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Old 06-14-2018, 06:28 PM   #51
okrattler
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Out of all the things there are in the world to be offended by or worried about this is what we're focused on? Changing the name of a school...ha!....yeah ok. Instead of changing the name of the school maybe buy a metal detector for the kids to walk through when they get there so maybe,just maybe they won't get shot up by a lunatic.

If a school named after someone that's been dead for years and years and years and years and years and years and years and years and years, is on your list of things to worry about you HAVE to get a hobby. Because that's stupid.

Although I envy anyone that has that kind of time on their hands. I wish I could just sit at home all day and think of ways to be offended and cry about things that have nothing to do with me or anyone in present day America.

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Old 06-14-2018, 06:50 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Da' Hitman View Post
Just a nugget to ponder....

Would you expect surviving Jews and their children in Germany to attend Hitler HS or walk by statues of Gestapo soldiers? I once heard a man make this anology and it completely changed my mind on this issue. I am not personally offended by statues or building names, but i can't just poo-poo away someone else feeling tormented by confederate tributes
If someone's old enough to remember the Civil War I could understand. But there isn't anyone that is. I don't care who did what to who. I don't owe nobody nothin. If you ain't ever seen a cotton field,let alone walked out in one and picked some of it I don't wanna hear it.

At some point every race and type of human being possible was treated unfairly. The past is the past....

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Old 06-14-2018, 07:35 PM   #53
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Why is this garbage not throw out of our court rooms?? Why are there lawyers backing this crap??
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:48 PM   #54
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Too many liberal judges. Too many greedy lawyers trying to make a name for themselves.

Shame it’s happening in Texas. More liberal nut jobs moving here everyday trying to turn it into the ****hole they left. Defies all logic.


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Old 06-14-2018, 08:10 PM   #55
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They changed the name of Robert E Lee St downtown a few weeks ago
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:10 PM   #56
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The only arguments here that make any sense to me are wanting to not waste the money on a name change and there being bigger fish to fry in the world than being offended by a school name.

I sure don’t understand why people seem to think that changing the name of a school erases history from the history books. Poorly written history books erase history, not a school name change.

I also don’t understand the argument of “slavery is bad, but it nobody should be offended by slave holder’s names” argument.

I say, figure out all the biggr problmes of the world first, then spend a million dollars on this once there is no possible thing that the money would be better spent on (like that would ever happen).

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Old 06-14-2018, 08:39 PM   #57
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So what about all of those pesky slave owner presidents this country has had? Guess we're gonna have to take their face off of any currency and replace it with Obama's face since we're so sorry about it.
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:44 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Cajun Blake View Post
This stuff will NEVER end because much of the current, younger generation are fed liberal BS in school and they believe it. Actual history is not being taught because professors are allowed to share their personal opinions rather than the truth. Confront a tenured professor about the truth and you'll likely receive a failing grade for insubordination.

Kids today (16-25 yr olds) wanna be a part of "change" and will stand for anything that liberates them from the past. If someone feels "oppressed", left-wingers will jump on the band wagon to make sure their voice is heard regardless of what the facts are.
Blake you are 100% on the money!!
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:08 PM   #59
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I'm by no means racist but, had the African ancestors not been slaves, most African American people would still be in Africa fighting lions with sticks and flies with some sort of leaves. If people who have ancestors that were slave owners would throw the same fit, we would be changing the street name "Martin Luther King" in every town in America!

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Old 06-14-2018, 09:16 PM   #60
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When slavery comes up I wish 2 facts would be stated on a regular basis. #1, Africans enslaved the black man and sold him off to the slave traders. #2, The first American slave owner was a black man

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Old 06-14-2018, 09:33 PM   #61
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When slavery comes up I wish 2 facts would be stated on a regular basis. #1, Africans enslaved the black man and sold him off to the slave traders. #2, The first American slave owner was a black man

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And slaves were all colors, not just black or of African descent.
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:46 PM   #62
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No dog in the fight but I did live in Tyler for about 3 years back in the 90's. I know both schools pretty well. JT on the North side and REL on the loop! But YES, my school name was changed while I was in school. Not because of slave holders but because one bigger school was built. The community fought over which school name to keep. Neither won!!! Brand new school with a new name …………….West St. John Rams!!! Still winning STATE titles and sending kids to universities all over the country.....business a usual.
Moral: Some fights really don't matter if the kids are getting educated!
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:58 PM   #63
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Would you expect surviving Jews and their children in Germany to attend Hitler HS or walk by statues of Gestapo soldiers? I once heard a man make this anology and it completely changed my mind on this issue. I am not personally offended by statues or building names, but i can't just poo-poo away someone else feeling tormented by confederate tributes
That's the most ignorant thing I've read on this site.

