Closed Thread
Go Back   TexasBowhunter.com Community Discussion Forums > Topics > Around the Campfire
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-17-2018, 09:52 PM   #351
JLivi1224
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Hunt In: Polk County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
Aren’t you making a wild guess? And there’s no way to disprove you?
Well, has anyone disproved God’s existence yet ?
JLivi1224 is online now   Back To The Top
Old 03-17-2018, 09:56 PM   #352
Balcones_Walker
Eight Point
 
Balcones_Walker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Hunt In: Wherever I can
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death from Above View Post
We are not called to prove God exist.
One thing can be said for certain, this thread didn’t start off “RIP Stephen Hawking... by the way, is there anyone out there who would like to opine on where his soul wound up?” I think the way it wasn’t called is the point.
Balcones_Walker is online now   Back To The Top
Old 03-17-2018, 10:08 PM   #353
ttaxidermy
Pope & Young
 
ttaxidermy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brazoria county
Hunt In: Brady,McCulloch Cnty, Brazoria cnty, South Africa, Namibia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
Aren’t you making a wild guess? And there’s no way to disprove you?
Nope
ttaxidermy is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-17-2018, 10:34 PM   #354
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balcones_Walker View Post
One thing can be said for certain, this thread didn’t start off “RIP Stephen Hawking... by the way, is there anyone out there who would like to opine on where his soul wound up?” I think the way it wasn’t called is the point.
Sure I would...if he trusted in Jesus as the propitiation for his sin, then Mr Hawking in the presence of the Lord right now according to the Bible. If he did not, then that is not where he is.

I am of the opinion that God allowed Mr Hawking to live a long and productive life with a horrible disease to have time to woo his heart. It was not a will to life or any other human effort, IMO. I see that as the grace of God pursuing Hawking, and I pray He was received. Rest assured, the Lord Jesus would grieve more over Mr Hawkings rejection than anyone/thing else in the known unknown world...He loves us that much.

Blessings all.

And thank you Lord for your stubborn Grace.
Death from Above is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-17-2018, 10:52 PM   #355
sir shovelhands
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Houston
Hunt In: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post
Well, has anyone disproved God’s existence yet ?
One cannot prove non-existence (or a negative) without omniscience. Just as you can't disprove the existence of Allah, Shiva, vampires, unicorns, and Thor.

An atheist doesn't believe because they find there to be a lack of proper evidence for the existence of a God. Not because there is proof God doesn't exist.

Just as you find the evidence for other religions to be lacking, an atheist finds the same for your religion as well.
sir shovelhands is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-17-2018, 11:02 PM   #356
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir shovelhands View Post
One cannot prove non-existence (or a negative) without omniscience. Just as you can't disprove the existence of Allah, Shiva, vampires, unicorns, and Thor.

An atheist doesn't believe because they find there to be a lack of proper evidence for the existence of a God. Not because there is proof God doesn't exist.

Just as you find the evidence for other religions to be lacking, an atheist finds the same for your religion as well.
Man...sure sounds like it takes a lot of faith to be an atheist.
Death from Above is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-17-2018, 11:08 PM   #357
MadHatter
Ten Point
 
MadHatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death from Above View Post
Sure I would...if he trusted in Jesus as the propitiation for his sin, then Mr Hawking in the presence of the Lord right now according to the Bible. If he did not, then that is not where he is.

I am of the opinion that God allowed Mr Hawking to live a long and productive life with a horrible disease to have time to woo his heart. It was not a will to life or any other human effort, IMO. I see that as the grace of God pursuing Hawking, and I pray He was received. Rest assured, the Lord Jesus would grieve more over Mr Hawkings rejection than anyone/thing else in the known unknown world...He loves us that much.

Blessings all.

