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Old 06-18-2018, 10:44 AM   #1
Gclyde28
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Default High FOC Arrow Build ?'s

Hoping to get some advice from anyone with one of the arrow building programs for an arrow build I am going to start.

Shooting a Mathews halon 32-7 with 30.5 inch draw at 70 pounds. The shortest arrow I can use will be about 29” carbon to carbon. (Possibly 28.5” if I drop down to 30" draw, I can shoot both lengths comfortably)

I want to try to get to 20% FOC which I know will be tough at my draw length. Looking at going with black eagle x impacts or possibly gold tip kinetic pierce platinums unless anyone has a better suggestion. I like the idea of the micro diameter arrow.

Was looking at either the black eagle 42 grain outsert or the Valkyrie archery 56 grain stainless outsert system. And then either a 200 grain or 250 grain broadhead, whichever would be needed to try to get to 20%. Also likely going with a 4 fletch set up to help steer these heavy fixed blade heads. Would like a lighted knock since they will be used for hunting purposes but will sacrifice that for a standard nock if you think it will make a large enough difference.

TIA for any advice
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:33 PM   #2
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I’m sure one of the tuning people will be along soon. But also send muddyfuzzy a pm, he’s got a lot of knowledge especially on black eagles
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:49 PM   #3
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Find the tuning post by enewman. Lots of great info
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:51 PM   #4
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I sent enewman a PM but his program has been messed up since his last windows update. Also just sent a PM to muddyfuzzy to get his opinion on the build.
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:54 PM   #5
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I've had a hard time figuring out what works together I wish someone would make a calculator to plan a build.

I'm thinking, VAP TKO's, Ethics Archery Outserts, RMS Cutthroats, and lighted nocs.
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Old 06-18-2018, 03:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnyart View Post
I've had a hard time figuring out what works together I wish someone would make a calculator to plan a build.

I'm thinking, VAP TKO's, Ethics Archery Outserts, RMS Cutthroats, and lighted nocs.
Goldtip used to have one on their site.
Using their arrows and such.
Haven't looked at it in awhile
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Old 06-18-2018, 03:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gclyde28 View Post
Hoping to get some advice from anyone with one of the arrow building programs for an arrow build I am going to start.

Shooting a Mathews halon 32-7 with 30.5 inch draw at 70 pounds. The shortest arrow I can use will be about 29” carbon to carbon. (Possibly 28.5” if I drop down to 30" draw, I can shoot both lengths comfortably)

I want to try to get to 20% FOC which I know will be tough at my draw length. Looking at going with black eagle x impacts or possibly gold tip kinetic pierce platinums unless anyone has a better suggestion. I like the idea of the micro diameter arrow.

Was looking at either the black eagle 42 grain outsert or the Valkyrie archery 56 grain stainless outsert system. And then either a 200 grain or 250 grain broadhead, whichever would be needed to try to get to 20%. Also likely going with a 4 fletch set up to help steer these heavy fixed blade heads. Would like a lighted knock since they will be used for hunting purposes but will sacrifice that for a standard nock if you think it will make a large enough difference.

TIA for any advice
My pig arrows are 17.454% I think.
I'll get the actual when I get home.

My draws 31.25 or 31.5”

I'm running GT Warrior arrows in 340 spine

Factory Fletching

100 grain insert
50 grain screw in weight
100 grain Grim reader Hog head
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Old 06-18-2018, 03:31 PM   #8
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Here's a thread that had lots of info when I started on my FOC journey

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...5&share_type=t
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnyart View Post
I've had a hard time figuring out what works together I wish someone would make a calculator to plan a build.

I'm thinking, VAP TKO's, Ethics Archery Outserts, RMS Cutthroats, and lighted nocs.
Never heard of these but initially I'm really liking the idea. Could stick with much more standard broad heads and still get the heavy weight up front. Didn't think I had much of an option for this for a micro diameter arrow.
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:59 AM   #10
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Well ive tried to send muddyfuzzy two different PM's but neither are showing up in my sent mail so I dont think they are going through. Hopefully he'll see this thread and chime in.

Anyone else think 250 spine x-impacts will have stiff enough spine to carry that much weight up front?
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Old 06-19-2018, 02:01 PM   #11
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Here's the work up.

As you will see, the chart will show a little weak, but these arrows will work great for what you are doing.

You will not need the four fletch to steer the big broadheads, the more FOC you have the less steerage you need. However, they do help with the dynamic spine in your case, as do the Nockturnals.

Arrow Spec's.

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Spine Spec's.

