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Old 07-10-2018, 12:26 PM   #1
Traildust
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Default Laws....we don't need no stinkin laws......

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-par...-politics.html
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:44 PM   #2
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We don't need any stinking "laws" that violate our freedoms. Good for Trump. **** you big brother.
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Old 07-10-2018, 02:51 PM   #3
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I mean, the President is granted the power to pardon. By definition, anyone he or any other President pardons or will pardon would have broken a law.
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:02 PM   #4
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We don't need any stinking "laws" that violate our freedoms. Good for Trump. **** you big brother.
Hail ya.....Freedom to set shiat on fire!
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:11 PM   #5
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Burning off pasture land is an age old practice. Indians did it for thousands of years before white eyes who speak with forked tongue got here. Makes the grasses come back much better and sweeter. Livestock and wildlife benefit greatly. My grandpa burned his pastures about every 3 to 4 years. The ranch I hunt on out west does controlled burns in small 160 to 300 acre traps and those areas are always the greenest in spring. BLM is just a bunch of bureaucratic idiots for the most part. They could learn some from these ranchers if they weren't so stupid.
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:16 PM   #6
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Burning off pasture land is an age old practice. Indians did it for thousands of years before white eyes who speak with forked tongue got here. Makes the grasses come back much better and sweeter. Livestock and wildlife benefit greatly. My grandpa burned his pastures about every 3 to 4 years. The ranch I hunt on out west does controlled burns in small 160 to 300 acre traps and those areas are always the greenest in spring. BLM is just a bunch of bureaucratic idiots for the most part. They could learn some from these ranchers if they weren't so stupid.
yup...............
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:19 PM   #7
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The BLM is out of control. It needs to be defunded and those in charge need to be put on trial. Just as bad as the EPA.


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Old 07-10-2018, 03:28 PM   #8
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I mean, the President is granted the power to pardon. By definition, anyone he or any other President pardons or will pardon would have broken a law.
Or they were wrongly convicted and he is righting a wrong as perceived by the court of public opinion.
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:45 PM   #9
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Burning off pasture land is an age old practice. Indians did it for thousands of years before white eyes who speak with forked tongue got here. Makes the grasses come back much better and sweeter. Livestock and wildlife benefit greatly. My grandpa burned his pastures about every 3 to 4 years. The ranch I hunt on out west does controlled burns in small 160 to 300 acre traps and those areas are always the greenest in spring. BLM is just a bunch of bureaucratic idiots for the most part. They could learn some from these ranchers if they weren't so stupid.
Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid... And, you can't fix stupid either...

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The BLM is out of control. It needs to be defunded and those in charge need to be put on trial. Just as bad as the EPA.


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Dale Moser for president!! (... after the Donald is done with his 8 years)!!
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:54 PM   #10
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Just saw that on FOX news!
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The BLM is out of control. It needs to be defunded and those in charge need to be put on trial. Just as bad as the EPA.


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BLM is definitely needing to be tweaked. Secretary Zinke has not done what I was hoping for but hopefully he starts swinging an axe on those dim light bulbs that have taken over the department. Public lands and public land leases cannot be that hard to manage & administer.
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:57 PM   #11
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Just saw that on FOX news!

BLM is definitely needing to be tweaked. Secretary Zinke has not done what I was hoping for but hopefully he starts swinging an axe on those dim light bulbs that have taken over the department. Public lands and public land leases cannot be that hard to manage & administer.
In Europe most specifically the UK there are public lands are known as the commons. In no way are they the property of the govt. They are the property of the people and some are located in major urban areas and have been there for centuries or longer. The commons are common property and are even cared for by private citizens and groups and not the government. I would like to see our public lands truly become the lands of the public.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:07 PM   #12
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Or they were wrongly convicted and he is righting a wrong as perceived by the court of public opinion.
Can't disagree. Was just being a smart#$$ and pointing out that anyone being pardoned would have been convicted of breaking a law.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:48 PM   #13
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They were charged as domestic terrorists.

