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Old 02-01-2018, 08:36 PM   #51
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You can't. You don't find things like that until you look for it. The harder you look for it the more likely you are to find it. Unlike EHD. You find them dead all over the place when it hits.
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Old 02-01-2018, 09:15 PM   #52
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Yeah, it was found in Colorado in 1967. It wasn't found in Texas, in WILD mule deer, until 2011. Wasn't found in a deer pen in Texas until 2015. Maybe you experts can explain how a mule deer in far west Texas spread CWD to a pen deer near Tarpley over a 4 year time period??


You said it had been in the wild longer than it had been in pens. Then you referenced a 1967 case...that was in a pen. Whereís the ďwildĒ case that predates that? I canít find one before Ď81. Iím asking because Iím interested.

I never claimed to be an expert. Nor did I blame a west Texas mule deer for infecting a pen deer in Tarpley.

There are currently 33 positives in TX. 32 of which are contributed to pens or pen releases. One is free range...in Bandera county. Whereís Tarpley again?


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Old 02-01-2018, 09:22 PM   #53
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DACA is for the children!!!

save the children!!

whoops, I mean, we must protect our deer from CWD! no matter what it takes!

kind of odd how the focus is on high fence breeding operations where deer are controlled, and not on the millions of acres of low fence where deer can roam where ever they choose. haven't figured that one out yet.

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Old 02-02-2018, 12:37 AM   #54
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Itís a prion, so itís probably been on the planet for longer than can be imagined. Like any disease it is constantly migrating due to a variety of factors. Prions are very different than viruses in how they adapt and spread. Dr Deer had done a fair amount of talking about this and basically says the panicked overreaction is 100x worse than the disease itself. I think contraction to death is like 3 years in some cases. All in all common sense goes a long ways, and we all know how short of supply that is in.
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:55 AM   #55
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Itís a prion, so itís probably been on the planet for longer than can be imagined. Like any disease it is constantly migrating due to a variety of factors. Prions are very different than viruses in how they adapt and spread. Dr Deer had done a fair amount of talking about this and basically says the panicked overreaction is 100x worse than the disease itself. I think contraction to death is like 3 years in some cases. All in all common sense goes a long ways, and we all know how short of supply that is in.
I was listening to Grant Woods talking about the difference between CWD and EHD and in the discussion he mentioned Prion. I had never heard of that before, I thought all along it was a virus.

Maybe you or someone here can state what is the difference. Just for discussion sake.
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Old 02-02-2018, 01:06 AM   #56
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Iíll try to make this light reading. Proteins are amino acid chains and they fold in a specific ways to form very specific shapes/structures. A prion is an ďinfectiveĒ protein that is folded incorrectly. When it bumps into certain other proteins it causes them to unfold also. Those unfolded proteins then do the same. As they are proteins they have no DNA or RNA aka genetic code. Theyíre dead simple, pun intended. But due to their mechanism they donít adapt. A virus adapts in some cases very fast. A good virus is highly infective but doesnít kill its host. Ebola is a good example. Early on you would rather be nuked that catch it, but it quickly (decades) gotten substantially less lethal. Prions donít really have that route as they donít have genetic material to mingle with other viruses or just DNA. They are mother natureís supreme chain reaction.

If someone gets super technical they can complain about my description above, but Iím trying to make it understandable. Granted my molecular and cellular biology degree gets older with every passing day
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:22 AM   #57
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You said it had been in the wild longer than it had been in pens. Then you referenced a 1967 case...that was in a pen. Whereís the ďwildĒ case that predates that? I canít find one before Ď81. Iím asking because Iím interested.

I never claimed to be an expert. Nor did I blame a west Texas mule deer for infecting a pen deer in Tarpley.

There are currently 33 positives in TX. 32 of which are contributed to pens or pen releases. One is free range...in Bandera county. Whereís Tarpley again?


