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Old 07-10-2018, 02:33 PM   #1
Hoggslayer
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Default Safer Schools

Just a reminder.

School will be starting here soon and your school boards are meeting now to discus heighten security measures at your child's school. You should be there to ensure that subject gets as much, if not more attention than the new football field. Every School board will be doing a risk assessment to allocate budget money. In doing so, they will have to put a dollar value on your child's life in order to plug that into the equation. That number will be way too low if a tragedy takes place at your school. No school will be 100% safe in this day and age, as times they are changing. Its time that our priority change to protecting our most precious assets; our children.
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Old 07-10-2018, 02:37 PM   #2
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Amen
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:09 PM   #3
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Salaries, Athletics and/or Safety are gonna CLASH.........gonna be interesting to see which solo wins the battle!!!

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Old 07-10-2018, 04:26 PM   #4
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Salaries, Athletics and/or Safety are gonna CLASH.........gonna be interesting to see which solo wins the battle!!!

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^this
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:34 PM   #5
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Salaries, Athletics and/or Safety are gonna CLASH.........gonna be interesting to see which solo wins the battle!!!

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Hard to re-fight that battle after your child gets shot in school while minding his own business. I like High school football as much as the next guy but I love my kids even more. You can play football in a cow pasture. I know because I did when I was in school.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:47 PM   #6
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Salaries, Athletics and/or Safety are gonna CLASH.........gonna be interesting to see which solo wins the battle!!!

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I'll bet that at most schools safety is gonna take a backseat to a **** football game.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:49 PM   #7
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I'll bet that at most schools safety is gonna take a backseat to a **** football game.
This.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:50 PM   #8
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Our city tried to pass a "safety and athletics bond". It failed. They then pushed a "safety" bond and it passed. They are building the indoor football field right now. Those football kids will be safe from the sun.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:54 PM   #9
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Hard to re-fight that battle after your child gets shot in school while minding his own business. I like High school football as much as the next guy but I love my kids even more. You can play football in a cow pasture. I know because I did when I was in school.
ABSOLUTE and TOTAL agreement sir!!! Our SHORT memory spans are always the issue in these discussions.....and our downfall in decision making. I actually LOVE high school football. Heck my high school won the state championship again this year. I personally don't care if all athletics are abolished to use TAX payers money more wisely to figure out how to fortify these schools. Never a 100% fix for looney tunes but obviously inner city schools have figured out some of this already.
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:03 PM   #10
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Our city tried to pass a "safety and athletics bond". It failed. They then pushed a "safety" bond and it passed. They are building the indoor football field right now. Those football kids will be safe from the sun.
Ouch!!!!

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Old 07-10-2018, 05:14 PM   #11
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Our city tried to pass a "safety and athletics bond". It failed. They then pushed a "safety" bond and it passed. They are building the indoor football field right now. Those football kids will be safe from the sun.
Indoor high school field !? Absurd
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:02 PM   #12
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I didn't mean to turn this thread into a high school athletics debate, but since we are here.
In just 30 seconds of research on the web, I found this info.
Some of the high school football stadiums we've built in recent years.
2001 Dragon Stadium, Southlake Carroll $15.3 M ($4.6 M renovation in 2010)
Total: $19.9 M
2004 C.H. Collins Stadium, Denton ISD $23 M
2005 Kincaide Stadium, Dallas ISD $40 M
2006 Vernon Newsom Stadium, Mansfield ISD $29.8 M
2005 Toyota Stadium, Frisco ISD $80 M ($39 M renovation pending)
2012 Eagle Stadium, Allen $60 M
2015 Memorial Stadium, Mesquite ISD $11M in renovations
2017 Legacy Stadium Katy, TX $62M
Under construction McKinney ISD Stadium $69.9 M (cracks in concrete discovered and unclear when it will open)
Under construction Prosper ISD $48M

That's almost 1/2 Billion and I'm sure there are tons more.

Last year Clay's School put turf on their field. I bet they wish they had spent that money elsewhere now.
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:03 PM   #13
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I am an ex high school coach/teacher and love sports, but there is way to much money put into athletics as far a coaches salaries and equipment and travel, IN MY OPINION!