And thank you Lord for your stubborn Grace.
What about all them fellas down in the rain forest? Never had any contact with civilization. Never seen a pencil, book, microwave, church, etc.. Never heard the name Jesus, or God, and worship who knows what, if anything. Wild savages, who still live by the fang and claw. Have no clue or idea as to what religion is, never heard of heaven or hell, couldn't possibly even understand the salvation story if you had a way to communicate, without great effort. Not a single one ever hearing the 10 commandments, or living by them. Lived and died for 1000's of generations in this manner, and still are.
Where do they fit in? You think Israel, prophecy, prayer, god giving his only son to die for you, etc.. ever crossed a single mind, out of 1000's of generations? I'll take NO for a $1000.
The bible says God gives everyone a chance. So if they got their chance, what were they supposed to do with it. All the things a christian is required to do, to attain heaven, spreading the gospel, etc... You have no bible, no church, no preacher, no one else belives like you, and your entire life is about surviving, and the next meal, not far removed from an animal. I've never read any account of anyone encountering a wild person, and come to find out they are a Christian...? Have you?
Seems to me the bible is aimed at the educated man. I've discussed it many times with people in the church including my childhood pastor, and the answers are as wild as they are different.
MadHatter is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-17-2018, 11:09 PM   #358
sir shovelhands
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Houston
Hunt In: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chopsknives View Post
Did yall know that while most scientists do not believe in God almost all Astrophysicists do? Let that sink in
I'd like to see a link that shows that. Based on this http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/s...ts-and-belief/ a slight majority do believe in a higher power, and the lowest percentage of belief is in physics and astronomy.
sir shovelhands is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-17-2018, 11:12 PM   #359
sir shovelhands
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Houston
Hunt In: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death from Above View Post
Man...sure sounds like it takes a lot of faith to be an atheist.
Truly that doesn't make any sense. People don't believe in flying fire breathing cows because the evidence for them is lacking. That doesn't take any faith. The same applies for lack of belief in a God.

It would take a lot of faith to specifically say "there is absolutely no God, for that I am sure"

Just as it would take the same faith to say "there is absolutely a God, for that I am sure"

Saying "eh, not very compelling evidence for X, so I won't believe in it" requires zero faith.

Last edited by sir shovelhands; 03-17-2018 at 11:15 PM.
sir shovelhands is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-17-2018, 11:17 PM   #360
MadHatter
Ten Point
 
MadHatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir shovelhands View Post
Truly that doesn't make any sense. People don't believe in flying fire breathing cows because the evidence for them is lacking. That doesn't take any faith. The same applies for lack of belief in a God.

It would take a lot of faith to specifically say "there is absolutely no God, for that I am sure"

Just as it would take the same faith to say "there is absolutely a God, for that I am sure"

Saying "eh, not very compelling evidence for X, so I won't believe in it" requires zero faith.
Bingo . When you start claiming absolutes, your just another religion.
MadHatter is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-17-2018, 11:37 PM   #361
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadHatter View Post
What about all them fellas down in the rain forest? Never had any contact with civilization. Never seen a pencil, book, microwave, church, etc.. Never heard the name Jesus, or God, and worship who knows what, if anything. Wild savages, who still live by the fang and claw. Have no clue or idea as to what religion is, never heard of heaven or hell, couldn't possibly even understand the salvation story if you had a way to communicate, without great effort. Not a single one ever hearing the 10 commandments, or living by them. Lived and died for 1000's of generations in this manner, and still are.
Where do they fit in? You think Israel, prophecy, prayer, god giving his only son to die for you, etc.. ever crossed a single mind, out of 1000's of generations? I'll take NO for a $1000.
The bible says God gives everyone a chance. So if they got their chance, what were they supposed to do with it. All the things a christian is required to do, to attain heaven, spreading the gospel, etc... You have no bible, no church, no preacher, no one else belives like you, and your entire life is about surviving, and the next meal, not far removed from an animal. I've never read any account of anyone encountering a wild person, and come to find out they are a Christian...? Have you?
Seems to me the bible is aimed at the educated man. I've discussed it many times with people in the church including my childhood pastor, and the answers are as wild as they are different.
The Bible says no such folks have existed. Romans 1.

Gods grace is greater than your capacity to understand (mine too).

The Bible says it is the foolish that He uses to put to shame the wise. It really is for the unlearned...it just takes a special Teacher to be understood appropriately.
Death from Above is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-17-2018, 11:40 PM   #362
Smell the Glove
Ten Point
 
Smell the Glove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Houston
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post
Well, has anyone disproved God’s existence yet ?
Has anybody proven it? I'll I've seen is "look at a sunrise", "watch a baby get born" and look at this bible verse. I don't see what's so magical about those things. A cow does the same thing everyday.
Smell the Glove is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-17-2018, 11:43 PM   #363
Death from Above
Pope & Young
 
Death from Above's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Henderson, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir shovelhands View Post
Truly that doesn't make any sense. People don't believe in flying fire breathing cows because the evidence for them is lacking. That doesn't take any faith. The same applies for lack of belief in a God.