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anyone who thinks that CWD has been around for thousands of years needs to read up on the Foothills Wildlife Research Station and the studies done there on scabbie infected sheep and the studies done in the same pens on mule deer fawns in the mid 60's. In the early years of CWD in the 70's and 80's every instance of CWD found in the US could be backtraced to Ft Collins and the research station.
Has anyone looked at the possibility that placing mule deer fawns in the infected sheep scrapie pen was intentional to force the cross over to Cervids (Deer, elk, etc.) So it could be used to control Cervids populations in our national parks, and not have to use hunters? They went to a lot more trouble and expense to bring in the Canadian wolves.
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:35 AM   #58
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Itís a prion, so itís probably been on the planet for longer than can be imagined. Like any disease it is constantly migrating due to a variety of factors. Prions are very different than viruses in how they adapt and spread. Dr Deer had done a fair amount of talking about this and basically says the panicked overreaction is 100x worse than the disease itself. I think contraction to death is like 3 years in some cases. All in all common sense goes a long ways, and we all know how short of supply that is in.


I hope Kroll is right. I would like to ask him how he could preach age structure for so many years, then be flippant about a communicable disease that kills everything that gets it within 2-3 years. I appreciate and donít discredit his knowledge of deer, but i donít know that anyone has enough CWD research to roll their eyes at those who worry.


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Old 02-02-2018, 08:06 PM   #59
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The sky is not falling.
I live and hunt in a CWD endemic area. Our herds are doing fine. Not one person has ever been diagnosed with CWD, variant CJD is the human form, in our state. We manage a ranch that literally borders the WG&F facility where it was brought to study in the 60's. Yes elk and deer are affected , not one domestic animal, cattle etc has ever been diagnosed with CWD. The only way that CWD was infected in primates was through direct injection into their brain. We have lived with it for years, yes you will see some infected animals, but my thought is it has been around forever just lately recognized and studied. I have no doubt we have consumed CWD meat but as of yet no issues. Are area is ground zero for Wyoming, where it was brought to study and has been found to be endemic to our herds. Elk and deer numbers are not tanking, elk are at all time highs right now for population numbers.
Would I eat a noticeably sick animal , no way, but I also don't worry about eating any other animal I harvest.
We have had it for years living in our environment, no- ZERO- human cases of CWD or variant CJD.
If you want to feed brain or spinal matter to your cattle then yes you may need to worry, but to date the research showing a cross over via just eating CWD infected animals does not exist. The primate study has its flaws, look it up and read it.
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Yes they are very different. Elk and mule deer use wintering areas that congregate deer and elk. Do your whitetails yard up for winter, probably not. Elk will winter in very large herds of thousands of animals. Don't you think that would be a CWD bomb waiting to happen. Our wintering areas are historically used every year for generations of herds, no massive die off yet due to CWD. Our largest loss of animals is usually due to harsh winter conditions and animals not having access to forage due to hard crusted snow. Mule deer have used the same wintering areas for generations also, no massive die off due to CWD.
What is the different with whitetail deer, the high fence ? Any time animals are congregated due to natural or unnatural circumstances there will be disease and population issues. Texas P&W is just starting to study this disease ,Wyoming has been studying it for decades. Colorado tried the kill every deer in an CWD area, it makes no difference, CWD prions stay in the environment.
Just think , maybe it's been here all along and just now recognized. Where are all the human positives?
Thank you for your first hand experience and real life knowledge and input.
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Old 08-09-2018, 04:37 PM   #60
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Good podcast about CWD Joe Rogan just did with the same guys from the meateater podcast
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Old 08-09-2018, 04:44 PM   #61
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.

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Old 08-09-2018, 04:59 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Loneaggie View Post
Iíll try to make this light reading. Proteins are amino acid chains and they fold in a specific ways to form very specific shapes/structures. A prion is an ďinfectiveĒ protein that is folded incorrectly. When it bumps into certain other proteins it causes them to unfold also. Those unfolded proteins then do the same. As they are proteins they have no DNA or RNA aka genetic code. Theyíre dead simple, pun intended. But due to their mechanism they donít adapt. A virus adapts in some cases very fast. A good virus is highly infective but doesnít kill its host. Ebola is a good example. Early on you would rather be nuked that catch it, but it quickly (decades) gotten substantially less lethal. Prions donít really have that route as they donít have genetic material to mingle with other viruses or just DNA. They are mother natureís supreme chain reaction.