Hasan a Muslim that slaughtered American Troops on a base, while shouting Hola Snakbar. His crime -

the Defense Department currently classifies Hasan's attack as an act of workplace violence and would not make further statements until the court martial.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:58 PM   #14
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In Europe most specifically the UK there are public lands are known as the commons. In no way are they the property of the govt. They are the property of the people and some are located in major urban areas and have been there for centuries or longer. The commons are common property and are even cared for by private citizens and groups and not the government. I would like to see our public lands truly become the lands of the public.
You think Europe has a better public lands system than the US?
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:02 PM   #15
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You think Europe has a better public lands system than the US?
Oh god yes.
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:37 PM   #16
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Oh god yes.
What is so great about it? Can a regular person hunt, fish, camp, like you can on our public lands? Do you hunt on our public lands?

It is my understanding that it is very difficult for a common man in Europe to hunt the "Commons"
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:58 PM   #17
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What is so great about it? Can a regular person hunt, fish, camp, like you can on our public lands? Do you hunt on our public lands?

It is my understanding that it is very difficult for a common man in Europe to hunt the "Commons"
This is what we need that they have and its in many of their constitutions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:00 PM   #18
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Any of y'all looked up at these fellers activities prior to being convicted?

Some interesting stuff in the details.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:14 PM   #19
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" The jury also convicted Steven Hammond for a 2006 blaze that prosecutors said began when he started several back fires, violating a burn ban, to save his winter feed after lightning started numerous fires nearby." WTH?
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:18 PM   #20
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" The jury also convicted Steven Hammond for a 2006 blaze that prosecutors said began when he started several back fires, violating a burn ban, to save his winter feed after lightning started numerous fires nearby." WTH?


That's what you used to do...and everyone in that country, but the BLM understood that.


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Old 07-10-2018, 11:10 PM   #21
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This is what we need that they have and its in many of their constitutions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam
I'll take the hundreds of millions of acres of public land that I or any American can hunt, fish, camp on. That is definitely not the case in most of Europe
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:19 AM   #22
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I'll take the hundreds of millions of acres of public land that I or any American can hunt, fish, camp on. That is definitely not the case in most of Europe
You really thing you have true access to that land? They do.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:34 AM   #23
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" The jury also convicted Steven Hammond for a 2006 blaze that prosecutors said began when he started several back fires, violating a burn ban, to save his winter feed after lightning started numerous fires nearby." WTH?
I was looking more at this:

Here's how the Justice Department described Steven Hammond's actions, in a statement after he was resentenced:

"Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out 'Strike Anywhere' matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to 'light up the whole country on fire.' One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson."

Might be BS, just funny how this was never mentioned. Always Trumpers love it though!
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:08 AM   #24
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The 2001 Hardie-Hammond fire began after hunters in the area witnessed the Hammonds illegally slaughtering a herd of deer.

Does this make sense? If there were "hunters" in the area, then it must have been in season. I would guess it wasn't at night. How exactly did the Hammonds "illegally slaughter an entire heard of deers" ? I guess the Hammonds take a box of matches with them every time they go deer slaughtering ?

Last edited by batmaninja; 07-11-2018 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:22 AM   #25
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The 2001 Hardie-Hammond fire began after hunters in the area witnessed the Hammonds illegally slaughtering a herd of deer.

Does this make sense? If there were "hunters" in the area, then it must have been in season. I would guess it wasn't at night. How exactly did the Hammonds "illegally slaughter an entire heard of deers" ? I guess the Hammonds take a box of matches with them every time they go deer slaughtering ?
Probably PETA ''witnesses" lying under oath.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:23 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Dale Moser View Post
The BLM is out of control. It needs to be defunded and those in charge need to be put on trial. Just as bad as the EPA.


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Agreed. Funny how a good intention turns into a raging freaking monster.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:41 AM   #27
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Probably PETA ''witnesses" lying under oath.
"At trial, jurors heard from a hunting guide, a hunter and the hunter’s father, who saw the Hammonds illegally, slaughter a herd of deer on public land. At least seven deer were shot with others limping or running from the scene. Less than two hours later, the hunting guide and the hunter and his father, were forced to abandon their campsite because a fire was burning in the area where the deer had been shot. The hunting guide’s testimony and photographs established fires were burning hours before Steven Hammond called the BLM and said he was going to do a burn of invasive species in the area. "
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:52 AM   #28
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"At trial, jurors heard from a hunting guide, a hunter and the hunter’s father, who saw the Hammonds illegally, slaughter a herd of deer on public land. At least seven deer were shot with others limping or running from the scene. Less than two hours later, the hunting guide and the hunter and his father, were forced to abandon their campsite because a fire was burning in the area where the deer had been shot. The hunting guide’s testimony and photographs established fires were burning hours before Steven Hammond called the BLM and said he was going to do a burn of invasive species in the area. "
I'm throwing some chum out there in the water.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:36 AM   #29
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You really thing you have true access to that land? They do.
Yes I have true access. Going to go in a couple of weeks and camp and trout fish on our public lands in Colorado. Then going back in September to camp and hunt elk in Wyoming. I can go there any time of the year and camp or hike, weather permitting. I can hunt or fish anytime I have a license for the season. That is pretty true access.