There is no one alive who suffered under slavery, no one, they're all dead. And for years people have been going to this particular high school with no issues at all until some liberal moron raises a stink and I for one am really tired of it.

Nope you'r analogy is worthless. Just as worthless as those who act all butt hurt about statues of Confederate Soldiers.
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:13 PM   #64
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Folks,

The butthurt generation has hit the thriving metropolis of Tyler. An outsider that is not from Tyler, never attended the high school, never taught at the school, does not have kids that attend the high school started opposition to our high school name of Robert E. Lee. We all know who REL was, so I won't go into a history lesson.


Keep in mind that the other high school is named John Tyler High School, same person that the city of Tyler is named for.


Those wanting to change REL say it is because he was for slavery and was a Confederate. They won't swallow the fact that John Tyler also owned slaves. (hippocracy at it's finest).

REL was originally referred to as the Rebels. In 1968, it was changed to the Red Raiders. Now it's still named Robert E. Lee and says so on the sign but is now referred to as "Tyler Lee".

I (among the majority) are for NOT changing the name. It is part of our history. Robert E. Lee High School is part of MY history, class of '92

Both high school are about to undergo complete renovations. The cost of changing the name was not included in the budget. The estimated cost of changing BOTH names would be 1.8-2.1 Million dollars. Now, wouldn't that money better go to security at both schools?

I have called and emailed all school board members voicing my opinion on this. It was taken off the previous school board meeting agenda but was recently added to the upcoming agenda due to pressure from the "outsider" and a school board member's spouse.


Regardless of the name of the school, how would you feel if your high school were to be renamed? Would you feel that a part of your history was taken from you?



https://www.change.org/p/save-our-name-robert-e-lee
I agree it should not be changed. But no i would not feel part of my history has changed. Things change.
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:20 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Landrover View Post
No dog in the fight but I did live in Tyler for about 3 years back in the 90's. I know both schools pretty well. JT on the North side and REL on the loop! But YES, my school name was changed while I was in school. Not because of slave holders but because one bigger school was built. The community fought over which school name to keep. Neither won!!! Brand new school with a new name …………….West St. John Rams!!! Still winning STATE titles and sending kids to universities all over the country.....business a usual.
Moral: Some fights really don't matter if the kids are getting educated!
Of course it matters. Once we start giving in to these bull hockey demands then we are really done for.
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:21 PM   #66
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This is really bad that these groups with money use the laws to twist things around and screwed up our way of life and they love it. Because they can. When will our judicial system wake up and send them all to hell. I do not agree wit the name changing of any schools because they were Confederate soldiers. This is our history, heritage and the American way. This has to stop, these are the same folks that took away prayer from schools, can't say merry Christmas at work, etc.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:35 PM   #67
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The Families are very much alive and well ...
Sure they are but they haven't faced any atrocities that their ancestors faced. That's like saying well I'm Irish so everyone that treated me like #*~> in the late 19th century owes me so let's go out there erase history! People are too sensitive to these things that never directly effected them. Oh and btw, there was plenty of racism in the north and in the union ranks!
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:14 AM   #68
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How about Mount Rushmore? Are they gonna stick some dynamite in Thomas Jefferson's nose just because he snuck off to the stable with his women slaves after his wife went to sleep? Nobody can say he didn't love his. That doesn't change the fact that he had them.

"Thomas,where are all of these children coming from? We only have women slaves."

I'm sure a conversation something similar to that happened in the Jefferson household at some point. Had to of....years later descendents of the Jefferson family moved on up to the East side. To a deluxe apartment in the sky. They finally got a piece of the pie. True story. Look it up.