If someone gets super technical they can complain about my description above, but Iím trying to make it understandable. Granted my molecular and cellular biology degree gets older with every passing day
Thanks. I've never heard of a prion before.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:31 PM   #63
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.
Medina co?
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:38 PM   #64
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Good podcast about CWD Joe Rogan just did with the same guys from the meateater podcast
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Good podcast, I listened to that today. Alarming when they said it had a possibility of jumping over to humans.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:05 PM   #65
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More of the same... throw scary what ifs around till someone thinks its based on some scientific fact ...typical of those that watch zombie movies as preparation videos.
Biologist was interesting but tended to play to rogan ..''it has never happened......but then again it hasnt been proven it couldnt."
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:13 PM   #66
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How does the "Time Bomb for Agriculture" fit in?
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:19 PM   #67
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I really think all you guys hunting in a CWD infected areas should stop hunting. I'm pretty sure it's been around for a very long time and now people are starting to talk about it like its some kind of new thing.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:24 PM   #68
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Thank the Cervid industry gents!
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:32 PM   #69
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How does the "Time Bomb for Agriculture" fit in?
Did you not catch the part about shed prions chemically attach themselves to plants and prions in the soil (that seem to viable from anywhere from 5 to 40 years) can be drawn up into growing plants/crops.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:39 PM   #70
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Did you not catch the part about shed prions chemically attach themselves to plants and prions in the soil (that seem to viable from anywhere from 5 to 40 years) can be drawn up into growing plants/crops.
Nope, I Haven't heard about corn, wheat, oats, or soybean markets being effected by CWD prions.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:48 PM   #71
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Missouri is a CWD watch zone, feeders, mineral sites, were banned by the state
EHD kills thousands more deer in Missouri. Let's find a way to deal with that. CWD doesn't move me at all.

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Old 08-09-2018, 10:55 PM   #72
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EHD kills thousands more deer in Missouri. Let's find a way to deal with that. CWD doesn't move me at all.

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Watch the podcast?, they address that specific point of view.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:57 PM   #73
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Did you not catch the part about shed prions chemically attach themselves to plants and prions in the soil (that seem to viable from anywhere from 5 to 40 years) can be drawn up into growing plants/crops.

He said they got plants to draw it up from the soil while growing them in what he called "a slurry of prions".

That is important info that can't be left out. It is like saying when got a monkey to contract it, but leaving out the part about injecting it directly to it's brain. <I'm not saying this happened, just using it as an example,
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:02 PM   #74
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He said they got plants to draw it up from the soil while growing them in what he called "a slurry of prions".

That is important info that can't be left out. < It is like saying when got a monkey to contract it, but leaving out the part about injecting it directly to it's brain. I'm not saying this happened, just using it as an example,
FYI that did happen http://sportingclassicsdaily.com/humans-cwd-deer/

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Old 08-09-2018, 11:06 PM   #75
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I thought it did but didn't want to look it up and didn't want to spread misinformation.
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:07 PM   #76
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These research primates also got it from eating CWD positive venison, is it likely to transmit to humans, no but its possible. Do you take the chance, I would have to lean towards no for me and definite no to feeding it to my family.
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:21 PM   #77
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I tend to have to side with dr Kroll. this disease is supposed to be super contagious yet it has never wiped out a population and has never been found in large numbers. EHD on the other hand can kill large percentages of deer in small areas and does.
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:28 PM   #78
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Uhm, if you could listen to all 2+ hours of that you have way too much time on your hands.

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Old 08-09-2018, 11:31 PM   #79
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I tend to have to side with dr Kroll. this disease is supposed to be super contagious yet it has never wiped out a population and has never been found in large numbers. EHD on the other hand can kill large percentages of deer in small areas and does.
Again this is addressed in the podcast using EHD as a diversion to the bigger disease problem with CWD. Kroll has seemed to support regulations based on political motivation rather than science, the antler restrictions are a good example. I wonder if Kroll and Richards when he was with tpwd butted heads?

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Old 08-10-2018, 01:28 AM   #80
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EHD kills thousands more deer in Missouri. Let's find a way to deal with that. CWD doesn't move me at all.
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I tend to have to side with dr Kroll. this disease is supposed to be super contagious yet it has never wiped out a population and has never been found in large numbers. EHD on the other hand can kill large percentages of deer in small areas and does.

