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Old 02-10-2018, 07:35 PM   #1
JFISHER
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What am I missing here?

I added this panel to my shop several months ago... only the odd 1, 3, 5 spaces have juice.

please be gentle... I am NOT an electrician by an stretch of the imagination.

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Old 02-10-2018, 07:39 PM   #2
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You only took 110 to the panel.
One hot
One neutral

You need another hot for the lug on the far right.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:40 PM   #3
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Oh my! So many things wrong here!

The white neutral wire coming out of the back of sub panel is terminated in the wrong spot. This should go where your black wire is terminated. Your black wire coming out the back of panel should be landed on the far right lug. Your ground should be made up but not bonded if this is a sub panel.

Whatís unknown is the breaker thatís feeding this panel. Is it a single pole or two pole breaker?? I would not plug anything in you care about until this is fixed.

Last edited by Electrican; 02-10-2018 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:42 PM   #4
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There is a lot of issues in that panel by the way.

In my opinion very unsafe
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:43 PM   #5
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Oh my x 2
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Oh my! So many things wrong here!
Just like your avatar picture.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:44 PM   #7
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Obama thinks thats a clock.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:47 PM   #8
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Is that a hot leg hooked up to the neutral bar? And and a neutral hooked to the bus? Please call an electrician..
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Just like your avatar picture.
The best! Really hope you arenít the other major brand fan boy.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:50 PM   #10
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Serous question here. Does any of the plugs actually work??
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:52 PM   #11
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Oh and I might or might not have saved this pic for future use. Lol
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:54 PM   #12
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Stop what you are doing!
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:57 PM   #13
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You need to kill the power to it and then call an electrician.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
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The best! Really hope you arenít the other major brand fan boy.
Iím a ďPRIMEĒ fan.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Serous question here. Does any of the plugs actually work??
Yeah everything works lol

I think the main confusion here are the wire color mismatch.

Yes this is a sub panel.

Coming from the main at the house it starts as 3 wire red, white, black from a 30 amp 2 pole.

Prior to my running this out to the shop, this circuit used to terminate at an old 240 window unit AC or swamp cooler. (old house)

Since I wasn't going to use either of those I decided to run it out to my shop for lights and a few outlets. Over the passed few years I decided it was time to dump the 1950'e fuse box that was out there.

If I recall, what is "running out to the panel" now is one leg of that 30 on the main and neutral. The original red leg is simply wire nutted off, taped and inside a junction box, as I only have 10/2 (with ground) between the main and shop panel.


Should I ditch the 2 pole at the main breaker or run the 3 wire (red/black) all the way out there? I don't have anything out there that requires 240.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrican View Post
Oh and I might or might not have saved this pic for future use. Lol
LMAO... you wouldn't believe what I did to determine "which wire should I use "

I basically hooked the shop end wire to my the (rest in peace) shop vac.... and turned it on so I'd be able to hear it and know there was juice flowing...turned off the 2 pole breaker at the house, then started twisting wires. Flipped the breaker... Cool! shop vac obviously running.

Started walking out there... then saw the smoke. Ran back and flipped the breaker. That's when I think I realized that this was a 240 circuit.

SO I basically eliminated one side of it... then used the same process of elimination (meaning, no fires or sparks yet) process to reconnect to the new sub panel.


This IS the DIY thread right
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:12 PM   #17
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This is what's at the house end...

leading to the shop

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Last edited by JFISHER; 02-10-2018 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFISHER View Post
LMAO... you wouldn't believe what I did to determine "which wire should I use "

I basically hooked the shop end wire to my the (rest in peace) shop vac.... and turned it on so I'd be able to hear it and know there was juice flowing...turned off the 2 pole breaker at the house, then started twisting wires. Flipped the breaker... Cool! shop vac obviously running.

Started walking out there... then saw the smoke. Ran back and flipped the breaker. That's when I think I realized that this was a 240 circuit.

SO I basically eliminated one side of it... then used the same process of elimination (meaning, no fires or sparks yet) process to reconnect to the new sub panel.


This IS the DIY thread right

Ahh the ole smoke check method. Makes sense now. Lol
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Ahh the ole smoke check method. Makes sense now. Lol
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:50 PM   #20
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Sir... Please call an electrician. I'm not trying to be rude or funny but there is literally nothing right about that panel so far.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:14 PM   #21
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Where is the red wire coming from the house, it is not in the other box? Generally speaking white is ground, and black is hot. They seem to be backwards in your sub box. The red and black (both hot) from the house should go on the bars that the breakers hook to, cant remember the technical name (red on one black on the other). The white should go to the ground bar
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:48 PM   #22
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Don’t forget you need to have a isolated ground from your neutral bar.
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Donít forget you need to have a isolated ground from your neutral bar.