I don't know many areas of Europe where a common man can go do all those things. If I'm wrong and there are, please post them up. I'd love to see them.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:43 AM   #30
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There is a lot more to the stories. The supposed poaching happened in 2001. The second fire happened in 2006. They got convicted in 2012, by my calculations that would be roughly 6 years after the second incident. Any idea why it took so long, I mean they had photos ?

The Hammonds were convicted in 2012 of setting fires that spread on government-managed land near their ranch. The elder Hammond was initially sentenced to three months in prison, while his son was ordered to a year and one day behind bars. But those sentences fell short of five-year minimums for arson committed against federal property. Prosecutors appealed, and the Hammonds were ordered to serve the full five-year terms.

In its statement Tuesday, the White House called the appeal "overzealous" and the resulting sentence "unjust."
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:46 AM   #31
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Yes I have true access. Going to go in a couple of weeks and camp and trout fish on our public lands in Colorado. Then going back in September to camp and hunt elk in Wyoming. I can go there any time of the year and camp or hike, weather permitting. I can hunt or fish anytime I have a license for the season. That is pretty true access.

I don't know many areas of Europe where a common man can go do all those things. If I'm wrong and there are, please post them up. I'd love to see them.
You can only go in there with their permission, by paying a fee and applying for a permit. You do not have the freedom to use those lands at all. You have permission from your government who is the true owner of the lands. You have no true access on your own.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:12 PM   #32
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Yes I have true access. Going to go in a couple of weeks and camp and trout fish on our public lands in Colorado. Then going back in September to camp and hunt elk in Wyoming. I can go there any time of the year and camp or hike, weather permitting. I can hunt or fish anytime I have a license for the season. That is pretty true access.

I don't know many areas of Europe where a common man can go do all those things. If I'm wrong and there are, please post them up. I'd love to see them.
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You can only go in there with their permission, by paying a fee and applying for a permit. You do not have the freedom to use those lands at all. You have permission from your government who is the true owner of the lands. You have no true access on your own.

I think there is a miscommunication here between land access and hunting/fishing rights. Both of you are correct, you are just talking about two different things.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:36 PM   #33
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You can only go in there with their permission, by paying a fee and applying for a permit. You do not have the freedom to use those lands at all. You have permission from your government who is the true owner of the lands. You have no true access on your own.
I don't have to pay a fee or buy a permit to access our public lands that I use. I can go any time. I have to have a license to hunt or fish. Not sure what you are referring to.

Still waiting to hear about the same access and privelages in Europe
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:42 PM   #34
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I don't have to pay a fee or buy a permit to access our public lands that I use. I can go any time. I have to have a license to hunt or fish. Not sure what you are referring to.

Still waiting to hear about the same access and privelages in Europe
Robin Hood story proved your point on European access/privileges.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:53 PM   #35
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I'm throwing some chum out there in the water.
Something fishy in the water for sure. Maybe it is over now.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:59 PM   #36
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Something fishy in the water for sure. Maybe it is over now.
Ya always gotta question the motives of free-grazers!

I know there are a lot of Bundy supporters on this site. That was another interesting story in itself.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:02 PM   #37
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I don't have to pay a fee or buy a permit to access our public lands that I use. I can go any time. I have to have a license to hunt or fish. Not sure what you are referring to.