It would take a lot of faith to specifically say "there is absolutely no God, for that I am sure"

Just as it would take the same faith to say "there is absolutely a God, for that I am sure"

Saying "eh, not very compelling evidence for X, so I won't believe in it" requires zero faith.
In your opinion...


The Bible says different. Listen. I know you are well read and educated and I not here to change anyone’s heart. The Bible answers all these issues that are posed with an unbelieving heart.

In my opinion, which is based on my own personal experiences, I think it would take more faith to “not” believe.

You make some good points but the Bible says that God set wisdom on its ear and uses foolishness to put to shame mankind’s wisdom...He does so to make certain of where the glory lands.

Thank you for the dialogue.
Death from Above is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 12:06 AM   #364
sir shovelhands
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Houston
Hunt In: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death from Above View Post
In your opinion...


The Bible says different. Listen. I know you are well read and educated and I not here to change anyone’s heart. The Bible answers all these issues that are posed with an unbelieving heart.

In my opinion, which is based on my own personal experiences, I think it would take more faith to “not” believe.

You make some good points but the Bible says that God set wisdom on its ear and uses foolishness to put to shame mankind’s wisdom...He does so to make certain of where the glory lands.

Thank you for the dialogue.
I enjoy our dialogue and that we can disagree amicably. I would share a fire with you anytime, regardless of our differences in belief. Unless it's a high fence ranch...
sir shovelhands is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 12:07 AM   #365
sir shovelhands
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Houston
Hunt In: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smell the Glove View Post
A cow does the same thing everyday.
Ah, that explains why a billion people worship them.
sir shovelhands is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 12:51 AM   #366
monsterspike
Eight Point
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy moss View Post
If there are black holes GOD created them on the 4th day of creation! If non believers read the Bible and studied prophecy just a little bit and see what is going on in the world today especially with Israel,Iran,Russia and Syria and let don’t forget about North Korea. Israel has been in odds with the Middle East for thousands of year and is wrote about in the Bible thousands of years ago and all things prophecied is coming in to play. If you just keep your eyes toward Israel there is know way you would doubt the truths of the Bible .The best scientists will tie science and God together and will have all the answer to all there questions they ever wanted to know .But they will not get a nobel peace prize for it!
!
tracy brings truth! all the moving parts are in place for ezk 38 and isa 17

this particular alliance is prophecy from 3000-ish years ago. you wont hear about this in the mega churches, or many pulpits at all. no idea why.

if nastradamus had written ezk 38, everyone would be talking about it. interesting times indeed.

happy sunday everyone. HE is risen!
monsterspike is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 07:03 AM   #367
Chase This!
Pope & Young
 
Chase This!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Off the shelf
Hunt In: Where the big deer roam
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadHatter View Post
What about all them fellas down in the rain forest? Never had any contact with civilization. Never seen a pencil, book, microwave, church, etc.. Never heard the name Jesus, or God, and worship who knows what, if anything. Wild savages, who still live by the fang and claw. Have no clue or idea as to what religion is, never heard of heaven or hell, couldn't possibly even understand the salvation story if you had a way to communicate, without great effort. Not a single one ever hearing the 10 commandments, or living by them. Lived and died for 1000's of generations in this manner, and still are.
Where do they fit in?.
I was told they go to hell. Doesn’t see right, does it?
Chase This! is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 07:06 AM   #368
Chase This!
Pope & Young
 
Chase This!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Off the shelf
Hunt In: Where the big deer roam
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smell the Glove View Post
Has anybody proven it? I'll I've seen is "look at a sunrise", "watch a baby get born" and look at this bible verse. I don't see what's so magical about those things. A cow does the same thing everyday.
Some of the absolutely terrible things that happen in this world seems to more disprove it.
Chase This! is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 07:20 AM   #369
JLivi1224
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Hunt In: Polk County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
Some of the absolutely terrible things that happen in this world seems to more disprove it.
Free will. And I’ll offer this, from another great book you guys should look into.