On this page look at Ideal Spine and Actual Spine, that is the difference in what you will be shooting and what it should be based on the math. It is impossible to get an arrow perfect, almost, but as a rule most of my HFOC or EFOC arrows are weak spine.

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IOW, your arrow will be fine, build them and shoot them.

Last edited by Rat; 06-19-2018 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 06-19-2018, 02:13 PM   #12
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Also, you are very close to a .200 spine in the ideal spine, if it were me, I would get a half dozen of each and build them, see which size shot best, and then use those.

My bet would be that both sizes will shoot great, but that's what I would do.
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:04 PM   #13
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Rat is that an app you can download? What's it called?
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:25 PM   #14
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Rat is that an app you can download? What's it called?
No, it's not an app, it's a program, runs on Windows. It's called The Archery Program Pro, TAP Pro for short.

He has three programs:
TAP Pro
TAPes
Spinal TAP

Spinal TAP is just for arrow building.
TAPes is just for making tapes.
TAP Pro has it all.

http://www.thearcheryprogram.com/products
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Old 06-19-2018, 06:36 PM   #15
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I am shooting the GT Kentic Pierce 400 just for that very reason. I currently have about 13% FOC with 27 1/4" shaft, 100 gr. FT, wrap and blazer vanes. I improved the FOC about 5% with 3" fletch and left off the wrap and could have increased the percentage even more if I had gone to 125 gr. points. The outsert helps tremendously with built in FOC just by default. These are some tough arrows even by GT standards. Just my $.02, good luck.
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Old 06-20-2018, 03:40 AM   #16
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I'm running a Black Eagle Carnivore 350 at 29 inches with a brass insert and two 30 grain screw in insert weights. On top of that is a 125 grain broad head.

I don't recall the exact arrow weight but FOC is 20 or 21% with a lighted nock and 3 Blazers.
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Old 06-20-2018, 05:21 AM   #17
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I use archers advantage to build my arrows and have been very pleased with the results. You can download this program to your computer or use the web based app. Very handy tool
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:28 AM   #18
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I'm trying out Archer's Advantage, I tried it years ago and wasn't very happy, but I'm willing to see if I like it any better now. This will also be a good place to compare what I know I like (TAP Pro) to AA.

Here is your arrow and bow in AA Gunnyart:

Arrow spec's: This is with 300 gr up front, 3 Blazer vanes and a lighted nock.

This arrow spine seems like it would be weak to me just based on using TAP Pro for so many years. That's one of the reasons I went with TAP Pro back in the day, it seemed like he had a better grasp of dynamic spine and a better drag formula. I guess we will see.

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This is the bow's spec's I used.

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Old 06-20-2018, 11:31 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat View Post
I'm trying out Archer's Advantage, I tried it years ago and wasn't very happy, but I'm willing to see if I like it any better now. This will also be a good place to compare what I know I like (TAP Pro) to AA.

Here is your arrow and bow in AA Gunnyart:

Arrow spec's: This is with 300 gr up front, 3 Blazer vanes and a lighted nock.

This arrow spine seems like it would be weak to me just based on using TAP Pro for so many years. That's one of the reasons I went with TAP Pro back in the day, it seemed like he had a better grasp of dynamic spine and a better drag formula. I guess we will see.

Attachment 912311

This is the bow's spec's I used.

Attachment 912312
Would it be correct to assume going to a 300 spine wouldn't hurt?
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:31 AM   #20
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Here is the same shaft in .400 spine. You could add length to the .350 spine shaft and get it perfect based on AA.

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Old 06-20-2018, 11:32 AM   #21
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Now I'm confused!
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:34 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnyart View Post
Would it be correct to assume going to a 300 spine wouldn't hurt?
Wouldn't hurt at all, better to start a little stiff and use weight or length to get the optimum spine.

This one shows a 28.5 inch arrow in .350 spine that is optimum based on AA. This where I would start and then tune the arrow. Remember, these programs are just a good place to start, tuning the arrow will still need to be done.

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Old 06-20-2018, 11:36 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnyart View Post
Now I'm confused!
Don't be confused, I was just showing that the .400 spine is very weak compared to the .350 spine and that changing the arrow shaft will be the only way to get optimum spine according to AA.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:43 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat View Post
Don't be confused, I was just showing that the .400 spine is very weak compared to the .350 spine and that changing the arrow shaft will be the only way to get optimum spine according to AA.
Oh Okay. Thanks
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Old 06-22-2018, 12:34 PM   #25
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Something is wrong with that AA setup. You’re shooting my specs (30.5 at 70 with a 29” shaft). You’re never going to get away with a 350 spine arrow especially with that much point weight. 260 spine is as weak a shaft as you’re likely to get away with.