Still waiting to hear about the same access and privelages in Europe
From a UK website:

Exclusions and restrictions on public access

There are some general restrictions on the use of access land. These are as follows:
•the right of access is confined to access by foot (there are exceptions for invalid carriages and for vessels and sailboards on tidal waters);
•the right of access includes the right to be accompanied by a dog but not by any other type of animal. However, between 1 March and 31 July dogs must be kept on a short lead (of not more than 2 metres) and dogs must also be kept on a short lead whatever the time of year if they are in the vicinity of livestock;
•there is no right to commit a criminal offence;
•there is no right to light or tend a fire or do any act which is likely to cause a fire;
•intentionally or recklessly taking, killing, injuring or disturbing an animal, bird or fish is prohibited;
•intentionally or recklessly taking, damaging or destroying an egg or nest is prohibited;
•feeding livestock is prohibited;
•bathing in non-tidal water is prohibited;
•hunting, shooting, fishing, trapping, snaring, taking and destroying animals, birds and fish is prohibited as is having any engine, instrument or apparatus for such purposes;
•using or having a metal detector is prohibited;
•intentionally removing, damaging and destroying plants, shrubs, trees and roots and parts of the same is prohibited;
•obstructing the flow of a drain or watercourse or opening, shutting or interfering with a sluice-gate or other apparatus is prohibited;
•interfering with a fence, barrier or other device designed to prevent accidents to people or to enclose livestock, without reasonable excuse, is prohibited;
•there is a requirement to shut any gates and to fasten them where any means of doing so as provided, except where it is reasonable to assume that a gate is intended to be left open;
•affixing or writing an advertisement, bill, placard or notice is prohibited;
•intimidating, disturbing and annoying other people who are engaging in or are about to engage in a lawful activity or obstructing or disrupting that activity is prohibited;
•engaging in any organised games, camping, hang-gliding and para-gliding is prohibited;
•engaging in any activity which is organised or undertaken for any commercial purpose is prohibited.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:21 PM   #38
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Ya always gotta question the motives of free-grazers!
Remember the guy on the other side of the table?

You run out of chum Phillip? Maybe see if you can grab some turtles for the chumcicle?
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:27 PM   #39
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Remember the guy on the other side of the table?

You run out of chum Phillip? Maybe see if you can grab some turtles for the chumcicle?
If I run out I'll borrow some from you.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:36 PM   #40
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Remember the guy on the other side of the table?

You run out of chum Phillip? Maybe see if you can grab some turtles for the chumcicle?
Who's that? Who's Phillip? Who wooped his arse?
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:33 PM   #41
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I think there is a miscommunication here between land access and hunting/fishing rights. Both of you are correct, you are just talking about two different things.
You nailed it.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:57 PM   #42
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You nailed it.
No y'all didn't. US public lands and European public lands are vastly different. The US has millions upon millions of acres of public land that any American (or European for that matter) can recreate on....with no fee or permit. We can go any time of year without asking permission. You can hike, bike, camp, fish, hunt (with proper license), bird watch, shoot guns, shoot bows, etc...

How you think the European public lands are better is beyond me. As someone mentioned earlier about Robin Hood....the elite own most of the land and the game animals in Europe. It is not the public land paradise that you think it is.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:54 PM   #43
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No y'all didn't. US public lands and European public lands are vastly different. The US has millions upon millions of acres of public land that any American (or European for that matter) can recreate on....with no fee or permit. We can go any time of year without asking permission. You can hike, bike, camp, fish, hunt (with proper license), bird watch, shoot guns, shoot bows, etc...

How you think the European public lands are better is beyond me. As someone mentioned earlier about Robin Hood....the elite own most of the land and the game animals in Europe. It is not the public land paradise that you think it is.
Not going to read it, give it a rest. It really isn't that important and its subjective so there is no way to reconcile.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:55 PM   #44
batmaninja
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The guy in the picture is a senator, who keeps getting his butt whooped by his exercise equipment.

Phillip is the guy copying and pasting articles on this thread, without any commentary.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:10 PM   #45
Traildust
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The guy in the picture is a senator, who keeps getting his butt whooped by his exercise equipment.