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Old 06-15-2018, 05:26 AM   #69
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We screwed up way back, "we should have picked our on cotton".
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:45 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landrover View Post
No dog in the fight but I did live in Tyler for about 3 years back in the 90's. I know both schools pretty well. JT on the North side and REL on the loop! But YES, my school name was changed while I was in school. Not because of slave holders but because one bigger school was built. The community fought over which school name to keep. Neither won!!! Brand new school with a new name …………….West St. John Rams!!! Still winning STATE titles and sending kids to universities all over the country.....business a usual.
Moral: Some fights really don't matter if the kids are getting educated!
Your so funny, I bet they could change names to Martin Luther King and you would be happy, I see what you always do, double tongue.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:41 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by SwampRabbit View Post
Personally, no. I could care less about the name of my high school. I don't much live in the past when it comes to stuff like that. Sure I have some good memories of High School...

"All I'm saying is that if I ever start referring to these as the best years of my life - remind me to kill myself." - Randall 'Pink' Floyd

That being said, I hate it when people change stuff for contrived reasons.
This is not about high school memories or your favorite pot smoking movie. It is about erasing history. Get your head out of the sand.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:49 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by jer_james View Post
Those are individuals - they were not a representation of the entire group of Union forces.
Less than 1% of confederates owned slaves. Why do you associate confederacy with slavery. They were not a representation of the entire group of Confederate forces.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:58 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by bermise View Post
This is not about high school memories or your favorite pot smoking movie. It is about erasing history. Get your head out of the sand.
For the record... I read his entire post and specifically answered the question he asked... go back and actually read the question.

And if you read my full response... I addressed the overreaching question as well.

So... lighten up.



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Old 06-15-2018, 07:19 AM   #74
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This is not about high school memories or your favorite pot smoking movie. It is about erasing history. Get your head out of the sand.
Once agaim, how does chMging a school name erase history??? Rewriting hidtory books erases history, not a high school name change. I guarantee you that the same folks that are for the name change abdolutely still want schools to teach about slavery and the confederacy. Otherwise they wouldn’t have anything to be mad about anymore.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:22 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by MetalMan2004 View Post
Once agaim, how does chMging a school name erase history??? Rewriting hidtory books erases history, not a high school name change. I guarantee you that the same folks that are for the name change abdolutely still want schools to teach about slavery and the confederacy. Otherwise they wouldn’t have anything to be mad about anymore.
What they teach is no longer accurate and the removal of historical names and symbols reflects that.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:27 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Rakkasan2187 View Post
Of course it matters. Once we start giving in to these bull hockey demands then we are really done for.
We, the people, started "giving in" some time ago... We are on a down hill slide now... It will take action that obviously we(The People)aren't willing to do to stop this ridiculous nonsense.. They are playing the game and winning while we are setting on the side lines watching..

That's just the truth..
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:34 AM   #77
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Your so funny, I bet they could change names to Martin Luther King and you would be happy, I see what you always do, double tongue.
Huh, u sure you read my benign statement? Funny?
Hum, guess that 8th grade reading comprehension was taken out of schools also!

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Old 06-15-2018, 07:38 AM   #78
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What they teach is no longer accurate and the removal of historical names and symbols reflects that.
What they taught has never been accurate : See Christopher Columbus
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:40 AM   #79
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Sure they are but they haven't faced any atrocities that their ancestors faced. That's like saying well I'm Irish so everyone that treated me like #*~> in the late 19th century owes me so let's go out there erase history! People are too sensitive to these things that never directly effected them. Oh and btw, there was plenty of racism in the north and in the union ranks!
So why do they propose tax breaks for rich people? I believe they call it trickle down economics?

It's a two edged sword. People are too sensitive and want to take it down.

People are too sensitive and throw temper tantrums when they are taken down.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:45 AM   #80
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Less than 1% of confederates owned slaves. Why do you associate confederacy with slavery. They were not a representation of the entire group of Confederate forces.
In the official declaration of the causes of their secession in December 1860, South Carolina’s delegates cited “an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery.” According to them, the Northern interference with the return of fugitive slaves was violating their constitutional obligations; they also complained that some states in New England tolerated abolitionist societies and allowed black men to vote.