“just as we can’t fully explain the heights of God’s love, neither can we fully explain the depth of sin and evil. Indeed, part of the mystery of God’s love for us is that it more than covers our sin and the suffering in the world. It gives meaning to the suffering.
Indeed, more than any other belief system, Christianity addresses the origin and presence of evil while also offering hope in the eventual eradication of all pain. Unlike Eastern religions, Christianity doesn’t deny that evil is real. It’s uniquely positioned to offer hope and meaning. In Christianity, we can understand how evil came to be (the temptation of Satan and the fall of man; see Genesis 3). We can accept the fact of our guilt, but we can also rest in the promise of God’s solution, which involves His unfathomable love.
Think about it: To accomplish our salvation, the Creator allowed Himself to be murdered by His creation. Obviously, that doesn’t make sense to our limited understanding, just as it doesn’t make sense that a loving God would allow pain and suffering. Yet through Jesus’ victory over sin, death, evil and the grave, the world’s healing is conclusively guaranteed. It’s as if God says, “Trust me, world . . . if I can rise from the grave and conquer death, be assured that I am able to conquer any problem you are facing!”


Excerpt From
The 10 Most Common Objections to Christianity
Alex McFarland
JLivi1224 is online now   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 07:26 AM   #370
RiverRat1
Pope & Young
 
RiverRat1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leander
Hunt In: San Saba
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir shovelhands View Post
Truly that doesn't make any sense. People don't believe in flying fire breathing cows because the evidence for them is lacking. That doesn't take any faith. The same applies for lack of belief in a God.

It would take a lot of faith to specifically say "there is absolutely no God, for that I am sure"

Just as it would take the same faith to say "there is absolutely a God, for that I am sure"

Saying "eh, not very compelling evidence for X, so I won't believe in it" requires zero faith.
Now be honest WHY people believe the bolded. I think we all know but somehow I doubt you admit to why though.
RiverRat1 is online now   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 07:36 AM   #371
RiverRat1
Pope & Young
 
RiverRat1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leander
Hunt In: San Saba
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterspike View Post
tracy brings truth! all the moving parts are in place for ezk 38 and isa 17
this particular alliance is prophecy from 3000-ish years ago. you wont hear about this in the mega churches, or many pulpits at all. no idea why.

if nastradamus had written ezk 38, everyone would be talking about it. interesting times indeed.
happy sunday everyone. HE is risen!
Mega and bigger churches are trying to make money IMO. That's why you don't hear all of the Word preached. They want to be mainly PC or whatever is mainstream Christian PC at the time. Ice cream sermons bring in more people. It's really sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
I was told they go to hell. Doesn’t see right, does it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
Some of the absolutely terrible things that happen in this world seems to more disprove it.
God is all powerful. He knows all before you do. You will never understand why he does things. Romans 8:28 humans can sometimes use to understand why bad things happen.

Makes me sick to see people question God. Bible is clear on where people who think they're smarter than God will go. Maybe try to humble yourself a little and look for God instead of looking for ways to make yourself believe he doesn't exist. It's a persons choice to build on positive or negative.

No one will be in hell who doesn't deserve to be there. That I can promise.
RiverRat1 is online now   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 10:20 AM   #372
MadHatter
Ten Point
 
MadHatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
Mega and bigger churches are trying to make money IMO. That's why you don't hear all of the Word preached. They want to be mainly PC or whatever is mainstream Christian PC at the time. Ice cream sermons bring in more people. It's really sad.




God is all powerful. He knows all before you do. You will never understand why he does things. Romans 8:28 humans can sometimes use to understand why bad things happen.

Makes me sick to see people question God. Bible is clear on where people who think they're smarter than God will go. Maybe try to humble yourself a little and look for God instead of looking for ways to make yourself believe he doesn't exist. It's a persons choice to build on positive or negative.

No one will be in hell who doesn't deserve to be there. That I can promise.
I had no choice in being created. Some say life is a gift, not all see it that way. We certainly had no choice.
I was created to worship a god, or burn forever... Free will is an illusion imo.
Here we have a being so powerful, he already knows if I'll be in hell or not, knew before he ever created me. Knew he was going to kill his son, knew Lucifer would rebel against him, etc...
When he created Lucifer, he created the part of him that rebelled, and he knew this.....When his son died he already knew about it, and already knew he wasn't gone for good. The bible presents everything as if God didn't know any of this and it crushed him. How can it be such a horiible loss, for such an omnipotent creature, if his celestial son is coming back to life.
I would let you crucify my mother tomorrow and never shed a tear, if I knew, and she knew she was coming back to life, or I had the power to bring her back to life. I've never seen how this was anykind of sacrifice for God. I mean he made the whole story happen and knows the outcome, yet he doesn't like it when I'm bad, but he made me this way. Yet everyone in hell deserves to be there?
If there is a god, he gave me this brain, he knew it would develope this way, knew it wouldn't allow me to believe, knew it would ask these questions, yet I deserve to be in hell because I can't make it work in my brain. Crazy son.
MadHatter is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 02:28 PM   #373
Vermin93
Ten Point
 
Vermin93's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Addison, TX
Hunt In: North TX, OK, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chopsknives View Post
Did yall know that while most scientists do not believe in God almost all Astrophysicists do? Let that sink in
I've enjoyed much of the dialogue in this thread and think your claim makes a larger point about belief in God.