There is inevitably an EHD reference or ten in every CWD thread. EHD and CWD couldn't be more different. They are thoroughly different situations with distinctly different problems and risks. The fact that EHD is bad, does not somehow negate the necessity of dealing with CWD. And while EHD does have greater short term mortality, in the long run it is much less of a concern than CWD. EHD is something that is simply new to northern areas and deer haven't established immunity like their southern relatives yet. Eventually they will, populations will re-establish, and it will be a non issue. CWD on the other hand, is like a very slow moving glacier, and when the full effects finally settle in, has the potential to truly devastate for a long time. Evolution will eventually deal with CWD as well, but it will be a longer ordeal. And CWD has some much greater concerns attached to the issue than just deer numbers. This is the first time the world has been aware of a prion disease with this degree of virulence (ease of infection) with this number of species. And it has exhibited some confusing and unusual characteristics, even for a prion. Unlike Mad Cow Disease, Creutzfelt Jakob disease, and Kuru, it has demonstrated the ability to negotiate vastly different species barriers with the right sequence of hosts. One strain, H95+, seems to be particularly good at that . . .

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Yes elk and deer are affected , not one domestic animal, cattle etc has ever been diagnosed with CWD. The only way that CWD was infected in primates was through direct injection into their brain.
For Macaque monkeys at least, that is not true. Macaques that were fed reasonable amounts of infected venison did acquire CWD. And the concern for humans is primarily in regard to new strains of CWD that may arise. Unless more have been discovered since the last time I checked, there are currently 5. And one in Canada is of particular concern. It is believed it would require very little alteration to misfold the human prp protein. It succesfully infected mice with similar prp configurations.

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Old 08-10-2018, 07:38 AM   #81
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There is inevitably an EHD reference or ten in every CWD thread. EHD and CWD couldn't be more different. They are thoroughly different situations with distinctly different problems and risks. The fact that EHD is bad, does not somehow negate the necessity of dealing with CWD. And while EHD does have greater short term mortality, in the long run it is much less of a concern than CWD. EHD is something that is simply new to northern areas and deer haven't established immunity like their southern relatives yet. Eventually they will, populations will re-establish, and it will be a non issue. CWD on the other hand, is like a very slow moving glacier, and when the full effects finally settle in, has the potential to truly devastate for a long time. Evolution will eventually deal with CWD as well, but it will be a longer ordeal. And CWD has some much greater concerns attached to the issue than just deer numbers. This is the first time the world has been aware of a prion disease with this degree of virulence (ease of infection) with this number of species. And it has exhibited some confusing and unusual characteristics, even for a prion. Unlike Mad Cow Disease, Creutzfelt Jakob disease, and Kuru, it has demonstrated the ability to negotiate vastly different species barriers with the right sequence of hosts. One strain, H95+, seems to be particularly good at that . . .



For Macaque monkeys at least, that is not true. Macaques that were fed reasonable amounts of infected venison did acquire CWD. And the concern for humans is primarily in regard to new strains of CWD that may arise. Unless more have been discovered since the last time I checked, there are currently 5. And one in Canada is of particular concern. It is believed it would require very little alteration to misfold the human prp protein. It succesfully infected mice with similar prp configurations.
We know there is a big difference in what and how the two "diseases" work and kill.
It keeps getting brought up because the cross species to humans transmission of CWD does not exist, there has not been any proven chance that can happen. The reason it is news is because it is pushed by people with an agenda.

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Old 08-10-2018, 08:15 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Longue Carabine View Post
There is inevitably an EHD reference or ten in every CWD thread. EHD and CWD couldn't be more different. They are thoroughly different situations with distinctly different problems and risks. The fact that EHD is bad, does not somehow negate the necessity of dealing with CWD. And while EHD does have greater short term mortality, in the long run it is much less of a concern than CWD. EHD is something that is simply new to northern areas and deer haven't established immunity like their southern relatives yet. Eventually they will, populations will re-establish, and it will be a non issue. CWD on the other hand, is like a very slow moving glacier, and when the full effects finally settle in, has the potential to truly devastate for a long time. Evolution will eventually deal with CWD as well, but it will be a longer ordeal. And CWD has some much greater concerns attached to the issue than just deer numbers. This is the first time the world has been aware of a prion disease with this degree of virulence (ease of infection) with this number of species. And it has exhibited some confusing and unusual characteristics, even for a prion. Unlike Mad Cow Disease, Creutzfelt Jakob disease, and Kuru, it has demonstrated the ability to negotiate vastly different species barriers with the right sequence of hosts. One strain, H95+, seems to be particularly good at that . . .