A lot of this money could be used to build better schools and facilities and to build and protect BETTER the kids in these schools. When you have AD's and Head Coaches making over $100,000 per year, that is just plain dumb. A teacher cannot teach long enough to reach that pay scale! And do not tell me that an AD or Head coach and maybe some other coaches work longer than teachers! That is a
BS call! A good/great teacher works well after she leaves school!
We will never be able to protect kids at schools 100%, but there are many ways that we can increase their protection without a huge amount of costs period!
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:08 PM   #14
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One change that I'd like to see is a Safety audit of our schools. One that is reported to the public just like their academic ratings. The Lower your score, the higher percentage of your budget must go to safety.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:35 PM   #15
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I am an ex high school coach/teacher and love sports, but there is way to much money put into athletics as far a coaches salaries and equipment and travel, IN MY OPINION!

A lot of this money could be used to build better schools and facilities and to build and protect BETTER the kids in these schools. When you have AD's and Head Coaches making over $100,000 per year, that is just plain dumb. A teacher cannot teach long enough to reach that pay scale! And do not tell me that an AD or Head coach and maybe some other coaches work longer than teachers! That is a
BS call! A good/great teacher works well after she leaves school!
We will never be able to protect kids at schools 100%, but there are many ways that we can increase their protection without a huge amount of costs period!
I have been screaming this for years. Most people look at you like you're two steps below a child molester if you suggest taxpayer money could be better spent.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:48 PM   #16
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One change that I'd like to see is a Safety audit of our schools. One that is reported to the public just like their academic ratings. The Lower your score, the higher percentage of your budget must go to safety.
Guess we gotta have some type of metrics to develop the safety audit. Is there a GOLD standard? It appears security is all over the board in this county, state, heck ÖÖ..nationally!
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:03 AM   #17
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TTT.

If you have children in public schools you should be more involved. Geezzz.....If I shot a button buck out of season I would get a bigger rise out of y'all.

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Old 07-11-2018, 11:09 AM   #18
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After the Santa Fe shooting our school (Burnet) met with the City of Burnet, School Board and PD and decided to have a full-time officer on each campus and 2 at the highschool. They also revamped security and from my understanding doing active drills this summer. More is needed but its a start.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:12 AM   #19
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I have gone to my kids schools with them and walked around explaining what to do if on lockdown. I still think there should be nice athletic facilities- split them up and have one per District and break up play- Football does not have to be Friday night. Have all day Saturday and Saturday night. The sports themselves should be booster. You want your kid to play in a good program move to that area that has strong booster program. This would free up money for security
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:10 PM   #20
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I have gone to my kids schools with them and walked around explaining what to do if on lockdown. I still think there should be nice athletic facilities- split them up and have one per District and break up play- Football does not have to be Friday night. Have all day Saturday and Saturday night. The sports themselves should be booster. You want your kid to play in a good program move to that area that has strong booster program. This would free up money for security
I think a nice football field is great. Santa fe spent money last year putting in turf. Money well spent up until May 18th. Now, not such a great investment. My point is we need to wake up and prioritize our children's safety. If your school district fails to meet a safety standard then the law should say they are required to prioritize safety when allocating budget. What is your schools safety rating? Is there a standard they are exspected to meet? If they dont meet it who knows? I was guilty of thinking it couldn't happen to me.

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Old 07-11-2018, 01:09 PM   #21
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We should all agree we already pay too much in taxes to the ISD's

The public needs to demand they reform schools and stop wasting or stealing money and spend it wiser.

Personally I don't think spending millions or billions at schools will make the kids any safer. Shooters will find the loophole. And beside that there's not much evidence that shootings have increased per capita. It just feels that way because the media blows everything up instantly no matter where in the world it happens.

I will agree that if/when money is spent on safety it should come from athletics or money squandered elsewhere. Definitely not from new bonds or raised taxes. We don't need to be like the liberals that always say "it's about the children" I mean it is but there is (wether you like it or not) a limit/value on life.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:26 PM   #22
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We should all agree we already pay too much in taxes to the ISD's

The public needs to demand they reform schools and stop wasting or stealing money and spend it wiser.

Personally I don't think spending millions or billions at schools will make the kids any safer. Shooters will find the loophole. And beside that there's not much evidence that shootings have increased per capita. It just feels that way because the media blows everything up instantly no matter where in the world it happens.

I will agree that if/when money is spent on safety it should come from athletics or money squandered elsewhere. Definitely not from new bonds or raised taxes. We don't need to be like the liberals that always say "it's about the children" I mean it is but there is (wether you like it or not) a limit/value on life.
You can put a value on you child's life? What would that number be? Here are a few pics of my son, please tell me what his value is?
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:37 PM   #23
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I know for a fact that our school district is completely wasteful with money. They installed flat screen TVís in a high school cafeteria to show a lunch menu! What was wrong with the piece of paper in the wall they used to have?

I also know they spend a ton of money on an AD that does hardly anything.

