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Old 08-02-2018, 07:28 AM   #1
bearintex
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Default 6.5 Grendel AR problems, looking for ideas

I've built a dozen or so AR's from the ground up. Never had any issues with them shooting well. Until now. Bear Creek Arsenal barrel in 6.5G. This is the second barrel, the first exhibited almost exactly the same problems. That's got me thinking that something else is amiss. I have tried the upper on three different lowers. Multiple scopes and mounts. With suppressor and without. Tore the upper apart and remounted the barrel twice. About the only thing I haven't tried is a different stripped upper. That is going to be the next thing I try, just waiting for the right one to go on sale somewhere. I need another anyways to build a 10.5" 223 on. :spin:

Hornady Black ammo. I could accept mediocre accuracy with a particular ammo, but this is unacceptable. This is at 50 yards, 1" dot for reference. Disregard the bottom left hole, that was from sight in.




And then to rule out the scope, I moved it to my 223 AR and did this at 100 yards with cheap steel ammo (again a 1" dot):



Everything is torqued properly. I really want to like this gun, but it is making it hard.

What am I missing?
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:33 AM   #2
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Have you tried different ammo? I wouldn’t think it would be your upper. I would think ammo or barrel. You have already ruled out the scope and mount. I had a grendal that didn’t like a Hornady load. This was when it new to the market and only a couple box ammos were available.
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:35 AM   #3
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Get a good quality barrel. From what Iíve heard, the BEar Creek Barrels are hit and miss.


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Old 08-02-2018, 07:37 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onetondodge View Post
Have you tried different ammo? I wouldnít think it would be your upper. I would think ammo or barrel. You have already ruled out the scope and mount. I had a grendal that didnít like a Hornady load. This was when it new to the market and only a couple box ammos were available.
Like I said, I could handle mediocre, but 6" at 50 yards is not going to be ammo related. I've shot SKS's with barrels so loose the bullet is bouncing around going down the bore that shoot better.
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:44 AM   #5
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Just throwing ideas out there bud. My brother had a smith and Wesson ar15 that couldn’t keep it on a 8” pie plate at 50 with 55fmj American eagle. Only thing that Gun seemed to like was Winchester supreme. It would shoot it around an inch. Seems like you have already changed the barrel once. Could be the issue.
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:03 AM   #6
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I posted on the other thread as well but I would think you got a bad BCA barrel. I would be very surprised to learn the upper was the problem, unless the barrel or bcg are just rattling around. I shoot out at greenwood fairly often and you are welcome to try a few of my hand loads to see if they help.
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:09 AM   #7
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Two different barrels doing exactly the same thing?
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:20 AM   #8
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Its either the barrel , or the receiver is machined badly at the barrel seat .
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:28 AM   #9
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Did you swap out the bolt when you changed barrels out? Still sounds like a barrel problem to me. Since the bolt locks directly into the barrel on an AR, the upper receiver has little to do with it.
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:32 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearintex View Post
Like I said, I could handle mediocre, but 6" at 50 yards is not going to be ammo related. I've shot SKS's with barrels so loose the bullet is bouncing around going down the bore that shoot better.
I was getting around 4-5" groups with the hornady black ammo at around 50-60 yards.

Try some of the sst or the federal.
I finally got it to shoot good with reloads and the federal gold metal with the 130gr berger bullets, but now I can not find them in stock anywhere. I spoke with Federal and they are saying they will have it back in stock around October.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:10 AM   #11
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On their site they say 16" and longer barrels they expect 1" or better. Keep sending back until they make it shoot.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:21 AM   #12
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Iím going to go with a bad chamber. Which goes back to a barrel issue. If they ran several barrels with an out of spec reamer itís possible you may have gotten more than 1 from the same batch.


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Old 08-02-2018, 01:03 PM   #13
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The BLACK ammo was doing the same thing in mine. It would send a flyer out of nowhere. I noticed a tip missing on one of the bullets. After further inspection, I found several that were loose and a couple that were disfigured. I have some Fusions now, but haven't been back to range yet.
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Old 08-02-2018, 01:42 PM   #14
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Is the barrel nut torqued to spec? I once had a barrel nut that was hitting a bad thread so it felt tight but it was loose. It was flinging bullets everywhere. Once I figured it out the groups shrank to sub moa
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
Iím going to go with a bad chamber. Which goes back to a barrel issue. If they ran several barrels with an out of spec reamer itís possible you may have gotten more than 1 from the same batch.


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It's not just one. It's a whole bunch. There have been quite a few threads floating around from what I gather about the Bear Creek barrels not being very good.

My buddy, is also on his second barrel too. He's now put off the caliber (even though I told him to get a quality barrel)


https://www.classicfirearms.com/bear-creek-arsenal


I'll let you do your own research, and draw your own conclusion on the manufacturer.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:03 PM   #16
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Do you have a spare barrel you can try? Caliber doesn’t really matter and it’s just going to cost a little wrench time but that’ll let you narrow the issue down a bit.