For Macaque monkeys at least, that is not true. Macaques that were fed reasonable amounts of infected venison did acquire CWD. And the concern for humans is primarily in regard to new strains of CWD that may arise. Unless more have been discovered since the last time I checked, there are currently 5. And one in Canada is of particular concern. It is believed it would require very little alteration to misfold the human prp protein. It succesfully infected mice with similar prp configurations.
Solid post. One of the more informed ones since this thread popped back up. The study cited yesterday said monkeys were infected by all three means the researchers tested, even though there was a lot of resistance.

Even though CWD has been around for 50+ years, research in earnest has really only begun in the past 10 or 15 years. It takes time to learn how something works, and scientists admit they don't know a lot about how CWD specifically works.

I am still not going to stop hunting for food, but I am going to make sure any cervid I shoot is tested.
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:31 AM   #83
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We know there is a big difference in what and how the two "diseases" work and kill.
It keeps getting brought up because the cross species to humans transmission of CWD does not exist, there has not been any proven chance that can happen. The reason it is news is because it is pushed by people with an agenda.

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And people with another agenda are trying to blow CWD off as no big deal, it is a big deal.
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:48 AM   #84
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And people with another agenda are trying to blow CWD off as no big deal, it is a big deal.
Yes, it deserves and needs to be studied and addressed but not the way the anti hunters, the anti high fence group and TPWD are doing it.
Until there is a realistic chance it is transmitted directly to humans by normal contact, consumption of the animals, consumption of the food the animals may contaminate (i.e. soybeans) through the prions living for eons in the soil and vegetation then all of the rash measures taken by some of the government entities is irresponsible.
It's not unlike the Ebola scare a few years ago. Yep, a couple folks got sick here. Yep there was a death of someone who traveled here. But that's it. The scare produced by the media and the ignorant was ridiculous. I don't have a political agenda in this. I don't have a deer breeding facility, I don't own a high fence hunting venue and I don't make money off hunting.
However I do own land. I do hunt and consume a lot of venison. I do stand against government over reach when it comes to private property.

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Old 08-10-2018, 10:03 AM   #85
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Nothing to see here folks.....move along.
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Old 08-10-2018, 11:01 AM   #86
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And people with another agenda are trying to blow CWD off as no big deal, it is a big deal.
And people with another agenda are trying to make CWD a big deal.

You want to know the truth? FOLLOW THE MONEY.

Both sides have a ton of money invested in deer hunting. The major Low Fence players hate they can't charge $30k for a deer anymore cause you can get the same deer for $10k. High fence operations can now make a living on 500 acres selling 40 hunts a year at $10k. It's always about money and don't forget that.
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:56 PM   #87
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And people with another agenda are trying to make CWD a big deal.

You want to know the truth? FOLLOW THE MONEY.

Both sides have a ton of money invested in deer hunting. The major Low Fence players hate they can't charge $30k for a deer anymore cause you can get the same deer for $10k. High fence operations can now make a living on 500 acres selling 40 hunts a year at $10k. It's always about money and don't forget that.
The biologist made concerted effort not to chastise the deer farmers, I'm sure some are still his friends from when he worked here in texas. Looking at just the low fence vs. the high fence guys is myopic, there is a bigger picture here of what this will do to the future of hunting, and both stand to lose, it could be game over.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:31 PM   #88
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it could be game over.
Come on man???? We have known that it has been here for at least 50 yrs (North America).
Tell me which state or area it has been "game over" for?
Gringo makes an excellent point.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:38 PM   #89
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I know a guy that contracted CWD when he was hunting on a range where deer an antelope play and buffalo are known to roam. He said there was some discouraging words but not a lot and it was partly cloudly.
wait no I dont.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:42 PM   #90
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I know a guy that contracted CWD when he was hunting on a range where deer an antelope play and buffalo are known to roam. He said there was some discouraging words but not a lot and it was partly cloudly.
wait no I dont.
Ahh....that was STD and the sheep was purty.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:44 PM   #91
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Ahh....that was STD and the sheep was purty.
ahh man..always get those mixed up...
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:33 PM   #92
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I remember reading an article a while back about researchers finding deer that were genetically resistant to CWD. I'm surprised I haven't heard more about it since. It would seem that breeding such deer and distribution of those genes would be something we should have started encouraging/implementing already.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:51 PM   #93
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I am not someone to panic or by into sensationalism but I think this will be the end of hunting in Texas as we know it. Baiting, game ranches, breeding facilities, all of it will eventually have to go away...
On the other hand breeding facilities may be what saves the TX deer herd.