This could be wrong ... And maybe less than 1% of the Army itself owned slaves, but that's not representation of the entire population of the South.
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:41 AM   #81
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So why do they propose tax breaks for rich people? I believe they call it trickle down economics?

It's a two edged sword. People are too sensitive and want to take it down.

People are too sensitive and throw temper tantrums when they are taken down.
I can guarantee you, with almost 100% certainty, that if the people who are demanding the statues be taken down or the names to be changed, were told they had to pay for them to be removed/changed, this would not be an issue at all because it would go away quickly.
This is supposed to be a majority rules society - when the squeaky minority gets their way because its no longer PC to tell them to shut up or put it to a vote with the fear of one of them yelling the R word...thats when this society ceases to function efficiently, and little things like education, history, and progress get hindered.
Has nothing to do with sensitivity and everything to do with who can scream the loudest.
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:49 AM   #82
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I can guarantee you, with almost 100% certainty, that if the people who are demanding the statues be taken down or the names to be changed, were told they had to pay for them to be removed/changed, this would not be an issue at all because it would go away quickly.
This is supposed to be a majority rules society - when the squeaky minority gets their way because its no longer PC to tell them to shut up or put it to a vote with the fear of one of them yelling the R word...thats when this society ceases to function efficiently, and little things like education, history, and progress get hindered.
Has nothing to do with sensitivity and everything to do with who can scream the loudest.
When the Man whom the statue depicts says there shouldn't be statues, then I tend to lean in the direction.

You can call it PC or whatever you want to, but if you want to honor the Man, maybe you should listen to his wishes on the subject.
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:54 AM   #83
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When the Man whom the statue depicts says there shouldn't be statues, then I tend to lean in the direction.

You can call it PC or whatever you want to, but if you want to honor the Man, maybe you should listen to his wishes on the subject.
you take one quote - possibly out of context- from one man and try to apply it to a whole issue concerning a great number of men/statues/plaques/monuments ?
thats being a bit obtuse on the subject even for the sake of playing devils advocate
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Old 06-15-2018, 09:00 AM   #84
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In order to be offended by a historical statue, or the name of a school, requires that you be so unbelievably stupid that you should be culled from this planet immediately…


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Old 06-15-2018, 09:01 AM   #85
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That is too bad to hear. I also graduated from REL highschool and was wondering when this discussion was going to come up.
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Old 06-15-2018, 09:08 AM   #86
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This is the dumbest stuff ever. People need to cut the sensitive BS in this country. I hate that even if 99% of people are fine with something, they'll still make changes bc of that 1% that has an issue. The majority should not have to be effected bc a tiny percentage has an issue with something. This is called causing issues where no issues are present.
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Old 06-15-2018, 09:53 AM   #87
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In the official declaration of the causes of their secession in December 1860, South Carolina’s delegates cited “an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery.” According to them, the Northern interference with the return of fugitive slaves was violating their constitutional obligations; they also complained that some states in New England tolerated abolitionist societies and allowed black men to vote.

This could be wrong ... And maybe less than 1% of the Army itself owned slaves, but that's not representation of the entire population of the South.
So your answer to the question on post #46 is, yes, the Democratic Party should be abolished?
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:44 AM   #88
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I’m offended that some of you guys shoot a bow brand that’s not the same as I shoot
We live in a society today where anything goes and just about anything can offend someone but one individual can be offended and we have to change something. I agree where does it stop. We have people of certain culture that live in America that will not eat pork. They could stand up for their belief and try and stop any & all grocery stores & restraunts from selling it because it’s offensive to them..right?
To the OP...I live just outside of Tyler by the way so we are hearing all about this
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:14 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bermise View Post
This is not about high school memories or your favorite pot smoking movie. It is about erasing history. Get your head out of the sand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampRabbit View Post
For the record... I read his entire post and specifically answered the question he asked... go back and actually read the question.

And if you read my full response... I addressed the overreaching question as well.

So... lighten up.