AA can be buggy sometimes and give weird results. I’d start over with a new build and see what the results are.
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:33 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dk_ace View Post
Something is wrong with that AA setup. You’re shooting my specs (30.5 at 70 with a 29” shaft). You’re never going to get away with a 350 spine arrow especially with that much point weight. 260 spine is as weak a shaft as you’re likely to get away with.

AA can be buggy sometimes and give weird results. I’d start over with a new build and see what the results are.
Those aren't his specs at all, not even close...

But, I an running the TAP Pro numbers right now for comparison to AA; so stand by Gunnyart, let's see how AA stacks up...
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:53 AM   #27
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Here is the same build from TAP Pro. As you will see, TAP Pro recommends a much stiffer arrow; as I thought when we first ran it in AA and as dk_ace pointed out yesterday.


Tap Pro...

I changed it just a tad, I use a 75 gr insert on this arrow to get a better ideal spine.As you can see in this image it is still North of 20% FOC.

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Here is the spine break down, notice that we are very close to the ideal spine with the 275 gr of total tip weight, also, this is with the lighted nocks.

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Old 06-23-2018, 10:18 AM   #28
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Your (almost) perfect arrow Gunnyart...

I changes the length a little, I changed the tip weight a little and I used a Gold Tip Kinetic .200. As you can see, it is very close to perfect according to TAP Pro.

This is the arrow I would build. It doesn't have to be a Gold Tip, but a .200 spine is what you need. This also gets you the 250 gr a broadhead you wanted with an FOC still North of 20%.

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Last edited by Rat; 06-23-2018 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:29 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat View Post
Those aren't his specs at all, not even close...

But, I an running the TAP Pro numbers right now for comparison to AA; so stand by Gunnyart, let's see how AA stacks up...
I think what happened here is you’re running gunnyart’s specs in gclyde’s thread. I thought you were posting arrow specs for gclyde, the OP, who shoots my specs. I don’t see gunnyart’s specs in this thread unless I just overlooked them somewhere.

I’ve been curious to try TAP. I like AA, but sometimes it does weird stuff that gets on my nerves. I’ve put in exactly the same setup twice and gotten very different results. Fortunately, I’ve done this enough to know that the first result wasn’t right.

D
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:53 AM   #30
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We’ll crap. I just ordered some 350 spined VAP TKO Gamers. I may need to file the poundage back to make them work.
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:49 PM   #31
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We’ll crap. I just ordered some 350 spined VAP TKO Gamers. I may need to file the poundage back to make them work.
Maybe, maybe not; that's the thing with running higher FOC, as you can see in this thread even, many people get away with using a spine that SHOULD be way too weak. But it works.

Even out of my Prime I can run a .350 spine and I am using a .300 spine right now. Everything says that should be way too weak, but they bareshaft, nock tuned and group tuned like champs. The .350 do as well I just have to play with cam sync a little.

I'm not filly sold on Archer's Advantage yet, maybe it is me, maybe not; but I get very consistent results out of TAP Pro.
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:54 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dk_ace View Post
I think what happened here is you’re running gunnyart’s specs in gclyde’s thread. I thought you were posting arrow specs for gclyde, the OP, who shoots my specs. I don’t see gunnyart’s specs in this thread unless I just overlooked them somewhere.

I’ve been curious to try TAP. I like AA, but sometimes it does weird stuff that gets on my nerves. I’ve put in exactly the same setup twice and gotten very different results. Fortunately, I’ve done this enough to know that the first result wasn’t right.

D
I see. The only place Gunnyart's are posted is in the AA image of his bow's spec's.

Tap Pro has been great for many years, but he still hasn't updated the database for 2018 yet, so I am looking around for another one. I hope the platform will be supported for a long time, but just in case I'm trying others again.

I guess OT2 is next...
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Old 06-23-2018, 03:32 PM   #33
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I checked my peak again and got 60# and I wouldn’t mind dropping down another 5 to make it work if needed.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:54 PM   #34
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Black Eagle Carnivores .250 cut to 27 3/4" carbon to carbon with 150 grains rear insert weights, regular insert, Blazers and 125 grain point. 19+ % FOC at 595 grains. I shoot a 29" draw @70#'s.
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Old 06-30-2018, 09:31 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat View Post
I see. The only place Gunnyart's are posted is in the AA image of his bow's spec's.

