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Old 06-23-2018, 09:43 AM   #1
flywise
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Default George Will

Just another swamp dwelling never Trumped?
Why have these people gone insane? I can see maybe looking it cor a few months after the election. But as the positive results keep flowing in for the country how in the world do you give a speech and write and article calling for the defeat of your own party?
Insanity
http://start.att.net/news/read/artic.../category/news

Last edited by flywise; 06-23-2018 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:12 PM   #2
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It's because there is only 1 party in DC and Trump is starting to prove it.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:59 PM   #3
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Will isn't advocating in favor of more swamp. He's recommending that the swamp dwellers that have Rs after their names not be reelected. He's mourning the lack of commitment to constitutional principles among the politicians who give lip service to being "conservative" when they're standing in front of microphones and cameras, but then demonstrate their commitment to the swamp with their actions.

I don't know if his recommended action is a fix or not. Heck, I'm beginning to doubt there is a way for us to return our government to its proper restrained-by-the-constitution place. The swamp sure seems to be in firm control of everything.
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Old 06-25-2018, 05:55 PM   #4
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I think Will's blaming it all on Trump and loyalty to Trump is misguided too. The swamp Republicans are happy to go along with Trump or anyone else whenever they can do something that looks good on the surface but really solidifies their big government power and control. They did it before Trump, and they'll still do it after Trump is gone. Trump has definitely gone right along with them on some things, and that ****** me off. But he's also gone against them on some other things, and that makes me happy. Voting them out because they cooperate with Trump is the wrong thing to do. Voting them out because they suck.....that has a lot more merit.

His argument that we might as well vote them out in the general election and let the Dems have the keys to Congress for a couple of years might be a good way to get rid of the liberal Republicans. To fix it, whether we vote them out this fall or not, we still need to vote in real conservatives in the Republican primaries in 2020. Either that, or get a new party up and running so fast that it could dominate the next election instead of the GOP (don't hold your breath on that being possible).

There's too much corruption in D.C. The swamp controls everything, including all the money and big campaign war chests. I still believe the best hope we have of fixing that and taking power out of the slimeball politicians' hands is in the Article V movement to amend the Constitution to put in term limits, balanced budget amendment, etc... Politicians in the swamp won't do that. If it's gonna happen, it will have to be the people who do it. We could do it through the ballot box, theoretically. But the big swamp money makes too much of a difference in elections, apparently. We need to amend the constitution in a few areas in order to take the power away from the government and give it back to the states and the people, as it was originally intended.
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:00 PM   #5
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Many did vote against the republic an party in the re ent past and it lead to dismal conditions cor the American people. I do agree that there are many in the party who lack any and l semblance of conservatism we certainly do not need a Democrat party full of wacked out socialist
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:11 PM   #6
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Many did vote against the republic an party in the re ent past and it lead to dismal conditions cor the American people. I do agree that there are many in the party who lack any and l semblance of conservatism we certainly do not need a Democrat party full of wacked out socialist
Yep. Not much different between the establishment Republicans and the Democrats though. There's a difference. But it's small. The primaries are the only hope, other than some constitutional amendments that clip the federal government's wings substantially (through the Article V movement). Sadly, both fixes are low probability of happening.

Going in the right direction would be great. Going in the wrong direction slower is better than sprinting in the wrong direction though.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:04 PM   #7
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I think Will's blaming it all on Trump and loyalty to Trump is misguided too. The swamp Republicans are happy to go along with Trump or anyone else whenever they can do something that looks good on the surface but really solidifies their big government power and control. They did it before Trump, and they'll still do it after Trump is gone. Trump has definitely gone right along with them on some things, and that ****** me off. But he's also gone against them on some other things, and that makes me happy. Voting them out because they cooperate with Trump is the wrong thing to do. Voting them out because they suck.....that has a lot more merit.

His argument that we might as well vote them out in the general election and let the Dems have the keys to Congress for a couple of years might be a good way to get rid of the liberal Republicans. To fix it, whether we vote them out this fall or not, we still need to vote in real conservatives in the Republican primaries in 2020. Either that, or get a new party up and running so fast that it could dominate the next election instead of the GOP (don't hold your breath on that being possible).