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And for the record, the question that was asked was the following:

Regardless of the name of the school, how would you feel if your high school were to be renamed? Would you feel that a part of your history was taken from you?



They could go back and rename C.E. Ellison High School to Kayne West High School and I could literally care less. I know what school I went to and whatever they want to call it now means absolutely nothing to me. It wouldn't take any history away from me at all.
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:42 AM   #90
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you take one quote - possibly out of context- from one man and try to apply it to a whole issue concerning a great number of men/statues/plaques/monuments ?
thats being a bit obtuse on the subject even for the sake of playing devils advocate
I only took one quote to post - there are more.

Telling people not to be offended, while getting offended at the same time when the discussion comes to making a change seems a little hypocritical.
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:42 AM   #91
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And for the record, the question that was asked was the following:

Regardless of the name of the school, how would you feel if your high school were to be renamed? Would you feel that a part of your history was taken from you?



They could go back and rename C.E. Ellison High School to Kayne West High School and I could literally care less. I know what school I went to and whatever they want to call it now means absolutely nothing to me. It wouldn't take any history away from me at all.
I agree completely
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:51 AM   #92
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I only took one quote to post - there are more.

Telling people not to be offended, while getting offended at the same time when the discussion comes to making a change seems a little hypocritical.
I tell you what, if you didn't have a picture of your feet in your avatar, I'd swear you didn't have any. I mean, you don't seem to stand for anything........other than, "au contraire". Those are your feet, right? Really weird!
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:02 PM   #93
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I tell you what, if you didn't have a picture of your feet in your avatar, I'd swear you didn't have any. I mean, you don't seem to stand for anything........other than, "au contraire". Those are your feet, right? Really weird!
I don't like to be told what I'm doing means something it doesn't.

I stand for folks to be able to believe differently than I do, without being personally attacked for it.

I stand for my Family and Friends when they need me to do what I need to do in order to make them smile and be happy. When they stop smiling and being happy, I try and fix it.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:06 PM   #94
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I don't like to be told what I'm doing means something it doesn't.

I stand for folks to be able to believe differently than I do, without being personally attacked for it.

I stand for my Family and Friends when they need me to do what I need to do in order to make them smile and be happy. When they stop smiling and being happy, I try and fix it.
I still think the avatar would be more appropriate if you were wearing flip flops.

Speaking of, you still haven't answered that question in post #46.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:04 PM   #95
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I still think the avatar would be more appropriate if you were wearing flip flops.

Speaking of, you still haven't answered that question in post #46.
Id be perfectly happy for them to take down the entire Democratic party.

I dont believe they have any official documents referencing their ties to slavery, but we can get rid of them anyways for their founding policies that are constantly glanced over today.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:24 PM   #96
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Easy to spot the folks eat up with the white guilt.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:42 PM   #97
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If you dont want to see a difference, then that's up to you.

Individual acts as opposed to an entire system representation of oppression are different to most.
You do realize that the South fought for State's rights, don't you? They didn't start a war over slavery, that's how the North spun it. There were slaves in Northern states before and during the war.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:49 PM   #98
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And maybe less than 1% of the Army itself owned slaves, but that's not representation of the entire population of the South.
Yea, I'm pretty sure that it is. The 1%(wealthy) owned slaves. The majority picked their own cotton on their 40 acres they homesteaded.
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:02 PM   #99
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All this person wants is to be able to thump his chest in front of his friends and say "I was the one that got that changed"...The left wing nut jobs have got to quit projecting today's ethics, morals, and laws on to things that happened 100, 200, 300 years ago when what they are protesting about now was legal. Next time a black person wants to throw slavery reparations in your face just bring up the fact that it was generally one African tribe that captured members of other African tribes and sold them to the white slave traders. And let them go protest slavery in other countries where it is still going on.
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:26 PM   #100
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The fact is that Human history/existence is a brutal, bloody, painful thing. If you actually took a look back in history in an attempt to remove anything related to atrocities or that may offend some group of people, you would literally be left with nothing.

This is why the question "where does it stop" is so valid here.


Another fact is that history has been so twisted it's not even accurate anymore.
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