Tap Pro has been great for many years, but he still hasn't updated the database for 2018 yet, so I am looking around for another one. I hope the platform will be supported for a long time, but just in case I'm trying others again.

I guess OT2 is next...


Would you mind running my set up.

I have zero issues with my current set up but its interesting for sure

Arrow Da Torch 400 7.2 GPI shaft is 27.5 6 mm RPS insert press in 6 mm nock Running Slick trick 4 blade 100 grain .

Bow Hoyt carbon fiber SPYDER shooting 63 lbs I do not recall what the chrono read sorry .

As far as the setup goes its lights out accurate and last deer was a big mule deer in Co at 48 yards . pass through and it had the arrow buried in the berm behind the deer another 10 yards about 6 inches into the dirt .

however if it can be better all for that . maybe a broad head weight change .. I like the arrows and they are pricey WHeww
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Old 06-30-2018, 10:00 AM   #36
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Step one arrived yesterday. They sure is purdy.
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Old 06-30-2018, 11:22 AM   #37
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Would you mind running my set up.

I have zero issues with my current set up but its interesting for sure

Arrow Da Torch 400 7.2 GPI shaft is 27.5 6 mm RPS insert press in 6 mm nock Running Slick trick 4 blade 100 grain .

Bow Hoyt carbon fiber SPYDER shooting 63 lbs I do not recall what the chrono read sorry .

As far as the setup goes its lights out accurate and last deer was a big mule deer in Co at 48 yards . pass through and it had the arrow buried in the berm behind the deer another 10 yards about 6 inches into the dirt .

however if it can be better all for that . maybe a broad head weight change .. I like the arrows and they are pricey WHeww
What vanes and what draw length on the bow? What Carbon Spyder; Turbo, 30 or 34?

What are you looking for, just options? I don't think you will have many with .400 arrows and it sound like they are performing well.

I will show you what you have now and then mock up one or two for you to consider.

Last edited by Rat; 06-30-2018 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 06-30-2018, 11:30 AM   #38
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28 inch draw vanes are easton blazers 3 of them I cam up with like 12 % but not sure I am doing it correctly .

Options to improve upon the set up is never a bad thing .. And hunting elk again this year so it if can get better I am all for it .

yes currently its doing great but until you try the next thing you cannot compare the two .

in my world its about dyno tuning guys say it runs great then they have me tune it and well they know what great really is .. Not patting myself on the back 25 years doing this so I get the comparison deal
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Old 06-30-2018, 11:38 AM   #39
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What about going with the full valkyrie system, use the brass insert for an extra 75 grains along with a 250 gram head and your pretty close if my numbers are right.
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Old 06-30-2018, 12:10 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDWRENCH View Post
28 inch draw vanes are easton blazers 3 of them I cam up with like 12 % but not sure I am doing it correctly .

Options to improve upon the set up is never a bad thing .. And hunting elk again this year so it if can get better I am all for it .

yes currently its doing great but until you try the next thing you cannot compare the two .

in my world its about dyno tuning guys say it runs great then they have me tune it and well they know what great really is .. Not patting myself on the back 25 years doing this so I get the comparison deal
I'm going to start a thread for you HDWrench, post will up shortly.
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Old 07-02-2018, 11:11 AM   #41
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Got my test kit in from Valkyrie Archery. You send them your bow specs and they send out two different spine arrows and 3 field tip weights.

Bow specs for the testing were as follows:

Halon 32 with 7" Brace Height
85% Mods
30" Draw Length
Limbs cranked all the way down have draw weight pulling at 67.5 lbs.

They sent me a 300 spine arrow and a 250 spine arrow, both with 22 grain outserts and then included a 200, 225, and 250 grain tips. Total arrow length from base of knock to tip of outsert is 29-5/8". Both arrows were fletched with 4 aae pro max vanes and had standard nocks

Arrow weights without tips, the 300 spine arrow was 284 grains and the 250 spine arrow was 320 grains. I did not verify these weights but these were the numbers written in sharpie on the shaft from Valkyrie.

I shot the different combos a bunch the past couple days but only out to 30 yards. Haven't gotten to stretch them out at distance or run any arrows through a chrono just yet to see how the speeds plays out but I liked the feel of the 250 spine with the 250 grain head which should come in at 570 grains. This combination had an FOC of 21.72% and paper tuned nicely.