I've no idea if there's good evidence for your claim or not, but I would submit it's not very useful without an understanding of what a respondent means by God.

Yahweh? Jesus? Allah? Vishnu?
Some other all knowing and controlling God directly involved in people's lives?
A god who created Earth and man but leaves everything alone?
A god who created the universe and then took an eternal break?
A god who established the laws of nature and "let it ride"?
A god that's nothing like the one described in the world's holy books?

Several historically significant scientists held very different concepts of God than most monotheistic believers.

For example, Einstein said “I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.”

Scientists like Einstein may have registered an affirmative vote for a belief in God, but they don't subscribe to belief in a personally involved God, traditional religious miracles or the effectiveness of prayer.

Less than 1/3 of the world's population subscribes to Christianity. If we were born in India, chances are very high we'd be Hindus. If we were born in Afghanistan, we'd almost certainly by Muslims. I say let that sink in. Such basic realizations have had a profound affect on my thinking. I don't believe that God brought me into this world in the United States because the odds are good that I'd be raised Christian. I'm more inclined to believe that for 40+ years I was simply a product of my environment. Reaching a state of mind where I was able to question my core beliefs and consider other possibilities has been somewhat liberating, as I no longer feel obligated to believe on faith alone that which I've honestly seen no good evidence to believe. I sort of feel like I'm back to square one. I've stripped down my core beliefs regarding religion and God and am in the process of building them back up without years of childhood indoctrination, social pressure and cultural influence working against my attempt to reach some reasonable conclusions. I'm fairly certain some ships have sailed, in that I doubt I'll ever embrace a fundamentalist viewpoint. I've seen too many good arguments against it.

I realize these thoughts are largely unpopular and considered blasphemous by some, especially in a community as conservative and traditional as the hunting community. However, a neat thing about this forum is it's diversity in religious thinking. It appears to me there are fundamentalist believers, philosophical believers, skeptical believers, agnostics and even non-believers present here, and despite the fundamentalists being convinced that several of us are on the way to a fiery eternity, this thread somehow stayed on the rails. Possible miracle?

Great scientists have left us with profoundly sincere and inspiring thoughts regarding life, spirituality and God. Here are some of my personal favorites.

Einstein - "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the Mysterious — the knowledge of the existence of something unfathomable to us, the manifestation of the most profound reason coupled with the most brilliant beauty. I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, or who has a will of the kind we experience in ourselves. I am satisfied with the mystery of life’s eternity and with the awareness of — and glimpse into — the marvelous construction of the existing world together with the steadfast determination to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the reason that manifests itself in nature. This is the basics of cosmic religiosity, and it appears to me that the most important function of art and science is to awaken this feeling among the receptive and keep it alive."

Carl Sagan - “Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual.”

Mari Curie - "Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less."

Galileo Galilei - “I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or necessary demonstrations.”

Stephen Hawking - "Women. They are a complete mystery."

Best wishes to all.

Last edited by Vermin93; 03-18-2018 at 02:33 PM.
Vermin93 is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 02:46 PM   #374
Encinal
Pope & Young
 
Encinal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Location, Location
Hunt In: Spite of Wife's Complaints
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermin93 View Post
I've enjoyed much of the dialogue in this thread and think your claim makes a larger point about belief in God.

I've no idea if there's good evidence for your claim or not, but I would submit it's not very useful without an understanding of what a respondent means by God.

Yahweh? Jesus? Allah? Vishnu?
Some other all knowing and controlling God directly involved in people's lives?
A god who created Earth and man but leaves everything alone?
A god who created the universe and then took an eternal break?
A god who established the laws of nature and "let it ride"?
A god that's nothing like the one described in the world's holy books?

Several historically significant scientists held very different concepts of God than most monotheistic believers.

For example, Einstein said “I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.”

Scientists like Einstein may have registered an affirmative vote for a belief in God, but they don't subscribe to belief in a personally involved God, traditional religious miracles or the effectiveness of prayer.

