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Old 06-26-2018, 04:10 PM   #1
txtrophy85
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Ideal Arrow weight for Deer, Mule Deer, Elk in a western situation?

Im shooting a 390 grain currently, bein gtold a 410-420 is where I need to be for mule deer and elk.



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Old 06-26-2018, 06:36 PM   #2
muddyfuzzy
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450 to 500 grains will perform great on any NA game.


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Old 06-26-2018, 06:40 PM   #3
stickerpatch59
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heavier the better, more penetration.
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:00 PM   #4
critter69
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Tried to post this earlier but don't look as though it worked. I used to shoot 420gr. and now shoot 480gr. I don't think you will notice a bit of differance between 390gr. and 420 gr. I used to get 95 percent or better pass throughs with 420 gr. ( and lighter) and I still get about 95 + . I do notice it's quieter so I will continue to shoot 480- 500 gr. Until I get a hair to try something else.
If you shoot gold tip arrows ( some others offer them also) they make a fact weight system for them. They are little weights that screw into the back of your insert. They sell a long Allen wrench and you just remove the nock and screw in a weight or two or three. You don't have to worry about regluing nocks, or damaging the shaft. It super easy to add and subtract the weights, and it's never permanent ( unless you glue them in or something) I have them in 20 gr. and 50 gr. I loose about 4 fps for every 20 gr. I add. It's fun to mess around with and see if it makes a differance. If not just remove them.
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:12 PM   #5
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Auuuu I see what happened , there are two of the same threads going, thought I forgot to hit quick reply button.
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:02 PM   #6
dk_ace
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What’s your draw length and poundage?

I like to shoot the heaviest thing I can get that will shoot 275-285 FPS. At 70 lbs and 30.5” I can get a very heavy arrow to do that. If you’re shooting a lighter draw weight and a short draw length I’d be careful about how heavy you go.

D
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:54 PM   #7
txtrophy85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dk_ace View Post
Whatís your draw length and poundage?

I like to shoot the heaviest thing I can get that will shoot 275-285 FPS. At 70 lbs and 30.5Ē I can get a very heavy arrow to do that. If youíre shooting a lighter draw weight and a short draw length Iíd be careful about how heavy you go.

D
I"m shooting 70# at 283 fps from a Halon 32. That's with the 390 grain arrow
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Old 06-27-2018, 01:07 PM   #8
Stoof
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I'd go heavier. You could easily get another 100 grains in there. What spine you shooting?
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Old 06-27-2018, 05:22 PM   #9
dk_ace
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Quote:
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I'd go heavier. You could easily get another 100 grains in there. What spine you shooting?
I think his speed is going to tank with another 100 grains in. I think you can add a little weight without the speed dropping too much, but not 100 grains.

OP, as has been pointed out you may need new arrows to accomplish this weight change depending on what spine youíre currently using.

D
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Old 06-28-2018, 08:53 AM   #10
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I was going to stay out of this one. Hahaha.

Ok your asking what arrow for three different animals. By doing this you need to pick the largest or toughest animal out of the group. So this makes the elk the animal you want to look at for building this arrow.

Now when you are asking what arrow to use . You are going to get lots of different answers. Why? Because most of it is opinion only.

But let’s look at this. You where told 410 to 420. Here are the questions you need to ask them. What bow, what draw weight, what draw length. All of this matters. Example say he’s shooting a 350 ibo bow at 30 inches with a 420 gr arrow. His momentum is roughly .601 fps is 322. But let’s say you are shooting a 340 ibo at 28 inches. This puts you at 292 fps. And momentum is .545. This means if all else is equal you will have just over 10% less penetration potential. This would mean you would need to be around 80 to 100 gr heavier to get the same potential.

Next when look at others and what they use is broadhead. This is a major factor. Again looking at the guy above. If he is using a ****ty head meaning bad mechanical advantage so it’s restrictive as hell. Then you could shoot same weight if using a 2 blade.

As you can see lots of variables with a question like you asked.

I’m I over thinking this. Hell yes I am. But that is what I do. I break things down to get me to the best possible build with the least amount of failures.

I won’t tell you a weight, but what I will tell you is #1 build your arrow with structural integrity #2 tuning. Bad arrow flight is a penetration killer #3build your weight with foc. After that let the weight land where it may.

My opinion 5oo to 600. Over kill for whitetail good for elk.
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:34 AM   #11
dk_ace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txtrophy85 View Post
I"m shooting 70# at 283 fps from a Halon 32. That's with the 390 grain arrow
So Iím guessing your draw length is on the shorter side of the spectrum then maybe around 27Ē? If you go to a 550 grain arrow youíre likely to see the speed drop off to somewhere in the 230s. Whether or not that is worthwhile to you is a question only you can answer.