Iíve given some thought about running for school board and expose to the public how much waste is in our ISD. Then try to fix it. Iím still a few years away from that, but if I thought I could pull it off, I would.


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Old 07-11-2018, 01:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
We should all agree we already pay too much in taxes to the ISD's

The public needs to demand they reform schools and stop wasting or stealing money and spend it wiser.

Personally I don't think spending millions or billions at schools will make the kids any safer. Shooters will find the loophole. And beside that there's not much evidence that shootings have increased per capita. It just feels that way because the media blows everything up instantly no matter where in the world it happens.

I will agree that if/when money is spent on safety it should come from athletics or money squandered elsewhere. Definitely not from new bonds or raised taxes. We don't need to be like the liberals that always say "it's about the children" I mean it is but there is (wether you like it or not) a limit/value on life.
There is no limit/ or value that I would put on my childs life or my wife's life. Im sorry but what wrote is totally wrong. I would die for my children or wife and not think twice about it!
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:46 PM   #25
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Indeed, very interesting thread
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:48 PM   #26
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No comment back? I guess he's still crunching the numbers trying to come up with that value.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:09 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
We should all agree we already pay too much in taxes to the ISD's

The public needs to demand they reform schools and stop wasting or stealing money and spend it wiser.

Personally I don't think spending millions or billions at schools will make the kids any safer. Shooters will find the loophole. And beside that there's not much evidence that shootings have increased per capita. It just feels that way because the media blows everything up instantly no matter where in the world it happens.

I will agree that if/when money is spent on safety it should come from athletics or money squandered elsewhere. Definitely not from new bonds or raised taxes. We don't need to be like the liberals that always say "it's about the children" I mean it is but there is (wether you like it or not) a limit/value on life.
As I sit here in the principal's chair at my campus (lunch break!), I agree with everything you said. Schools need to be completely reformed to prioritize safety. That reform has to start at the top - with the legislature and TEA. Local school districts cant just re-arrange their funds to cover all the costs because of all the unfunded mandates that the state already requires of them. Not all districts have millions to spend at their own discretion. Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent each year on state testing above and beyond what is required by the federal government. Reduce the testing (and the required funding) and use that savings on security. Put a % cap on funds for athletics. Safety audits already exist, but they are a joke. Tighten them up and include minimum requirements for all schools and tie it to their state funding. Eliminate unfunded mandates.
The money is already there to do all these things but the state has to change its priorities.
I was at a school board meeting this week where they couldn't agree to put a security fence around a school because of the appearance of a prison. Everyone's idea of school has to change.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:12 PM   #28
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edited...

Last edited by GrapeApe; 07-11-2018 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:18 PM   #29
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edited...
I agree 100%, but I didn't want to get my own thread axed for name calling.

Thanks for your discretion. LOL
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:27 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Dudley View Post
As I sit here in the principal's chair at my campus (lunch break!), I agree with everything you said. Schools need to be completely reformed to prioritize safety. That reform has to start at the top - with the legislature and TEA. Local school districts cant just re-arrange their funds to cover all the costs because of all the unfunded mandates that the state already requires of them. Not all districts have millions to spend at their own discretion. Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent each year on state testing above and beyond what is required by the federal government. Reduce the testing (and the required funding) and use that savings on security. Put a % cap on funds for athletics. Safety audits already exist, but they are a joke. Tighten them up and include minimum requirements for all schools and tie it to their state funding. Eliminate unfunded mandates.
The money is already there to do all these things but the state has to change its priorities.
I was at a school board meeting this week where they couldn't agree to put a security fence around a school because of the appearance of a prison. Everyone's idea of school has to change.
This is what I'm talking about. Are the Safety audits done by the state or just the districts insurance company? Its not really a Safety audit but a risk assessment. The state needs to do more.

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Old 07-11-2018, 02:35 PM   #31
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School districts are required to complete a safety audit from the state every three years. Its a simple form to fill out and a written report to include with it. No accountability involved. I'm sure they are all in a big warehouse in Austin where nobody has ever looked a them.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:49 PM   #32
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It will only get fixed from the ground up. Communities will bear the brunt of the responsibility for making change happen.

Be at those meetings. DEMAND that security become top priority or you will school your kids at home.

We as individuals, then as a like-minded group, focused on the cause can make change happen.

Never give up. Never give in. Complacency is what got us here. Act!
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:50 PM   #33
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So far, everything I've read is talking about money. Yes, I do realize that's what most of it boils down to but what are some specific ideas to push on our school boards? Not just say you need to put more money on safety. They can pump up the budget but if it's not used for effective measures, than it's just a waste too.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:55 PM   #34
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It is just my opinion that there isn't any money to be made by making our schools safe. I have one going into 9th and 2 going into 7th and every year it makes me sick to see what the public schools waste all their money on/ uh oh a budget short again, we blew it all too quick. We need more money. Again.