Less than 1/3 of the world's population subscribes to Christianity. If we were born in India, chances are very high we'd be Hindus. If we were born in Afghanistan, we'd almost certainly by Muslims. I say let that sink in. Such basic realizations have had a profound affect on my thinking. I don't believe that God brought me into this world in the United States because the odds are good that I'd be raised Christian. I'm more inclined to believe that for 40+ years I was simply a product of my environment. Reaching a state of mind where I was able to question my core beliefs and consider other possibilities has been somewhat liberating, as I no longer feel obligated to believe on faith alone that which I've honestly seen no good evidence to believe. I sort of feel like I'm back to square one. I've stripped down my core beliefs regarding religion and God and am in the process of building them back up without years of childhood indoctrination, social pressure and cultural influence working against my attempt to reach some reasonable conclusions. I'm fairly certain some ships have sailed, in that I doubt I'll ever embrace a fundamentalist viewpoint. I've seen too many good arguments against it.

I realize these thoughts are largely unpopular and considered blasphemous by some, especially in a community as conservative and traditional as the hunting community. However, a neat thing about this forum is it's diversity in religious thinking. It appears to me there are fundamentalist believers, philosophical believers, skeptical believers, agnostics and even non-believers present here, and despite the fundamentalists being convinced that several of us are on the way to a fiery eternity, this thread somehow stayed on the rails. Possible miracle?

Great scientists have left us with profoundly sincere and inspiring thoughts regarding life, spirituality and God. Here are some of my personal favorites.

Einstein - "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the Mysterious — the knowledge of the existence of something unfathomable to us, the manifestation of the most profound reason coupled with the most brilliant beauty. I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, or who has a will of the kind we experience in ourselves. I am satisfied with the mystery of life’s eternity and with the awareness of — and glimpse into — the marvelous construction of the existing world together with the steadfast determination to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the reason that manifests itself in nature. This is the basics of cosmic religiosity, and it appears to me that the most important function of art and science is to awaken this feeling among the receptive and keep it alive."

Carl Sagan - “Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual.”

Mari Curie - "Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less."

Galileo Galilei - “I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or necessary demonstrations.”

Stephen Hawking - "Women. They are a complete mystery."

Best wishes to all.
Pretty Much.
Encinal is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 05:00 PM   #375
Tracy moss
Four Point
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Buna
Hunt In: buna
Default

Can’t understand why people would live without trying to know Jesus Christ!! But my heart goes out to the ones that dies without knowing Jesus !
Tracy moss is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 05:04 PM   #376
Chase This!
Pope & Young
 
Chase This!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Off the shelf
Hunt In: Where the big deer roam
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy moss View Post
Can’t understand why people would live without trying to know Jesus Christ!! But my heart goes out to the ones that dies without knowing Jesus !
Who said there was no “try”?
Chase This! is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 05:07 PM   #377
Tracy moss
Four Point
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Buna
Hunt In: buna
Default

True
Tracy moss is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 05:50 PM   #378
critter69
Ten Point
 
critter69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Colorado
Hunt In: CO and Texas when I can
Default

We were told by the preacher a few weeks ago, that the pope says now " you don't have to believe in God, to go to heaven." You only have to treat fellow people nicely, to be excepted. I only seen Stephen Hawhen a few times on the Big Bang theory, but I do hope he's in a better place now.
critter69 is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 05:56 PM   #379
JLivi1224
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Hunt In: Polk County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by critter69 View Post
We were told by the preacher a few weeks ago, that the pope says now " you don't have to believe in God, to go to heaven." You only have to treat fellow people nicely, to be excepted. I only seen Stephen Hawhen a few times on the Big Bang theory, but I do hope he's in a better place now.
If the pope is saying this he’s preaching against the infallible word of God. But this wouldn’t surprise me.
JLivi1224 is online now   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:04 PM   #380
Landrover
Pope & Young
 
Landrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Spring
Hunt In: Wherever & Whenever
Default

LOL....yall still going? Did I see where someone literally called a TBHer a demon for having a different view?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balcones_Walker View Post
One thing can be said for certain, this thread didn’t start off “RIP Stephen Hawking... by the way, is there anyone out there who would like to opine on where his soul wound up?” I think the way it wasn’t called is the point.
Limbo! That was a common word growing up in southeast Louisiana. Stillborn babies, babies not christened, the mentally unsound, etc would go to limbo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post
If the pope is saying this he’s preaching against the infallible word of God. But this wouldn’t surprise me.
I thought he was the vicker of Christ on earth, thus speaking on his behalf?
Landrover is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:13 PM   #381
eradicator
Pope & Young
 
eradicator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Arlington,TX/Pecos County
Default

First time looking at this thread...my head hurts
eradicator is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:16 PM   #382
JLivi1224
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Hunt In: Polk County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landrover View Post
LOL....yall still going? Did I see where someone literally called a TBHer a demon for having a different view?