Hopefully I can make it up to Archery Country this week sometime to run this combo through the chronograph and see where we actually are sitting but initially I didnt see a noticeable difference in arrow drop from 20-30 yards between this new heavy high FOC setup and my previous Easton fmjs with standard inserts and 100 grain tips.
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Old 07-02-2018, 11:52 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Gclyde28 View Post
Got my test kit in from Valkyrie Archery. You send them your bow specs and they send out two different spine arrows and 3 field tip weights.

Bow specs for the testing were as follows:

Halon 32 with 7" Brace Height
85% Mods
30" Draw Length
Limbs cranked all the way down have draw weight pulling at 67.5 lbs.

They sent me a 300 spine arrow and a 250 spine arrow, both with 22 grain outserts and then included a 200, 225, and 250 grain tips. Total arrow length from base of knock to tip of outsert is 29-5/8". Both arrows were fletched with 4 aae pro max vanes and had standard nocks

Arrow weights without tips, the 300 spine arrow was 284 grains and the 250 spine arrow was 320 grains. I did not verify these weights but these were the numbers written in sharpie on the shaft from Valkyrie.

I shot the different combos a bunch the past couple days but only out to 30 yards. Haven't gotten to stretch them out at distance or run any arrows through a chrono just yet to see how the speeds plays out but I liked the feel of the 250 spine with the 250 grain head which should come in at 570 grains. This combination had an FOC of 21.72% and paper tuned nicely.

Hopefully I can make it up to Archery Country this week sometime to run this combo through the chronograph and see where we actually are sitting but initially I didnt see a noticeable difference in arrow drop from 20-30 yards between this new heavy high FOC setup and my previous Easton fmjs with standard inserts and 100 grain tips.
Sounds like you are on the right track. Please keep me updated so I can compare the three archery programs to what works best for you. I keep a database of these things so I can see what happens in the real world versus what happens in ballistic programs.

That thing is going to be a killer for sure.
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Old 07-02-2018, 01:06 PM   #43
dk_ace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gclyde28 View Post
Got my test kit in from Valkyrie Archery. You send them your bow specs and they send out two different spine arrows and 3 field tip weights.

Bow specs for the testing were as follows:

Halon 32 with 7" Brace Height
85% Mods
30" Draw Length
Limbs cranked all the way down have draw weight pulling at 67.5 lbs.

They sent me a 300 spine arrow and a 250 spine arrow, both with 22 grain outserts and then included a 200, 225, and 250 grain tips. Total arrow length from base of knock to tip of outsert is 29-5/8". Both arrows were fletched with 4 aae pro max vanes and had standard nocks

Arrow weights without tips, the 300 spine arrow was 284 grains and the 250 spine arrow was 320 grains. I did not verify these weights but these were the numbers written in sharpie on the shaft from Valkyrie.

I shot the different combos a bunch the past couple days but only out to 30 yards. Haven't gotten to stretch them out at distance or run any arrows through a chrono just yet to see how the speeds plays out but I liked the feel of the 250 spine with the 250 grain head which should come in at 570 grains. This combination had an FOC of 21.72% and paper tuned nicely.

Hopefully I can make it up to Archery Country this week sometime to run this combo through the chronograph and see where we actually are sitting but initially I didnt see a noticeable difference in arrow drop from 20-30 yards between this new heavy high FOC setup and my previous Easton fmjs with standard inserts and 100 grain tips.
Sounds like a cool experiment, look forward to hearing the results.

For the speed test, I’d suggest you shoot at long distances and see how much more the heavier arrows drop in addition to looking at chrono numbers. I find that to be a little more helpful/meaningful as long as I know my setup is in a generally acceptable range.

Those sound like pretty lightweight arrows, you might shoot them at something hard too and make sure they aren’t going to break on a hard impact (shoulder bone).

D
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Old 07-02-2018, 02:06 PM   #44
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Step two. Just need the nocks and then it’s off to the bow shop. Name:  6ACAC0CE-5324-4AF2-84D9-566C9B08A833.jpg
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Old 07-02-2018, 03:54 PM   #45
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Looking good. As long as my test arrow isn't flying incredibly slow, I think I'm going to go with the all stainless and cut down the pin to match the weight of my test arrow with a 125 grain head that way I will have a larger selection of broadheads should I want to switch. I think I'm going to order some Iron Will 125's to try out first after I finish getting the arrows built.
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:19 AM   #46
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Should I start my own thread? I have questions about testing methodologies.

What is the basic procedure for determining how much point weight my shaft can handle?
With a bare shaft everything from the 75-300 grain point seems to be flying about the same.
(310 grain arrow with no point or fletchings for total weight between 385 and 610)
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:57 AM   #47
dk_ace
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Originally Posted by Gunnyart View Post
Should I start my own thread? I have questions about testing methodologies.