It is also my opinion that this is more of a political debate rather than a rational one. Neither side wants to give an inch on any solid approach to fixing the problem.

I am so sick of the "we don't want the schools to look like prisons."

My children have never spent anytime in jail or prison yet. Yet they are perfectly ok with going to sporting events/airports where they go through security and have a really good time while doing so.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:05 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuttingedge View Post
It will only get fixed from the ground up. Communities will bear the brunt of the responsibility for making change happen.

Be at those meetings. DEMAND that security become top priority or you will school your kids at home.

We as individuals, then as a like-minded group, focused on the cause can make change happen.

Never give up. Never give in. Complacency is what got us here. Act!
We need parents holding their administrators accountable and voters holding our official accountable.

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Old 07-11-2018, 07:35 PM   #36
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Anyone who wants to make a change to schools should run for election to their local school board. Run on the platform of prioritizing school safety. Win the election. Make the changes. In 2-3 years every school board in Texas would controlled by safety-first members. Simple plan, right?
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:09 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoggslayer View Post
I didn't mean to turn this thread into a high school athletics debate, but since we are here.
In just 30 seconds of research on the web, I found this info.
Some of the high school football stadiums we've built in recent years.
2001 Dragon Stadium, Southlake Carroll $15.3 M ($4.6 M renovation in 2010)
Total: $19.9 M
2004 C.H. Collins Stadium, Denton ISD $23 M
2005 Kincaide Stadium, Dallas ISD $40 M
2006 Vernon Newsom Stadium, Mansfield ISD $29.8 M
2005 Toyota Stadium, Frisco ISD $80 M ($39 M renovation pending)
2012 Eagle Stadium, Allen $60 M
2015 Memorial Stadium, Mesquite ISD $11M in renovations
2017 Legacy Stadium Katy, TX $62M
Under construction McKinney ISD Stadium $69.9 M (cracks in concrete discovered and unclear when it will open)
Under construction Prosper ISD $48M

That's almost 1/2 Billion and I'm sure there are tons more.

Last year Clay's School put turf on their field. I bet they wish they had spent that money elsewhere now.
Talk about a complete waste of money, this seems like the root of the dumbing down of the population.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:17 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudley View Post
Anyone who wants to make a change to schools should run for election to their local school board. Run on the platform of prioritizing school safety. Win the election. Make the changes. In 2-3 years every school board in Texas would controlled by safety-first members. Simple plan, right?
Should be but I know its not that easy. It's not always peaches and cream when you get off in it knee deep.

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Old 07-11-2018, 09:40 PM   #39
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Almost 70 million for a high school stadium!!
Wow
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:43 AM   #40
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Almost 70 million for a high school stadium!!
Wow
You should see how many $15M - $20M indoor practice facilities Texas High schools have now a days. If a District can spend that kind of money so little Johnny doesn't have to brake a sweat while he's playing football, you'd think they could spend $1M on maybe a few extras campus police. Heck, maybe even a few extra teachers or just a little more pay for the ones they do have.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:13 AM   #41
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Talk about a complete waste of money, this seems like the root of the dumbing down of the population.
Please expand on this.
You think.. facilities that provide the latest technologies, equipment, atmosphere, and programs are the 'root of the dumbing down of the population'.... not the liberal, everyone gets a medal, everyone passes, no discipline allowed, state ran tests, and teaching methods that are absolutely the most ludicrous **** on the planet ..... the stadiums built with bond money which the community supplies....are.....
really?
thats what you're goin with?

Security funding should be state provided for a standard - any extra be municipal/bonded.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:23 AM   #42
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Hoggslayer- First off I have said many prayers for your family. I will say that HS athletics keeps many kids in school. I was one of them. With that said for football I would reccomend. 1 stadium for the district. Put security measures in place. Make all teams share this facility and not everyone plays on Friday night. Alot easier to staff security and put things in place for safety at one venue over multiple days at one place than everything one night. Make the actual sports funded by booster. Parents support the teams. Take the saved money and put it into school safety.

Last edited by glen; 07-12-2018 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:35 AM   #43
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There is no limit/ or value that I would put on my childs life or my wife's life. Im sorry but what wrote is totally wrong. I would die for my children or wife and not think twice about it!
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No comment back? I guess he's still crunching the numbers trying to come up with that value.
In fairy tale land there is no limit. In real life there is. If you're child (or mine) is worth 10 million then every child is worth 10 mil. There's simply not that much money out there.
Most people would die for their family. Put you can put a value on life. There's statistical data in each Country that has this value. Google it.