There are numerous captive controlled herds that have been tested for CWD for years...keeping those around would be an asset in the CWD battle for a number of reasons
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Old 08-11-2018, 03:01 AM   #94
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It keeps getting brought up because the cross species to humans transmission of CWD does not exist, there has not been any proven chance that can happen.
In vitro it does transmit to human proteins. That, coupled with the fact that in can infect macaques in vivo, are more than enough to warrant concern.

But even if the element of human risk was removed from the equation, then the ecological, economic, and social elements are themselves enough to support this level of attention and caution. There is a lot at risk with this disease. I'll paint a picture of the prossible outcome with no infection of humans and no human intervention.
CWD will continue to spread (presently at a rate of 2 million acres per year). Unlike bacterial and viral diseases, it has no periods of remission. It simply continues spreading and does not lose ground. The longer it is in a given area, the more saturated that area becomes with infectious material (since cwd prions remain a risk in the environment for years after leaving the host via urine, feces, saliva, or their decomposing body), and the more physical contact there is between infected deer and uninfected deer. Over many decades, increasing percentages of susceptible populations become infected. Although 100% fatal on its own, cwd infected individuals are almost always killed first by predators, starvation, or weather due to their malnourished, weakened, and incoherent states. Numbers slowly but steadily continue to decrease over time. Hunting for big antlers would become a thing of the past because older males are the primary demographic of those affected. Bucks don't live to be old in heavily cwd saturated populations. Typically not beyond 3-4 at the most. And those infected while young cant support good antler growth anyway. It would take centuries, but eventually entire regions of cervids would be extirpated. But at some point in the distant future, evolution and selective pressure would produce populations that would likely be completely resistant. But in the meantime, entire ecosystems were dramatically affected by the decreased presence of cervids. Hunting cratered and with it the conservation proceeds it generates. This in turn may have likely resulted in the selling off of many public lands since they couldnt be financially supported. Support programs for other unrelated species would suffer dramatically as well, since deer hunting is the primary generator of hunting license sales, which funds support for all native species. All deer hunting business, both high fence and low, would suffer dramatic financial loss. And for those who think you can keep cwd out of a high fence . . . I have bad news. Unless you double high fence the whole perimeter it's not that hard for infected deer to spread it through the fence and vice versa. And I learned something new today. A study showed that house cats can contract cwd by oral consumption of infected central nervous system material. Which brings me to another point. The propensity displayed by cwd to alter configurations and create new strains that infect new species is higher than I thought. There are more than the 5 I mentioned yesterday it seems. That creates a concern about eventual livestock infection. So that may have a place in this future scenario as well.


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Originally Posted by DRT View Post
The reason it is news is because it is pushed by people with an agenda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gringo View Post
And people with another agenda are trying to make CWD a big deal.
You want to know the truth? FOLLOW THE MONEY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
Yes, it deserves and needs to be studied and addressed but not the way the anti hunters, the anti high fence group and TPWD are doing it.
. . . all of the rash measures taken by some of the government entities is irresponsible.
There is more than enough concrete information at this point to justify both concern over this disease, and the actions that I am aware of that have been taken by TPWD and other agencies. There is no reason to try to superimpose "hidden agendas" as the reason why, when the strength of the scientific reasons is more than capable of standing alone. From what I have seen all over forums and town hall meetings and person to person conversations, the source of objection between individuals opposing the actions of TPWD and other agencies has been that they don't understand the reasoning behind those actions. I can easily understand how someone could initially be in total opposition to some decisions made based on their immediate face value. Especially given that almost no one is familiar with the unusual circumstances and difficulties that CWD presents. But when you learn the complex details behind their reasoning, you may likely find yourself saying, "Wow I would never have imagined something like that. I can understand their line of reasoning now."

