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Old 10-15-2017, 02:26 PM   #1
SwampRanger
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Default Age debate East Texas...

There's about 10 of us arguing about the age of this buck. I know the picture isn't the best and he's walking but none of us are pros. What's GS say?
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:27 PM   #2
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I say I can't see any photos.


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Old 10-15-2017, 02:28 PM   #3
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:31 PM   #4
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3.5 or 4, you said East Texas, that's is old as he's gonna get unless high fenced, lol.

"The history of the bow and arrow is the history of mankind."
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:33 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by bjsexpress View Post
3.5 or 4, you said East Texas, that's is old as he's gonna get unless high fenced, lol.

"The history of the bow and arrow is the history of mankind."
I agree but all our deer are very fat and healthy this year...we have a couple gouts saying he's very old and declining...but those members drink Sissy Beer
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:34 PM   #6
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I agree but all our deer are very fat and healthy this year...we have a couple gouts saying he's very old and declining...but those members drink Sissy Beer
there's no decline to me. That looks like a prime up and comer

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Old 10-15-2017, 02:40 PM   #7
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I’d feel real comfortable with 3.5. Don’t see anything over
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:40 PM   #8
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:42 PM   #9
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We've had a really great year after a terrible year last year. This guy was 7.5 according to a biologist and we had never seen him before. Not bad for Hardin County.
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:43 PM   #10
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We are seeing tons of bucks. Most are 2.5-3.5 but have a few that we are debating.
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Old 10-15-2017, 05:35 PM   #11
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Bump
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Old 10-15-2017, 05:57 PM   #12
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He ainít older than 4.5....
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Old 10-15-2017, 06:42 PM   #13
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He ainít older than 4.5....


Agreed!
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Old 10-15-2017, 06:47 PM   #14
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There was a 200# 10 pt killed on our lease in Angelina County last week. And, he was only 3.5 yo.

Did not meet club minimum of 4.5.

Hard to judge that 3.5-4.5 gap.
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Old 10-15-2017, 07:06 PM   #15
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Pointy nose and no brisket he's 4 or younger

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Old 10-15-2017, 07:26 PM   #16
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trying to age a deer with one picture like that is useless - you need video of him to see him moving in real life to determine age -
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:38 PM   #17
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/\ not true. You need more practice, waaaay more.
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:39 PM   #18
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Young
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:51 PM   #19
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No telling..looks like he has a big abscess high & behind his shoulder, or am I just seeing things?
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:56 PM   #20
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I say he is old ,drawn in sides rump is dropped nose rolled. Biologist is right at 7.5
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:58 PM   #21
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There's about 10 of us arguing about the age of this buck. I know the picture isn't the best and he's walking but none of us are pros. What's GS say?
The thing about SETx deer is they never look their age. 4 maybe. He looks a little thin. Maybe 3. Gotta thick neck, slim body...indications of a youngster.

On the flip side, I see older buck characteristics, gant side, ribs showing, thick neck, tattered ears. I will stay with 4, but wouldnt be surprised if he was 7-10

SR, the thing about SETx deer, they got it good. LOTS of food at eye level, if they didnt like corn or acorns they would never get any grit in their mouth. The broken droptine was aged at 7.5, but thats as old as you can age them with that WTx system the biologist use. Very nice buck, both of them

Photographic history is the only way to really to know how old they are, unless you send a tooth to A&M

Last edited by lovemylegacy; 10-15-2017 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 10-15-2017, 09:03 PM   #22
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Guessing buck ages is just that....guessing. Especially off one picture that's not the best pose for aging. Having said that, I'm in the 4.5 max camp.
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Old 10-15-2017, 09:04 PM   #23
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Baby
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Old 10-15-2017, 09:07 PM   #24
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I say he is old ,drawn in sides rump is dropped nose rolled. Biologist is right at 7.5
Biologist aged the dead drop tine buck at 7.5