There's too much corruption in D.C. The swamp controls everything, including all the money and big campaign war chests. I still believe the best hope we have of fixing that and taking power out of the slimeball politicians' hands is in the Article V movement to amend the Constitution to put in term limits, balanced budget amendment, etc... Politicians in the swamp won't do that. If it's gonna happen, it will have to be the people who do it. We could do it through the ballot box, theoretically. But the big swamp money makes too much of a difference in elections, apparently. We need to amend the constitution in a few areas in order to take the power away from the government and give it back to the states and the people, as it was originally intended.
Term limits and repeal of the 17th amendment are top of my list. State level electoral college would be a great addition too.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:30 PM   #8
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Term limits and repeal of the 17th amendment are top of my list. State level electoral college would be a great addition too.
Personally, I'd rather keep the 17th. Seems like repealing it would create an opportunity for big government swamp dwellers to have more influence.

I like Gov. Abbott's list of potential amendments to be included in an Article V convention....

1. Prohibit Congress from regulating activity that occurs wholly within one State.

2. Require Congress to balance its budget.

3. Prohibit administrative agencies—and the unelected bureaucrats that staff them—from creating federal law.

4. Prohibit administrative agencies—and the unelected bureaucrats that staff them—from preempting state law.

5. Allow a two-thirds majority of the States to override a U.S. Supreme Court decision.

6. Require a seven-justice super-majority vote for U.S. Supreme Court decisions that invalidate a democratically enacted law.

7. Restore the balance of power between the federal and state governments by limiting the former to the powers expressly delegated to it in the Constitution.

8. Give state officials the power to sue in federal court when federal officials overstep their bounds.

9. Allow a two-thirds majority of the States to override a federal law or regulation.


Some of the ideas for amendments in the Convention of States Project are good ones too....

-A balanced budget amendment.

-A redefinition of the General Welfare Clause (the original view was the federal government could not spend money on any topic within the jurisdiction of the states).

-A redefinition of the Commerce Clause (the original view was that Congress was granted a narrow and exclusive power to regulate shipments across state lines–not all the economic activity of the nation).

-A prohibition of using international treaties and law to govern the domestic law of the United States.

-A limitation on using Executive Orders and federal regulations to enact laws (since Congress is supposed to be the exclusive agency to enact laws).

-Imposing term limits on Congress and the Supreme Court.

-Placing an upper limit on federal taxation.

-Requiring the sunset of all existing federal taxes and a super-majority vote to replace them with new, fairer taxes.
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:21 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Shane View Post
Personally, I'd rather keep the 17th. Seems like repealing it would create an opportunity for big government swamp dwellers to have more influence.

I like Gov. Abbott's list of potential amendments to be included in an Article V convention....

1. Prohibit Congress from regulating activity that occurs wholly within one State.

2. Require Congress to balance its budget.

3. Prohibit administrative agencies—and the unelected bureaucrats that staff them—from creating federal law.

4. Prohibit administrative agencies—and the unelected bureaucrats that staff them—from preempting state law.

5. Allow a two-thirds majority of the States to override a U.S. Supreme Court decision.

6. Require a seven-justice super-majority vote for U.S. Supreme Court decisions that invalidate a democratically enacted law.

7. Restore the balance of power between the federal and state governments by limiting the former to the powers expressly delegated to it in the Constitution.

8. Give state officials the power to sue in federal court when federal officials overstep their bounds.

9. Allow a two-thirds majority of the States to override a federal law or regulation.


Some of the ideas for amendments in the Convention of States Project are good ones too....

-A balanced budget amendment.

-A redefinition of the General Welfare Clause (the original view was the federal government could not spend money on any topic within the jurisdiction of the states).

-A redefinition of the Commerce Clause (the original view was that Congress was granted a narrow and exclusive power to regulate shipments across state lines–not all the economic activity of the nation).

-A prohibition of using international treaties and law to govern the domestic law of the United States.

-A limitation on using Executive Orders and federal regulations to enact laws (since Congress is supposed to be the exclusive agency to enact laws).

-Imposing term limits on Congress and the Supreme Court.

-Placing an upper limit on federal taxation.