I don’t use BCA but I have heard they are hit and miss aspreviously mentioned. It would be kind of difficult to believe the barrel is the issue if, as you said, it’s doing the exact same thing with 2 different barrels from the same manufacturer but it’s definitely not impossible.
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Old 08-04-2018, 07:30 AM   #17
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Make sure bolt matches the barrel headspacing requirement(.125 vs .136). Had a bad 6.8 barrel once that did the same thing. Replaced it with a barrel from bison and it shot great. Sounds like bad barrels to me.
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Old 08-04-2018, 06:44 PM   #18
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I’d replace the barrel and go with a reputable manufacturer, a buddy has had 2 of those barrels and sent both of them back.
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:37 PM   #19
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It's the barrel. BCA grendel bbl's are known for this, they make a good x39 bbl though.
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:48 PM   #20
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Hornady Black has been terrible for me. I gave away what I had left.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:27 PM   #21
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I just got a 450 BM from BCA friday it shot awesome. No malfunctions and all 3 shots touching when I did my part. I was very impressed with quality for the price.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:42 PM   #22
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Its hard for me to believe two different barrels shooting that bad? But I do not know what to tell you to try other than different ammo and go from there.

Ammo would be easiest change
Try different bolt
Try different barrel
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Old 08-06-2018, 06:55 PM   #23
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I personally know of 4 such barrels and 1 replacement that all exhibit the same problem. One is mine. Call them up and get your money back.
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Old 08-07-2018, 07:09 AM   #24
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I finally got my hands on another box of ammo- Hornady SST's. I'm going to take 3 shots with it as it sits to rule out the ammo. I have a borrowed BCG to try as well. Then it's off and back to Primary for a different brand. Tired of wasting money on ammo through it.
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Old 08-07-2018, 07:10 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightacres View Post
Make sure bolt matches the barrel headspacing requirement(.125 vs .136).
How are you measuring that?
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:22 AM   #26
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http://discussions.texasbowhunter.co...d.php?t=679680
Look at this thread and the last post#19 explains the .125" vs the .136" head space on the bolt.

Last edited by Killer; 08-07-2018 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 08-08-2018, 11:36 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer View Post
http://discussions.texasbowhunter.co...d.php?t=679680
Look at this thread and the last post#19 explains the .125" vs the .136" head space on the bolt.
FWIW, that post does not at all explain how to measure the headspace, which is what he asked.

Bear, your barrel sucks. Yes, the second one. Send it back.

Ask yourself if it would have been worth the time and money you've wasted to just go with a high-quality barrel in the first place. Best of luck in your search.
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Old 08-08-2018, 09:57 PM   #28
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Said screw it and pulled the barrel and returned it today. Didn’t want to waste any more time or effort on it. Put the store credit towards an assembled upper from Ghost Firearms. Primary had them on sale. Shot it this evening with the Hornady Black and Hornady SST’s, both 123 grain. Little over MOA from both. Moved over to the 350 steel and rang it 6 times in a row once I figured out the holdover. The scope I have on it right now doesn’t have dialable turrets or reticle, so I had to guess. Took 5 or 6 to get on it. Then moved to 615 yard steel and I hit it first shot on a WAG holdover. Then hit it 12 of 14 between me and my buddy that was along for the ride. Satisfied with this upper. Now time to go into load development.
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:32 PM   #29
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Good to hear progress has been made!
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:50 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearintex View Post
said screw it and pulled the barrel and returned it today. Didn’t want to waste any more time or effort on it. Put the store credit towards an assembled upper from ghost firearms. Primary had them on sale. Shot it this evening with the hornady black and hornady sst’s, both 123 grain. Little over moa from both. Moved over to the 350 steel and rang it 6 times in a row once i figured out the holdover. The scope i have on it right now doesn’t have dialable turrets or reticle, so i had to guess. Took 5 or 6 to get on it. Then moved to 615 yard steel and i hit it first shot on a wag holdover. Then hit it 12 of 14 between me and my buddy that was along for the ride. Satisfied with this upper. Now time to go into load development.
which bcg are you running with this ghost upper? also did you get the 20" or 24"

Last edited by 2BigMethod; 08-09-2018 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:08 AM   #31
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which bcg are you running with this ghost upper? also did you get the 20" or 24"
Not real sure, likely a BCA. It was a freebie when I bought the original barrel. I got the 20Ē. Thought about the 24Ē, but that gets too long with the can on it for hunting.

Headed to the range shortly to play. Going to let the kid shoot it under match type conditions. He was saying the other day he wanted to try the PRS game with me. Going to shoot the 18Ē steel at 615 yards 2 times, then transition to a 345 yard 8Ē plate 4 times, then back to the 615 2 more times, on a 2 minute clock. Should be relatively easy with a gas gun.
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