The buck walking looks young. 3.5
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:09 PM   #25
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3.5
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:11 PM   #26
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No telling..looks like he has a big abscess high & behind his shoulder, or am I just seeing things?
I didn't notice that earlier but we think this buck was shot with a crossbow last year near this exact spot. We hunted it for three days, found very little blood, and finally gave up after no buzzards were ever spotted. Good eye!
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:13 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Antlers86 View Post
Biologist aged the dead drop tine buck at 7.5

The buck walking looks young. 3.5
This is correct sorry if that other pic was confusing
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:17 PM   #28
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trying to age a deer with one picture like that is useless - you need video of him to see him moving in real life to determine age -
X2!
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:43 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by SwampRanger View Post
I didn't notice that earlier but we think this buck was shot with a crossbow last year near this exact spot. We hunted it for three days, found very little blood, and finally gave up after no buzzards were ever spotted. Good eye!


Go off last year's pics then. Those will probably be more telling than this year's.
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:43 PM   #30
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4.5 max
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:55 PM   #31
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6+
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Old 10-16-2017, 05:46 AM   #32
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/\ not true. You need more practice, waaaay more.
you are right - I know nothing about aging deer so I will start practicing immediately
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Old 10-16-2017, 06:08 AM   #33
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There was a 200# 10 pt killed on our lease in Angelina County last week. And, he was only 3.5 yo.

Did not meet club minimum of 4.5.

Hard to judge that 3.5-4.5 gap.


They aged him on tooth wear?


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Old 10-16-2017, 06:13 AM   #34
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They aged him on tooth wear?


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Yes. Biologist and one of the scorers from our lease.

I have one showing up regularly in one of my areas that any other lease or year I would take him. He came within twenty yards of me Saturday chasing does. Just too close to call on our lease.

If he does not measure up I lose my cull tag and pay $250. Besides, I would rather be safe and hope he makes it to next season. It is nice knowing some leases in East Tx want to let them grow. You just have to hope he does not show up at a neighbor's property.

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Old 10-16-2017, 10:21 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Tshelly View Post
They aged him on tooth wear?


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayouboy View Post
Yes. Biologist and one of the scorers from our lease.

I have one showing up regularly in one of my areas that any other lease or year I would take him. He came within twenty yards of me Saturday chasing does. Just too close to call on our lease.

If he does not measure up I lose my cull tag and pay $250. Besides, I would rather be safe and hope he makes it to next season. It is nice knowing some leases in East Tx want to let them grow. You just have to hope he does not show up at a neighbor's property.
Man they would be a tough one for me to swallow but I guess you know the rules when you sign up. The tooth deal just isn't accurate enough for me to risk fines and loss of tags over.
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Old 10-16-2017, 10:29 AM   #36
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Man they would be a tough one for me to swallow but I guess you know the rules when you sign up. The tooth deal just isn't accurate enough for me to risk fines and loss of tags over.


Yup! Exactly. I'd pull his front tooth and send it off to be cut for $25 then pay my fine from there if I was wrong. I understand and am all for accountability and even fines.... but not off tooth wear, it's just too inconsistent


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Old 10-16-2017, 10:32 AM   #37
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Who and where do you send a tooth off to? And, is it a front or rear tooth? Maybe better to send one side of the bottom jawbone?
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:02 AM   #38
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I'd say he's post-mature. But knowing that he took an arrow thru the backstraps and kept walking I might be inclined to say that his older look could be attributed to the injury.