What is the basic procedure for determining how much point weight my shaft can handle?
With a bare shaft everything from the 75-300 grain point seems to be flying about the same.
(310 grain arrow with no point or fletchings for total weight between 385 and 610)
For determining point weight, shoot groups at the longest range you can hold a good group at and see which one groups the best. The one that groups the best is the one where you’re arrow spine, shaft length, bow, and point weight are working together optimally.

I doubt they are flying the same, the heavier points should be slower and hitting lower. Do you mean they are hitting the same horizontally? That is to be expected as compounds show spine issues vertically and not horizontally typically. If you’re reading about people bareshaft tuning traditional bows shot with fingers off the shelf, those rigs will show spine mismatches horizontally because of the forces applied to the arrow as it is shot off the shelf. You won’t see that same thing with a compound. You will probably be able to see the effects of point weight on the spine by shooting through paper at about 3 yards. As the spine breaks down with heavier point weight, you should see a vertical tear appear and/or become worse.

This paper exercise is just to show you what is happening in a way that should largely exclude the arrow weight difference and show you what is happening with the shaft. I’d shoot whatever shaft and weight combo grouped the best with the broadheads I wanted to shoot at a speed I was happy with regardless of what the paper exercise looked like. I would expect the one that shot best through paper to shoot the best at distance, but I wouldn’t care if they didn’t.

D
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:01 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dk_ace View Post
For determining point weight, shoot groups at the longest range you can hold a good group at and see which one groups the best. The one that groups the best is the one where you’re arrow spine, shaft length, bow, and point weight are working together optimally.

I doubt they are flying the same, the heavier points should be slower and hitting lower. Do you mean they are hitting the same horizontally? That is to be expected as compounds show spine issues vertically and not horizontally typically. If you’re reading about people bareshaft tuning traditional bows shot with fingers off the shelf, those rigs will show spine mismatches horizontally because of the forces applied to the arrow as it is shot off the shelf. You won’t see that same thing with a compound. You will probably be able to see the effects of point weight on the spine by shooting through paper at about 3 yards. As the spine breaks down with heavier point weight, you should see a vertical tear appear and/or become worse.

This paper exercise is just to show you what is happening in a way that should largely exclude the arrow weight difference and show you what is happening with the shaft. I’d shoot whatever shaft and weight combo grouped the best with the broadheads I wanted to shoot at a speed I was happy with regardless of what the paper exercise looked like. I would expect the one that shot best through paper to shoot the best at distance, but I wouldn’t care if they didn’t.

D
Thanks. I've only shot one at 10 yards so far because I wasn't sure they would track well enough without fletchings. I'll build a few more and group check them at distance.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:29 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Gunnyart View Post
Thanks. I've only shot one at 10 yards so far because I wasn't sure they would track well enough without fletchings. I'll build a few more and group check them at distance.
If you are talking about bareshafts, it is very difficult to shoot bareshafts accurately at long distance. It requires essentially perfect shot execution or else you won’t know if the grouping issues are the result of a spine mismatch or less than perfect shooting.

Most people would be better served by shooting the one bareshaft close range at paper with the different points to see how they effect the arrow shaft. Then with that knowledge fletch up a bunch and start shooting fletched arrows at distance. The paper exercise could just as easily be done with fletched shafts for that matter as it won’t matter at 3 yards.

D
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:17 PM   #50
Gclyde28
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Originally Posted by Rat View Post
Sounds like you are on the right track. Please keep me updated so I can compare the three archery programs to what works best for you. I keep a database of these things so I can see what happens in the real world versus what happens in ballistic programs.

That thing is going to be a killer for sure.
Final Specs on the arrow build:

Black Eagle X Impact 250 Spine
305 Grains total front weight
- Ethics Archery Stainless Steel Outserts 180 Grains
- 125 Grain Field Points / Iron Will 125 Grain Solid Broadheads
4 fletched with AAE Pro Max Vanes
Standard Nocks

Total weight +/- 611 grains
Chrono is still broken at Archery Country but Archers Advantage estimates roughly 270 fps
FOC is 21.73%
Momentum of 73.25 slug ft/sec
Kinetic Energy of 98.89 ft lbs.

After a couple clicks on the micro adjust QAD, the field tips, bare shafts, and Iron Will Broadheads are all grouping together out to 27 yards (as far as I can reach in the back yard).




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