If I were you, Iíd shoot what you have now or go a little heavier up until the point where my speed dropped to around 270. I donít like to shoot slower than that. For me, wide pin gaps and decreased max distance are a problem once your arrow gets slower than that. Youíre talking about doing western hunting now where those two problems could be a significant issue. I donít think youíre going to get to that speed with anything much heavier than 430 grains.

With these specs, Iíd shoot a fixed head with good penetration and as big of a cut as I felt I could keep the penetration with and get good arrow flight from.

I agree with some of the others that Iíd be looking to put the extra weight in the front of the arrow.

If youíre just curious how a heavier arrow might perform, order 125, 150, and 200 grain field tips then go shoot them and see what you think. Depending on the spine of the arrow you have some of those will group better than others and youíll be able to see how much the speed loss impacts things.

D
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:42 AM   #12
Gummi Bear
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600gn arrow for me.

The pigs just hate it.

I went back to aluminum. Since the carbon arrows were breaking so often when they hit or passed through an animal, I figured I'd just save the $20 per shaft and shoot more critters.
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txtrophy85 View Post
I"m shooting 70# at 283 fps from a Halon 32. That's with the 390 grain arrow
I'm shooting a Halon 32/6 at 31"/72(Maxxed 70lb limbs), and its slinging a 505 grain Easton carbon injexion (31.5")and the pro shops chrono read 289.
The KE calculator I used show's that to be a hair over 93lbs of KE which is plenty for anything that walks with the proper shot placement.
I'd say increase your arrow weight and note the effects of speed to find your maximum KE.
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:12 AM   #14
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John Dudley and Aron Snyder had a pretty good discussion about arrow weight, proper spine, arrow tuning and FOC in the Nock On podcast ("What the FOC") on Tuesday.

Jeff at CCR is building a heavier arrow setup for me that I'm going to test before my elk hunt in September. I'll play around with different head weight to see what shoots best out of my HTR, but I'll increase from ~436 to ~500-530 gr overall. I think my current shafts (Beman ICS Hunter 340) are borderline weak with 125 gr head, so we went with 300 spine to accomocate an increase in forward weight (with weighted inserts).
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:20 AM   #15
dk_ace
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There are a lot of people posting what they use personally here who seem to be missing the fact that the OP has a different draw length which changes this conversation a lot. For those of us shooting over 30”, we get away with good speed out of much heavier arrows than guys with shorter draw lengths would ever get. He hasn’t told us his DL yet, but if he’s getting 283 FPS out of a 70lb halon 32 with a 390 grain arrow, it’s clearly on the shorter side which changes what he should shoot.

He’s looking for the ideal arrow. To me, an ideal arrow has to be a great balance of momentum (or some other energy measure depending on how you lean), speed, durability, and down range performance (how it retains energy, handles crosswind, etc). If you just got to a crazy heavy arrow, you’re going to sacrifice way too much in speed IMO. I’m not a speed freak by any stretch and shoot a very heavy arrow myself but I think you do need to get to 270-275 for a hunting rig to keep the pin gaps reasonable and to be able to shoot long if necessary.

OP, if you really want to shoot a very heavy arrow and get decent speed you’ll need to shoot a much heavier bow. Assuming I’m close to right on your draw length, you’ll need 90 lbs to push the arrows being recommended to what I consider decent speeds.

D
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Old 06-28-2018, 02:07 PM   #16
enewman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dk_ace View Post
There are a lot of people posting what they use personally here who seem to be missing the fact that the OP has a different draw length which changes this conversation a lot. For those of us shooting over 30Ē, we get away with good speed out of much heavier arrows than guys with shorter draw lengths would ever get. He hasnít told us his DL yet, but if heís getting 283 FPS out of a 70lb halon 32 with a 390 grain arrow, itís clearly on the shorter side which changes what he should shoot.

Heís looking for the ideal arrow. To me, an ideal arrow has to be a great balance of momentum (or some other energy measure depending on how you lean), speed, durability, and down range performance (how it retains energy, handles crosswind, etc). If you just got to a crazy heavy arrow, youíre going to sacrifice way too much in speed IMO. Iím not a speed freak by any stretch and shoot a very heavy arrow myself but I think you do need to get to 270-275 for a hunting rig to keep the pin gaps reasonable and to be able to shoot long if necessary.

OP, if you really want to shoot a very heavy arrow and get decent speed youíll need to shoot a much heavier bow. Assuming Iím close to right on your draw length, youíll need 90 lbs to push the arrows being recommended to what I consider decent speeds.

D
Yes. I wrote about draw length about 4 post above you
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Old 06-30-2018, 11:06 AM   #17
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I was looking forward to chiming in on this one, but it looks like everything I would have said has already been said.
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