It's isolated alright. The ground wire from the romex feeder isn't hooked up to anything and the ground wire(s) have been cut off of the romex on the load side.
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:28 PM   #24
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You really need to get a qualified electrician out there. Lots wrong here.
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:32 PM   #25
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Seriously, like the others said - turn off the power and slowly back away. Call an electrician. We can tell you what to do, but considering all the things wrong with that panel, I would be concerned to help you go any further.
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:34 PM   #26
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Please just pay an electrician to come out there.
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:46 PM   #27
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Thanks guys. I appreciate the concerns, really. I've been operating the shop as is with several overhead lights, band saw, table saw, air cleaner, vac system and replying via my shop PC.

I am planning a complete redo from the house to shop, soon as I can get my friend the electrician over for a 6 pack or 2... he likes him some beer

It's been "good enough" while I was just using the shop for storage, but now that I spend 80% of my free time out here, well, time to get it done.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:18 PM   #28
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Okay - Here is how it is supposed to be. White wire is neutral, black is 110v, and red is 110v. Move the black wire to where the white wire is and the white wire to where the black wire is. Connect the bare wire to the green screw. The red wire goes to the big lug on the far right. Without the red wire you will not have power to half of the circuits. I still suggest you get an electrician because if the wiring/house is old or worked on over the years there is no telling what is going on. An electrician will verify the circuit in the main box and each wire going into the new panel. If you can't verify the main panel or have a good knowledge of a voltmeter, it is impossible for us to safely tell you what is right.

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Old 02-11-2018, 12:22 AM   #29
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And probably the least of your worries here but 14 awg wire is only good for 15 amps. Probably should shuck the 20 and 30 amp single pole breakers in the sub panel while you’re at it.
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:06 PM   #30
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I think you best get your electrician a 24 pack.... ;-) of you need the extra circuits I would replace the wire from you j-box with one so that you can get 220v at this panel.
if its not that far replace entire run to the shop. blk and red to the hot lugs and the neutral(white) to the neutral bar and ground the ground bar minus a bod between the ground and neutral bar ( although I do not see a ground bar in this panel. )
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:45 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_gun View Post
I think you best get your electrician a 24 pack.... ;-) of you need the extra circuits I would replace the wire from you j-box with one so that you can get 220v at this panel.
if its not that far replace entire run to the shop. blk and red to the hot lugs and the neutral(white) to the neutral bar and ground the ground bar minus a bod between the ground and neutral bar ( although I do not see a ground bar in this panel. )
Why would you need a ground bar? All the grounds are snipped off. Sarcasm
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:55 PM   #32
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You should turn that off and call out an electrician
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:09 PM   #33
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"I am NOT an electrician by an stretch of the imagination"
I think this is an understatement!
Next time just ask and I'm sure one of us will be glad to help before you or someone else gets hurt.
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hot_rod_eddie View Post
Why would you need a ground bar? All the grounds are snipped off. Sarcasm
Bootleg ground
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:05 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_gun View Post
I think you best get your electrician a 24 pack.... ;-) of you need the extra circuits I would replace the wire from you j-box with one so that you can get 220v at this panel.
if its not that far replace entire run to the shop. blk and red to the hot lugs and the neutral(white) to the neutral bar and ground the ground bar minus a bod between the ground and neutral bar ( although I do not see a ground bar in this panel. )
That's the plan. Rewired what is there today. Tested all outlets, 2 amber all grounded. Polarity, check.

I was also told that since this is basically a sub panel, it wouldn't need it's own separate ground.
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:12 PM   #36
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SLOWLY back away from the Breaker box with your hands above your head..
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:18 PM   #37
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You still need a separate ground. It just doesnt get bonded to your neutral. You also have fire hazards with those breakers on 14 awg romex.
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:35 PM   #38
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The panel still needs a ground. All the copper wires go to a ground bar similar to how all the white wire go one bar. One copper wire goes from the bar back to the main panel. In the main panel the bar for the white wire and the bars for the copper wires are joined together (bonded). You don't bond a subpanel. Like other have said, the wires going to your loads are too small for the breaker size. Therefore you will let the smoke out of the wires before the breakers trip. This defeats the purpose and leads to a fire.
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:47 PM   #39
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Make sure your insurance is up to date and will cover fire. Also, you can seriously screw up anything of electronics right now.

As others have said, I would kill the breaker and back away until you get someone out there that knows what they are doing.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:43 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by systemnt View Post
Obama thinks thats a clock.
Lol

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:13 PM   #41
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As for the wire running from the House (30 amp double pole) do I calculate for each leg separate, or combined... meaning, 12 gauge for 15 amps each or 10 for the combined 30?
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