If you can't be at least a little logical for this portion of this discussion I'll bow out.

As for schools wasting money..I've said that for years so I agree 100%. I have plenty of posts on here complaining about school waste and scams.

As mentioned before if you think just telling the schools the kids need to be safer will solve the problem IMO you're mistaken. Schools seem to never made good decisions with money or anything really. What is it you want schools to do exactly?
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:39 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by glen View Post
Hoggslayer- First off I have said many prayers for your family. I will say that HS athletics keeps many kids in school. I was one of them. With that said for football I would reccomend. 1 stadium for the district. Put security measures in place. Make all teams share this facility and not everyone plays on Friday night. Alot easier to staff security and put things in place for safety at one venue over multiple days at one place than everything one night. Make the actual sports funded by booster. Parents support the teams. Take the saved money and put it into school safety.
Sort of like marching band. And this is a good idea. I thought that's what they were doing in Round Rock Kelly Reeves Stadium. That thing is huge.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:56 AM   #45
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Talk about a complete waste of money, this seems like the root of the dumbing down of the population.
Under Texas law local districts can vote on bonds for athletics, but cannot vote on a bond for improving security, specifically if those funds would pay a person such as a security officer.

We have to keep things a level playing field per school finance laws, except athletics. The logic is the state controls funding of basic needs so no school or district has disproportionate funds, more simply so wealthy areas do not have an advantage over low income districts

You want things to change, that is where it needs to happen. Districts should have the latitude to fund security and non-educator staffing for security purposes
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:06 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
In fairy tale land there is no limit. In real life there is. If you're child (or mine) is worth 10 million then every child is worth 10 mil. There's simply not that much money out there.
Most people would die for their family. Put you can put a value on life. There's statistical data in each Country that has this value. Google it.

If you can't be at least a little logical for this portion of this discussion I'll bow out.

As for schools wasting money..I've said that for years so I agree 100%. I have plenty of posts on here complaining about school waste and scams.

As mentioned before if you think just telling the schools the kids need to be safer will solve the problem IMO you're mistaken. Schools seem to never made good decisions with money or anything really. What is it you want schools to do exactly?
I love high school sports just as much as the next guy. I think a healthy sports program is beneficial to the students and it brings money into the districts. I thoroughly understand and agree that everything needs to be factored into the equation when doing a risk assessment. My point of this thread was not to debate the worth of high school sports, or the value of my child or anyone else. The purpose was to wake people up so they don't have to go thru what I just went thru. I thought I was being a little logical. I hope and pray that the parents this happens to next, can find a little logic.

Last edited by Hoggslayer; 07-12-2018 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:28 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Playa View Post
Under Texas law local districts can vote on bonds for athletics, but cannot vote on a bond for improving security, specifically if those funds would pay a person such as a security officer.

We have to keep things a level playing field per school finance laws, except athletics.The logic is the state controls funding of basic needs so no school or district has disproportionate funds, more simply so wealthy areas do not have an advantage over low income districts.
You want things to change, that is where it needs to happen. Districts should have the latitude to fund security and non-educator staffing for security purposes
So those things that get funded separate (athletics, other UIL stuff) thru bonds need to be tied to a Safety Audit. If your score is below the mark, a portion of your bond money goes into a state fund to be evenly distributed. I can guarantee, when tax payers see their money going out of the district because school administrators aren't following certain safety protocols; stuff will change really fast. I think that's pretty logical.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:22 AM   #48
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It's kinda sad this suject isn't getting more attention. I'm praying no one else has to go through a school shooting. You cannot even fathom what comes with one of these tragedies. No one is equipped to handle this stuff. It affects you in ways you can't even imagine. Only by the grace of God am I able to move forward each day.

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Old 07-13-2018, 08:22 AM   #49
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Hoggslayer,

I thought about you yesterday. They are building a new middle school down the road from my house. During construction they had an 8' privacy fence all the way around the school. Well yesterday I noticed they were removing it as the school is almost done and the permanent fence was 3 or 4 ft tall. Odd to me they protect it more when it is just protecting the construction assets/materials, but less protected when full of kids.

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Old 07-13-2018, 08:31 AM   #50
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Just one of the oddities of the world we live in. I find it really odd how little attention this subject is getting and how some people want to debate the value of a child. People now a days get bent out of shape more about a dog than they do a human being.

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