Limbo! That was a common word growing up in southeast Louisiana. Stillborn babies, babies not christened, the mentally unsound, etc would go to limbo.

I thought he was the vicker of Christ on earth, thus speaking on his behalf?
According to.......?
JLivi1224 is online now   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:17 PM   #383
Tracy moss
Four Point
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Buna
Hunt In: buna
Default

He the vicker of Christ only for the Catholics beliefs . Christians have a personal relationship with Jesus no need for a mediator
Tracy moss is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:21 PM   #384
Landrover
Pope & Young
 
Landrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Spring
Hunt In: Wherever & Whenever
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post
According to.......?
Thank Tracy below for your answer......lol!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy moss View Post
He the vicker of Christ only for the Catholics beliefs . Christians have a personal relationship with Jesus no need for a mediator
So, Catholics are not Christians?
Landrover is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:29 PM   #385
RiverRat1
Pope & Young
 
RiverRat1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leander
Hunt In: San Saba
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landrover View Post
I thought he was the vicker of Christ on earth, thus speaking on his behalf?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy moss View Post
He the vicker of Christ only for the Catholics beliefs . Christians have a personal relationship with Jesus no need for a mediator
And this is a HUGE reason people don't believe in God. People screw things up so bad to the point people give up. Lots of these "Christian" churches like Mormonism have gone from pure non-Christian to beats the crap out of me if they're Christian at this point. It's plain stupid. Catholics have changed a lot of the years also..same with many others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landrover View Post
Thank Tracy below for your answer......lol!

So, Catholics are not Christians?
Depends on who you ask. Religions change like the wind as they try to get more people. It's plain wrong.

I know that there are a few big "Christian" religions that claim to have the one current day prophet. They each claim they are the only true religion. So if they say it does that make them non-Christian if they're not the true church? Beats me.
RiverRat1 is online now   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:30 PM   #386
Tracy moss
Four Point
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Buna
Hunt In: buna
Default

My personal beliefs! someone in the Roman Catholic Church will bring in the one world religion and it not what people think it is . It will be that the Roman Catholic Church will say all of the main stream religions. Christianity ,Judaism ,Hinduism,Buddhism,Islamic,etc .they will say that these religions worships the same GOD but in different ways .but born again Christians will see through these lies. Keep an eye out for this .But hey that’s what I think and study about .
Tracy moss is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:33 PM   #387
eradicator
Pope & Young
 
eradicator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Arlington,TX/Pecos County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy moss View Post
My personal beliefs! someone in the Roman Catholic Church will bring in the one world religion and it not what people think it is . It will be that the Roman Catholic Church will say all of the main stream religions. Christianity ,Judaism ,Hinduism,Buddhism,Islamic,etc .they will say that these religions worships the same GOD but in different ways .but born again Christians will see through these lies. Keep an eye out for this .But hey that’s what I think and study about .
So you just discredited all of the old world religions, lol?
eradicator is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:36 PM   #388
Landrover
Pope & Young
 
Landrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Spring
Hunt In: Wherever & Whenever
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy moss View Post
My personal beliefs! someone in the Roman Catholic Church will bring in the one world religion and it not what people think it is . It will be that the Roman Catholic Church will say all of the main stream religions. Christianity ,Judaism ,Hinduism,Buddhism,Islamic,etc .they will say that these religions worships the same GOD but in different ways .but born again Christians will see through these lies. Keep an eye out for this .But hey that’s what I think and study about .
I will stop right there.
Landrover is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:37 PM   #389
JLivi1224
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Hunt In: Polk County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landrover View Post
Thank Tracy below for your answer......lol!

So, Catholics are not Christians?

When the veil was torn upon Christ’s crusifixion and death, the need for mediator was clearly no more.

Not my words, but sums it up well-
In a sense, the veil was symbolic of Christ Himself as the only way to the Father (John 14:6). This is indicated by the fact that the high priest had to enter the Holy of Holies through the veil. Now Christ is our superior High Priest, and as believers in His finished work, we partake of His better priesthood. We can now enter the Holy of Holies through Him. Hebrews 10:19-20 says that the faithful enter into the sanctuary by the “blood of Jesus, by the new and living way which he opened for us through the veil, that is, through his flesh.” Here we see the image of Jesus’ flesh being torn for us just as He was tearing the veil for us.