-Requiring the sunset of all existing federal taxes and a super-majority vote to replace them with new, fairer taxes.
Nice list's, is it possible to ever get there? I'm having a hard time believing it's possible
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:27 PM   #10
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Nice list's, is it possible to ever get there? I'm having a hard time believing it's possible
Improbable, but possible. About as likely as voting out all the establishment swamp dwellers and replacing them with honest limited government advocating statesmen, I'm afraid.

Here's a pretty good article in response to George Will's article from your original post...

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...terrible-idea/
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:18 AM   #11
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Improbable, but possible. About as likely as voting out all the establishment swamp dwellers and replacing them with honest limited government advocating statesmen, I'm afraid.

Here's a pretty good article in response to George Will's article from your original post...

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...terrible-idea/
Thanks for the link.
Perfect contradiction to Will's request. I don't know how we get rid of the complicite republicans who have willfully allowed their power and responsibilities go but I can see Trump helping. He at least calls out the gutless ( although often in a petty way) and many of the gutless are retireing as a result. Hopefully more will retire and good candidates will run in their place.
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Old 06-26-2018, 11:11 AM   #12
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Thanks for the link.
Perfect contradiction to Will's request. I don't know how we get rid of the complicite republicans who have willfully allowed their power and responsibilities go but I can see Trump helping. He at least calls out the gutless ( although often in a petty way) and many of the gutless are retireing as a result. Hopefully more will retire and good candidates will run in their place.
Trump has done a great job fighting against the swamp in several areas (Gorsuch, tax cuts, etc...). Other times, he is working WITH them (refusing to repeal Obamacare, caving on border enforcement and going back to catch and release - just yesterday, etc....). At least we have some good things to celebrate. We wouldn't have any with Hillary. I sure wish he'd stay on our team ALL the time though. There is such a huge opportunity to move in the right direction across the board, if they'd just do it.
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Old 06-26-2018, 11:39 AM   #13
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Trump has done a great job fighting against the swamp in several areas (Gorsuch, tax cuts, etc...). Other times, he is working WITH them (refusing to repeal Obamacare, caving on border enforcement and going back to catch and release - just yesterday, etc....). At least we have some good things to celebrate. We wouldn't have any with Hillary. I sure wish he'd stay on our team ALL the time though. There is such a huge opportunity to move in the right direction across the board, if they'd just do it.
I kinda agree. As it is now he can't get his agenda across the finish line because of the obstruction from both parties. I'm guessing he's toning down the hard nose approach because of the midterms. If he gets more seats in office on his side that's when you will see the ball rolling in the right direction.

My ramblings is just a WAG though.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:22 PM   #14
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Trump has done a great job fighting against the swamp in several areas (Gorsuch, tax cuts, etc...). Other times, he is working WITH them (refusing to repeal Obamacare, caving on border enforcement and going back to catch and release - just yesterday, etc....). At least we have some good things to celebrate. We wouldn't have any with Hillary. I sure wish he'd stay on our team ALL the time though. There is such a huge opportunity to move in the right direction across the board, if they'd just do it.
Can he ( alone ) repeal obama care?
Catch and release, I think that is some cases like catch and release he does some things just to jack with his opposition. Make them think he is caving just to stick it to them in the future. At least that is my hope. He is showing those in his party how to push back against the dwellers....now they just have to have the jewels to do it. I'm hoping this gives those folks we are hoping and praying for, in office or contemplating running, the courage to fight back and get us to the spot we should be.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:36 PM   #15
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No, of course Trump can't repeal Obamacare alone. Last year when there was an effort in Congress to do just that, as promised by all of them in their campaigns for years, Trump derided the Freedom Caucus conservatives that were trying to follow through with the promise and get the repeal passed. Trump talked about working with the Democrats to fight against the Freedom Caucus conservatives' efforts to repeal it. Trump wanted to repeal it and then immediately replace it with basically the same thing. It would have been a symbolic win to repeal, but it would have been a meaningless one that would have left us with the same kind of government-run health insurance system. Changing the name of it would have been useless.

The Freedom Caucus fought for the exact same kind of repeal bill that Paul Ryan and all the establishment Republicans passed multiple times when Obama was president and they knew it would be vetoed. When Trump came into office, the establishment guys wouldn't even allow it to be brought up for a vote. Trump sided with the establishment guys, and nothing got done.