Just shoot him and let's find out
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:09 AM   #39
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Everyone who says there are no deer or no big deer in East Texas is either just not a good hunter, lazy, or both. If you get out in the woods and put in the time to scout and get off the beaten trail, you will see deer. If your patient and know what your doing you can not only see a lot of deer, but you may get a giant.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:24 AM   #40
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Tough call, could easily be one of those hard to judge post mature deer. My first impression when I saw the pic was post mature. I've hunted and managed deer in Sour Lake for years so I have a lot of experience looking at these Hardin County bucks. When I'm not sure on one I start looking for the old battle scars. Torn up ears, neck and face scars. Hard to get to 7+ without the scars.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:38 AM   #41
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Who and where do you send a tooth off to? And, is it a front or rear tooth? Maybe better to send one side of the bottom jawbone?
best place is a lab in Burnet - I forget the name but google it - just send the front lower tooth
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:45 AM   #42
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Who and where do you send a tooth off to? And, is it a front or rear tooth? Maybe better to send one side of the bottom jawbone?

http://www.deerage.com

Results in my experience are at about 50% when aging on tooth wear alone, the other 50% the tooth wear was wrong. We've done about 20 deer so far in the last few years. Oldest buck was 10.5, oldest doe so far has been 13.5



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Old 10-16-2017, 12:00 PM   #43
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3-4, hard to tell with injury.
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:05 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Tshelly View Post
http://www.deerage.com

Results in my experience are at about 50% when aging on tooth wear alone, the other 50% the tooth wear was wrong. We've done about 20 deer so far in the last few years. Oldest buck was 10.5, oldest doe so far has been 13.5



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posted it here before but there was a study done with deer of known ages and 5 or 6 very experienced biologist aged them by tooth wear - results of the aging with two years of the actual ages was what you mentioned - 50 percent range.

Also read where the lab testing results were quite a bit higher - not perfect but much better than tooth wear
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:07 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKK View Post
posted it here before but there was a study done with deer of known ages and 5 or 6 very experienced biologist aged them by tooth wear - results of the aging with two years of the actual ages was what you mentioned - 50 percent range.



Also read where the lab testing results were quite a bit higher - not perfect but much better than tooth wear


I agree with what you said. I think cutting the teeth it's 85-90%, I know they say it somewhere on that website.


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Old 10-16-2017, 01:18 PM   #46
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There was a 200# 10 pt killed on our lease in Angelina County last week. And, he was only 3.5 yo.

Did not meet club minimum of 4.5.

Hard to judge that 3.5-4.5 gap.
That sucks. What happened to the member who shot him?
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:54 PM   #47
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3.5 or 4.5 no older
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:05 PM   #48
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Quote:
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I agree with what you said. I think cutting the teeth it's 85-90%, I know they say it somewhere on that website.


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Mickey Hellickson and others did a study a few years ago that actually showed the accuracy of even the cementum annuli technique is not very accurate. Yes, better than the tooth replacement wear technique, but nowhere close to 85-90%. Relying on these aging techniques to set fines on hunters is a bad idea, IMO.

The overall accuracy rate they found for the cementum annuli technique was only 61%.

The split on their accuracy results was as follows:
Young (2.5-3.5) = 68%
Middle-Aged (4.5-5.5) = 53%
Mature (6.5-8.5) = 56%

Ideally, without having the deer tagged at birth, the best way to try to determine the age would probably be a combination of tooth wear, cementum annuli testing, and a historical photo record of a given deer (again IMO).
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:07 PM   #49
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That sucks. What happened to the member who shot him?
Nothing. It was an honest mistake. We all make them at some point in our life. He will pay his $250 and forfeit his cull buck tag for this year. It won't be the first or last time to happen. Most people would have taken that deer. It was a beauty. Especially for East Tx.

There are some big bodied deer on this lease. Pregnant does from South Texas were turned loose on the place a few years back and it appears their genes have spread. You can't hardly go by body size only. I killed one of the biggest does I have ever taken this past Saturday.
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:08 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayouboy View Post
There was a 200# 10 pt killed on our lease in Angelina County last week. And, he was only 3.5 yo.

Did not meet club minimum of 4.5.

Hard to judge that 3.5-4.5 gap.
For reasons I just posted, I'd be hard-pressed to believe it was a 200# 3yo. I realize that's not impossible, but given the inaccuracy of their methods it seems more likely that it was probably at least 4yo if not 5.
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