Phillip is the guy copying and pasting articles on this thread, without any commentary.
Dam.....that Total Gym whooped Harry's arse.... didn't even recognize him
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:17 PM   #46
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European wildlife is largely privatized. A much smaller number of hunters are conditioned to pay more dearly for their passion than we in North America. Our forefathers set things up differently. After the excesses of the pioneering era, American wildlife was in tattered remnants. It was a long road back, and we were fortunate to have Theodore Roosevelt leading the charge. Roosevelt believed, and stated, that hunters and anglers should bear the brunt of funding for wildlife management and conservation and this is how our system, the “North American Model” of wildlife conservation and management, was set up and has evolved. We believe that wildlife is a public trust resource, held in stewardship by all. We also believe in democracy of hunting and fishing, that all citizens in good standing, subject to licensing and sensible harvest goals, should have access to the resource. It is these two principles that have created this largest hunting public on Earth, with relatively free access to tens of millions of acres of public land.
In return, as Roosevelt envisioned, we sportsmen and women foot the brunt of the bill for wildlife management. Our hunting and fishing licenses provide the basic funding for state agencies, but it was recognized many years ago that this wasn’t enough. The Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Act, known as the Pittman-Robertson Act, passed into law in 1937, places a hefty 11 percent federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition. It was amended in 1975 to include bows, arrows and archery tackle. In 1950, a similar tax was added to fishing tackle. Passed on to state wildlife and fishery departments by the federal government, these taxes have raised billions of dollars for wildlife management. This, too, has never been enough, but American hunters also donate around a billion dollars annually to private conservation groups. Those groups obviously include our own Safari Club International and Foundation, but the list of pro-hunting conservation groups is long and varied.
On this continent we, the hunting and fishing public, provide the bulk of the funding so that wildlife can be enjoyed by all — hikers, bikers, boaters, photographers, anti-hunters, everyone. If not us, then who? Our system, funded by us, has developed over the past century, and in that time has restored our wildlife from rags to riches: Pronghorns from 5,000 with extinction predicted to more than a million; wild turkeys from 100,000 to seven million; whitetail deer from a half-million to 32 million; elk from 41,000 to more than a million. Our system has worked and is working…and there is no alternative funding.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:32 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by J Sweet View Post
Not going to read it, give it a rest. It really isn't that important and its subjective so there is no way to reconcile.
Don't talk about the European system being so great if you don't know the facts.

It really is very important. People in our state don't understand the importance because we have very little public land. Our state already sold most all of our public land to the highest bidder. Now we pay $2,500 a gun to go shoot 100" deer if we can find a decent lease.

Folks out west (or whoever wants to travel) can hunt for only the cost of a tag, on millions of acres our American public lands. It needs to stay public and not be given to the states to sell off. We have the best public lands system on earth. Thanks to Teddy Roosevelt for the vision had. Otherwise we would likely be on the TX birdwatchers forum right now arguing about politics.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:40 PM   #48
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I was looking more at this:

Here's how the Justice Department described Steven Hammond's actions, in a statement after he was resentenced:

"Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out 'Strike Anywhere' matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to 'light up the whole country on fire.' One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson."

Might be BS, just funny how this was never mentioned. Always Trumpers love it though!
a lot of drama around that family. I understand agricultural practices and customs but it appears they were sideways with BLM for decades. BLM has issues which we all agree, but it seems the family was determined to do it their way. Kongrats on the pardon!
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"At trial, jurors heard from a hunting guide, a hunter and the hunter’s father, who saw the Hammonds illegally, slaughter a herd of deer on public land. At least seven deer were shot with others limping or running from the scene. Less than two hours later, the hunting guide and the hunter and his father, were forced to abandon their campsite because a fire was burning in the area where the deer had been shot. The hunting guide’s testimony and photographs established fires were burning hours before Steven Hammond called the BLM and said he was going to do a burn of invasive species in the area. "
wow!
Oh well, the pardon is done and that is our presidents prerogative......since George Washington's days and the Whiskey Rebellion. Over the eon's there have been tons of odd pardons.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:58 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Landrover View Post
[B] It is these two principles that have created this largest hunting public on Earth, with relatively free access to tens of millions of acres of public land.
But what if the feds start taking back the land?

When the U.S. government declared the Mojave desert tortoise an endangered species in 1989, it effectively marked the cattle ranchers of Nevada's Clark County for extinction. When the tortoise was listed in 1989, Las Vegas, the county seat, was one of the fastest-growing U.S. cities. For Vegas to spread even an inch farther into the tortoise-filled desert risked a federal offense under the Endangered Species Act.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:08 PM   #50
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But what if the feds start taking back the land?



When the U.S. government declared the Mojave desert tortoise an endangered species in 1989, it effectively marked the cattle ranchers of Nevada's Clark County for extinction. When the tortoise was listed in 1989, Las Vegas, the county seat, was one of the fastest-growing U.S. cities. For Vegas to spread even an inch farther into the tortoise-filled desert risked a federal offense under the Endangered Species Act.

That's exactly what the BLM and EPA are trying to do.



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