In summation, the pope is a man. Nothing more.

Last edited by JLivi1224; 03-18-2018 at 06:40 PM.
JLivi1224 is online now   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:40 PM   #390
JLivi1224
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Hunt In: Polk County
Default

“Religion” is the problem gents. People have been adding to the Word for thousands of years. The Word is the Word, people! Don’t add to it and don’t take from it.
JLivi1224 is online now   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:42 PM   #391
Tracy moss
Four Point
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Buna
Hunt In: buna
Default

Sure they are Christians they are Catholics by name .but not if they are not truly born again accepting Jesus Christ as there savior . I just don’t refer the pope as vicker of Christ . He is a sinner just like us with a huge title in the Catholic Church!
Tracy moss is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:44 PM   #392
Tracy moss
Four Point
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Buna
Hunt In: buna
Default

I wished God would help me get my avatar turned around!!LOL
Tracy moss is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:48 PM   #393
justin81
Eight Point
 
justin81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Lonsdale MN
Hunt In: TX, MN, SD
Default

sickly astro physicist dies.... religious debate started. It's a interesting rock we live on.
justin81 is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:49 PM   #394
Landrover
Pope & Young
 
Landrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Spring
Hunt In: Wherever & Whenever
Default

How about the Jewish population, do they go to heaven?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy moss View Post
I wished God would help me get my avatar turned around!!LOL
That would be helpful, nice deer though!
Landrover is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:50 PM   #395
Roy Munson
Six Point
 
Roy Munson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Default

I have seen more than a few references to being "born again" in this thread.

For those of you that consider yourselves "born again," if you were raised a Christian, what age did you turn away from Christ, what age did you become "born again" and most importantly, what events precipitated being "born again?"
Roy Munson is online now   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 06:58 PM   #396
Roy Munson
Six Point
 
Roy Munson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin81 View Post
sickly astro physicist dies.... religious debate started. It's a interesting rock we live on.

I've referred to people diagnosed and living with ALS a lot of things but never referred to them as "sickly."

Its a devastating disease and it takes a huge pair of balls to wake up every day and continue fighting an unwinnable battle.
Roy Munson is online now   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 07:01 PM   #397
Chase This!
Pope & Young
 
Chase This!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Off the shelf
Hunt In: Where the big deer roam
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy moss View Post
He the vicker of Christ only for the Catholics beliefs . Christians have a personal relationship with Jesus no need for a mediator
So who’s right? Flip a coin?
Chase This! is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 07:13 PM   #398
justin81
Eight Point
 
justin81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Lonsdale MN
Hunt In: TX, MN, SD
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Munson View Post
I've referred to people diagnosed and living with ALS a lot of things but never referred to them as "sickly."

Its a devastating disease and it takes a huge pair of balls to wake up every day and continue fighting an unwinnable battle.
sickly may have been the wrong wording, but was mostly trying to figure out how this thread turned into a religious debate.

There are a lot of religions on this earth, trying to figure out or debate which one is right seems like a fools errand. Especially in a thread about a theorists that died.

edited to add I'm having a few drinks so just sifting through the mud here
justin81 is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 07:16 PM   #399
Landrover
Pope & Young
 
Landrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Spring
Hunt In: Wherever & Whenever
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin81 View Post
sickly may have been the wrong wording, but was mostly trying to figure out how this thread turned into a religious debate.

There are a lot of religions on this earth, trying to figure out or debate which one is right seems like a fools errand. Especially in a thread about a theorists that died.

edited to add I'm having a few drinks so just sifting through the mud here
You are wise beyond your years........or number of adult beverages!
Landrover is offline   Back To The Top
Old 03-18-2018, 07:36 PM   #400
RiverRat1
Pope & Young
 
RiverRat1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leander
Hunt In: San Saba
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase This! View Post
So who’s right? Flip a coin?
More like a 20 sided dice.

IMO if one claims to be Christian they should believe in the Bible. Otherwise they're just making up whatever they want as they go along. Either believe in the Bible or don't.

I know you probably don't believe in the Bible either and I do realize all of y'all non-believer questions are loaded....so not sure why I answer.
RiverRat1 is online now   Back To The Top
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1999-2012, TexasBowhunter.com