking the available labor that is needed. They are not being taken advantage of for lower wages cheating americans, it's simply more advantageous & easier to be on entitlements because we allow it. Take it away & the need for food / shelter by those forced off entitlements will dwindle the illegal force. This whole deal has brother fighting brother when it's our own govt who created the boxing ring.
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Old 01-26-2018, 12:17 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Artos View Post
LWC & Ironman...both of you are on the same page 'i think' but just looking through the glass differently.

You simply gotta end bogus entitlements!! 90% are working the system who could actually be doing the labor the illegals are willing to do, but why would they?? It's a system that rewards laziness & empowers those who keep the system in place. Nobody likes to say it, but hunger is a hell of a motivator. There was avery interesting study done by state & the available entitlements. Those that know how to play the system have figured out how to make $40k+ doing nothing (no taxes!!). Where is the incentive to hang drywall??

You cut that crap out & that 90% that are able to work will get after it when their stomachs are empty...the costs should not go up. When I was in construction, most illegals from our sub-contractors were making more than min-wage.

You guys are gritching over a systemic game being paid by the tax-payers...the only winners are the dead beat Americans claiming the world is against them & are owed something by those who bust their *** only to have their paychecks sucked by the very parasites (politicians) who perpetuate this vicious monster cycle we are in. The illegals willing to work are simply pot licking the available labor that is needed. They are not being taken advantage of for lower wages cheating americans, it's simply more advantageous & easier to be on entitlements because we allow it. Take it away & the need for food / shelter by those forced off entitlements will dwindle the illegal force. This whole deal has brother fighting brother when it's our own govt who created the boxing ring.
That's exactly what I have been saying. I have even given the correlation between entitlements going up and illegal immigration. It's not that hard to see what the real problem is.

Having said that, America has more work going on, than we have American workers to do the job. The Mexican workforce is not going away. It's that simple.

Last edited by Ironman; 01-26-2018 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 01-26-2018, 12:55 AM   #41
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Agreed...all I'm saying is if entitlements were eliminated to the vast majority who are more than capable of doing the same labor (we all know this to be the case) the said able american workforce would fill almost all the void you say we have too much work to cover. It's sad to say & willing to bet you a bottle of your favorite hooch that we have WAY more able americans on entitlements capable of doing the work & do not need any magical number of illegals to fill a void. Trust me when I say it's even hard to find quality workers in the maquila industry & very competitive.

nor is it the greedy US businessman taking advantage of cheap labor...the entitlement system & her reward for doing squat that has caused our problem!! The idiotic press is the culprit who claims the biz owner does not want to pay fair wages and perpetuates the problem along with the elected officials who made this mess.



THIS is the actual problem...
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Old 01-26-2018, 07:00 AM   #42
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They get paid the same wages and often times more because they are better workers.
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Old 01-26-2018, 08:01 AM   #43
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They get paid the same wages and often times more because they are better workers.
OK, but what if illegals weren't here to do the jobs? Would the wages be the same for the next man up? Or would employers have to pay more to get an American to do whatever manual labor job?
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Old 01-26-2018, 08:04 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artos View Post
Agreed...all I'm saying is if entitlements were eliminated to the vast majority who are more than capable of doing the same labor (we all know this to be the case) the said able american workforce would fill almost all the void you say we have too much work to cover. It's sad to say & willing to bet you a bottle of your favorite hooch that we have WAY more able americans on entitlements capable of doing the work & do not need any magical number of illegals to fill a void. Trust me when I say it's even hard to find quality workers in the maquila industry & very competitive.

nor is it the greedy US businessman taking advantage of cheap labor...the entitlement system & her reward for doing squat that has caused our problem!! The idiotic press is the culprit who claims the biz owner does not want to pay fair wages and perpetuates the problem along with the elected officials who made this mess.



THIS is the actual problem...
(CNSNews.com) - In the fourth quarter of 2011, 49.2 percent of Americans received benefits from one or more government programs, according to data released Tuesday by the Census Bureau.

By the end of Obama's rule the percentage was well over 55%. This only means that the 45% of the rest of us is working to support those that sit on the fat lazy azz and smoke dope all day.
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Old 01-26-2018, 08:14 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by muzzlebrake View Post
(CNSNews.com) - In the fourth quarter of 2011, 49.2 percent of Americans received benefits from one or more government programs, according to data released Tuesday by the Census Bureau.

By the end of Obama's rule the percentage was well over 55%. This only means that the 45% of the rest of us is working to support those that sit on the fat lazy azz and smoke dope all day.
I'm not sure which programs this article is referring to, but using a government program does not always mean that people are lazy and sit on their ***. The va is a huge govt program. Ag programs are huge. every farmer that uses a subsidized insurance program certainly isn't a lazy @ss.

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Old 01-26-2018, 08:26 AM   #46
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Artos, I agree with most of your points. We need to fix entitlements for sure. We also need to enforce immigration laws. Doing both would correct most of the problems. Doing either one would correct a lot of the problems.

I guess I just hate the argument that Americans won't do whatever job. Americans will do any job that illegals will do. They just won't do it for the same wages an illegal will do them for. There is a price where each one of us will scrub out porta pottys. For some it may be $20 an hour. For others it may be $2,000 an hour before you would do it. But there is a point where everyone able, would do it. My point is that illegal workers "artificially" bring labor wages to a point that they would not be naturally.

Now getting rid of illegals would will definitely cause the cost of labor to increase. Some will argue that this will destroy the economy. I would argue that higher wages to Americans will keep that money in the American economy. Where right now, a good deal of the labor dollars go back to the illegals' country of origin.
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Old 01-26-2018, 08:29 AM   #47
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Quote:
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OK, but what if illegals weren't here to do the jobs? Would the wages be the same for the next man up? Or would employers have to pay more to get an American to do whatever manual labor job?
Same. The market itself determines wages. At least in my field it does.
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Old 01-26-2018, 08:35 AM   #48
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Artos, I agree with most of your points. We need to fix entitlements for sure. We also need to enforce immigration laws. Doing both would correct most of the problems. Doing either one would correct a lot of the problems.

I guess I just hate the argument that Americans won't do whatever job. Americans will do any job that illegals will do. They just won't do it for the same wages an illegal will do them for. There is a price where each one of us will scrub out porta pottys. For some it may be $20 an hour. For others it may be $2,000 an hour before you would do it. But there is a point where everyone able, would do it. My point is that illegal workers "artificially" bring labor wages to a point that they would not be naturally.

Now getting rid of illegals would will definitely cause the cost of labor to increase. Some will argue that this will destroy the economy. I would argue that higher wages to Americans will keep that money in the American economy. Where right now, a good deal of the labor dollars go back to the illegals' country of origin.
Once again, do you know what Davis Bacon is? Why you have in your head that illegals artificially bring down wages, I have no clue. Markets themselves will determine what wages can stand.........unless of course you're Bernie, then every high school kid at McDonalds should make $15 an hour. See how that works? Is that what this is all about? Are you a secret Socialist?
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Old 01-26-2018, 08:50 AM   #49
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Same. The market itself determines wages. At least in my field it does.
I agree that the market determines the wages. Maybe you will admit that a market with 15,000,000 or so illegal workers is a lot different market than one with 0 illegal workers.

There would be less supply of workers and close to the same demand for labor. What happens then?
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Old 01-26-2018, 08:56 AM   #50
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I agree that the market determines the wages. Maybe you will admit that a market with 15,000,000 or so illegal workers is a lot different market than one with 0 illegal workers.

There would be less supply of workers and close to the same demand for labor. What happens then?
Keep on with your hypotheticals. It changes nothing.
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