I took the time to address so many comments because I know a lot of people don't want to commit the time and energy to research this topic in depth. But, it is necessary that hunters become more well informed on this topic and stay up to date with developments. This issue is tied to the future of hunting, and we don't want any policies made, or opportunities missed due to inaccurate perceptions. If you're looking for a place to start, the podcast posted in this thread is great. So is the MeatEater podcast on cwd. I have no objections to what the biologist stated. He was careful not to say anything that wasn't well supported.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
Until there is a realistic chance it is transmitted directly to humans by normal contact, consumption of the animals, consumption of the food the animals may contaminate (i.e. soybeans) through the prions living for eons in the soil and vegetation then all of the rash measures taken by some of the government entities is irresponsible.
There have been no findings to suggest that CWD has been in the soil for "eons," or even prior to 1967. The soil study previously mentioned in this thread has not been the only one. I have seen 4 and there may be more. Texas AM even did one as well. All those I read documented plants binding CWD prions from soil. So the possibility exists. The greater the density of infected individuals per unit area, the greater the statistical odds that another individual will contract the disease via that method.


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Originally Posted by WItoTX View Post
I am still not going to stop hunting for food, but I am going to make sure any cervid I shoot is tested.
Just keep in mind they can be infectious for 18 months before testing positive.


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Originally Posted by donpablo View Post
I remember reading an article a while back about researchers finding deer that were genetically resistant to CWD. I'm surprised I haven't heard more about it since. It would seem that breeding such deer and distribution of those genes would be something we should have started encouraging/implementing already.
Some individuals in populations of elk and mule deer near the epicenter of the outbreak (Wyoming/Colorado) have begun to show the beginning stages of natural selection against CWD, and via a small addition to the end of one of their chromosomes have aquired some minute resistance to CWD in that it takes an additional year or two for them to die from the disease. While this initially seems like positive news, it also means that they end up spreading more infectious material, in greater density, to more areas, and therefore to more individuals due to the longer period of time they have the disease. And that resistance gene, per one study, still has no resistance to the H95+ strain.
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Old 08-11-2018, 09:51 AM   #95
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On the other hand breeding facilities may be what saves the TX deer herd.

There are numerous captive controlled herds that have been tested for CWD for years...keeping those around would be an asset in the CWD battle for a number of reasons
The genetic study is finding some deer resistance to CWD clincal synptoms. However the genotype prolongs the actual onset of the clinical synptoms or no clinical signs at all. So the deer is infected and is shedding the prions over a longer timeframe and greater distances to other animals.



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Old 08-13-2018, 10:22 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Longue Carabine View Post
In vitro it does transmit to human proteins. That, coupled with the fact that in can infect macaques in vivo, are more than enough to warrant concern.

But even if the element of human risk was removed from the equation, then the ecological, economic, and social elements are themselves enough to support this level of attention and caution. There is a lot at risk with this disease. I'll paint a picture of the prossible outcome with no infection of humans and no human intervention.
CWD will continue to spread (presently at a rate of 2 million acres per year). Unlike bacterial and viral diseases, it has no periods of remission. It simply continues spreading and does not lose ground. The longer it is in a given area, the more saturated that area becomes with infectious material (since cwd prions remain a risk in the environment for years after leaving the host via urine, feces, saliva, or their decomposing body), and the more physical contact there is between infected deer and uninfected deer. Over many decades, increasing percentages of susceptible populations become infected. Although 100% fatal on its own, cwd infected individuals are almost always killed first by predators, starvation, or weather due to their malnourished, weakened, and incoherent states. Numbers slowly but steadily continue to decrease over time. Hunting for big antlers would become a thing of the past because older males are the primary demographic of those affected. Bucks don't live to be old in heavily cwd saturated populations. Typically not beyond 3-4 at the most. And those infected while young cant support good antler growth anyway. It would take centuries, but eventually entire regions of cervids would be extirpated. But at some point in the distant future, evolution and selective pressure would produce populations that would likely be completely resistant. But in the meantime, entire ecosystems were dramatically affected by the decreased presence of cervids. Hunting cratered and with it the conservation proceeds it generates. This in turn may have likely resulted in the selling off of many public lands since they couldnt be financially supported. Support programs for other unrelated species would suffer dramatically as well, since deer hunting is the primary generator of hunting license sales, which funds support for all native species. All deer hunting business, both high fence and low, would suffer dramatic financial loss. And for those who think you can keep cwd out of a high fence . . . I have bad news. Unless you double high fence the whole perimeter it's not that hard for infected deer to spread it through the fence and vice versa. And I learned something new today. A study showed that house cats can contract cwd by oral consumption of infected central nervous system material. Which brings me to another point. The propensity displayed by cwd to alter configurations and create new strains that infect new species is higher than I thought. There are more than the 5 I mentioned yesterday it seems. That creates a concern about eventual livestock infection. So that may have a place in this future scenario as well.