I don't know if caving in on immigration will give others the courage to fight back or not. Seems like it would do the opposite, but hopefully not.

Last edited by Shane; 06-26-2018 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:57 PM   #16
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Just another swamp dwelling never Trumped?
Why have these people gone insane?

You started the Krauthammer RIP thread. Charles Krauthammer declared Trump unfit for the Presidency last year. Interesting that Will and Krauthammer, 2 intellectual conservatives, would draw a similar conclusion. Insanity?

Last edited by Vermin93; 06-26-2018 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:55 PM   #17
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You know if they changed the law prohibiting lawmakers from accepting gifts to include their family members you'd have some swampers packing up!
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:56 PM   #18
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You started the Krauthammer RIP thread. Charles Krauthammer declared Trump unfit for the Presidency last year. Interesting that Will and Krauthammer, 2 intellectual conservatives, would draw a similar conclusion. Insanity?
Yeah, I thought the same thing during the primaries as well. Trump has proven all three of us wrong, and I'm freaking loving it!!
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:03 PM   #19
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Woke up this morning very upset with the Dem's idea of making all Repub's dining events hate filled.
Called someone who is usually the voice of sanity and he was screaming.
Getting scary folks............
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:38 PM   #20
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Yeah, I thought the same thing during the primaries as well. Trump has proven all three of us wrong, and I'm freaking loving it!!
Word!
Trump has proven that he was absolutely the best choice. No other Republican candidate would be defending himself against the daily attacks ( and yes these same attacks would be going on no matter who the R President happen to be today) none of them would be attempting to get the things done he is trying to get done. I was hoping for Cruz early and I highly doubt he would have had the courage to take the swamp head on. I had much respect for Charles and did once for George but in either case their opinion of Trump makes no difference to me. Trump is exactly what we needed.
( most.of this is geared.towards vermain)
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:58 PM   #21
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Word!
Trump has proven that he was absolutely the best choice. No other Republican candidate would be defending himself against the daily attacks ( and yes these same attacks would be going on no matter who the R President happen to be today) none of them would be attempting to get the things done he is trying to get done. I was hoping for Cruz early and I highly doubt he would have had the courage to take the swamp head on. I had much respect for Charles and did once for George but in either case their opinion of Trump makes no difference to me. Trump is exactly what we needed.
( most.of this is geared.towards vermain)
The Varmint is a nevertrumper. Trump could walk on water and The Varmint would just claim that Trump can't swim. I find it hilarious!
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Old 06-26-2018, 11:05 PM   #22
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The Varmint is a nevertrumper. Trump could walk on water and The Varmint would just claim that Trump can't swim. I find it hilarious!
Lol, no doubt
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:27 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Johnny Dangerr View Post
Woke up this morning very upset with the Dem's idea of making all Repub's dining events hate filled.
Called someone who is usually the voice of sanity and he was screaming.
Getting scary folks............
Alexandria Cortez a 28 yr. old socialist that was a Bernie Sanders volunteer beat out the Dem in NY state. She represents abolishing ICE and is also in the group that verbally assaulted HHS Secretary Nielsen with Hrabar leading the charge (works for the DOJ) at the Mexican Restaurant.
The Dems are now so far left that they're closer to NK than the U.S.!!!!
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:53 AM   #24
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The Varmint is a nevertrumper. Trump could walk on water and The Varmint would just claim that Trump can't swim. I find it hilarious!
I too have been pleasantly surprised by much of what Trump has accomplished (regardless of how mature he acts while doing so). But don't forget we have some here who follow Trump blindly. I've seen several members bash/attack other conservatives for being critical of Trump regardless of whether or not the criticism had merit. There's being conservative and then there's being a fanboy. No one's perfect. If you start having trouble seeing Trump's or find yourself thinking, "Man, I wish we could get Donny to re-write the Bible," beware, you're falling into the second category.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:24 AM   #25
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Yeah, I thought the same thing during the primaries as well. Trump has proven all three of us wrong, and I'm freaking loving it!!
Well dang that didn't go like Vermin was expecting. Now he has to scan the liberal forums looking for another potential zinger.
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