There is more than enough concrete information at this point to justify both concern over this disease, and the actions that I am aware of that have been taken by TPWD and other agencies. There is no reason to try to superimpose "hidden agendas" as the reason why, when the strength of the scientific reasons is more than capable of standing alone. From what I have seen all over forums and town hall meetings and person to person conversations, the source of objection between individuals opposing the actions of TPWD and other agencies has been that they don't understand the reasoning behind those actions. I can easily understand how someone could initially be in total opposition to some decisions made based on their immediate face value. Especially given that almost no one is familiar with the unusual circumstances and difficulties that CWD presents. But when you learn the complex details behind their reasoning, you may likely find yourself saying, "Wow I would never have imagined something like that. I can understand their line of reasoning now."

I took the time to address so many comments because I know a lot of people don't want to commit the time and energy to research this topic in depth. But, it is necessary that hunters become more well informed on this topic and stay up to date with developments. This issue is tied to the future of hunting, and we don't want any policies made, or opportunities missed due to inaccurate perceptions. If you're looking for a place to start, the podcast posted in this thread is great. So is the MeatEater podcast on cwd. I have no objections to what the biologist stated. He was careful not to say anything that wasn't well supported.



There have been no findings to suggest that CWD has been in the soil for "eons," or even prior to 1967. The soil study previously mentioned in this thread has not been the only one. I have seen 4 and there may be more. Texas AM even did one as well. All those I read documented plants binding CWD prions from soil. So the possibility exists. The greater the density of infected individuals per unit area, the greater the statistical odds that another individual will contract the disease via that method.



Just keep in mind they can be infectious for 18 months before testing positive.




Some individuals in populations of elk and mule deer near the epicenter of the outbreak (Wyoming/Colorado) have begun to show the beginning stages of natural selection against CWD, and via a small addition to the end of one of their chromosomes have aquired some minute resistance to CWD in that it takes an additional year or two for them to die from the disease. While this initially seems like positive news, it also means that they end up spreading more infectious material, in greater density, to more areas, and therefore to more individuals due to the longer period of time they have the disease. And that resistance gene, per one study, still has no resistance to the H95+ strain.
Well said sir
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:31 PM   #97
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Default CWD cervids

I would just like to share some pics from the pens at the Wyoming research facility. Here are some cervids that will definitely die from CWD, all the elk in the pens eventually do.
Also some mule deer that share a common fence line with the research facility. I do not agree with your comments on antler development in CWD animals and endemic areas.
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:39 PM   #98
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Joe Rogans Podcast #1154 on 08/08/18 has some good information on CWD.
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:47 PM   #99
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Default cwd mule deer

These bucks ranged in age at harvest from 4 1/2 to 8 1/2 years old. The property is right across the high fence that deer regularly move in and out of now, A new double fence is going up to prevent future dispersions. This one buck is still kicking. All were taken within 1 mile of the cwd research facility and in the heart of the endemic area. I have about 20 years worth of harvest pics, no decrease in trophy size and in fact mule deer numbers are up for us the last couple of years due to good snowpack and subsequent nice spring greenup and winter range conditions.

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Old 08-13-2018, 02:51 PM   #100
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https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...ility-macaques
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/tbed.12612

Strange this study found no transmission. As did the 10 year study done on cattle at the Sybille Research facility. Cattle penned for 10-12 years at various ages, I believe, and no positives or evidence of transmission to them. That study was recently released.
http://www.uwyo.edu/uw/news/2018/05/...g-disease.html

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