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Old 02-20-2018, 10:49 AM   #1
Playa
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Default Holding a child back (4th grade)

My wife and I are considering holding my son back this year, he is a 4th grader. Technically he is an A/B student, but it is artificially inflated because the school allows for grades to be corrected to passing, for most assignments and even some tests. This practice is asinine in my opinion, but thatís another discussion.

We have tried both carrot and stick. Kid has basically been grounded since thanksgiving due to grades. We are so frustrated. His homework takes 2+ hours per day with my wifeís watch care & assistance. But he continues to struggle to demonstrate a level of responsibility and proficiency.

He is one of the youngest if not the youngest in his entire class. I think this has some to do with it. We are hoping a year to mature and review the concepts of the 4th grade will help.

We donít expect straigh Aís but failing grades and ďI forgotĒ just isnít acceptable.

Anyone held a kid back this late? We considered it in the 2nd grade but his teacher encouraged us just to continue to work with him, but that hasnít seemed to work.
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:54 AM   #2
Mike D
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Man, I feel your pain. We have fought this with our son through his entire school time. Early on I feel he truly struggled but as he got to jr high and now SR high school, a lot of it is laziness on his part. Since he has been allowed to skate and turn stuff in late and not be held accountable for his actions (or lack thereof) he has just become to think that is the norm and acceptable.

We have done the same as you with carrot and stick but it hasnít made a whole lot of difference and itís extremely frustrating.

Unfortunately I donít have any advice for you as we have done everything we know to do from the parent side and it still continues into his senior year.


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Old 02-20-2018, 10:58 AM   #3
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We held my son back in first grade, like yours he was youngest in his class ( July birthday). I wanted to hold him back in kinder but teacher explained there really wasn't any point in that. We also discovered he has an inner ear problem and couldn't hear and since surgery there has been a world of difference.

Now I will play devils advocate and tell you what so many are against and don't want to hear.... look into learning disabilities. Like ADD and dyslexia. My son was diagnosed with ADD and is medicated for it. He now enjoys school work and goes out of his way to participate. I know there are so many people totally against this medication, but truth be told it's a real disability. I myself have it and have taken medication since high school. I wouldn't be where I am today without being diagnosed and would have given up and just settled for any old run of the mill job.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:02 AM   #4
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Ask the teachers if they think he has ADD. They aren't allowed to say anything unless asked. My son was the same way and my wife (a teacher) said he was. I'm old school and said he just needed his butt busted. Finally in fourth grade we put him on meds. Wow what a difference.
My son was never hyper or disrespectful but his brain just doesn't process like most do. Also I would have no problem with holding back a fourth grader if that's what you determine is best.


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Old 02-20-2018, 11:02 AM   #5
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If you feel he needs it, he probably does. . You may also check into having him tested for any learning disabilities. I talked to a mother of a student I coached who always struggled in school. She is now 26 and they just realized she has vision problem and when she reads, her eyes see 2 different lines at the same time. She refused to try college because she felt dumb. Her problem was corrected with glasses and she is now going to college and making a's and B's.

If he is into athletics, it will be a big benefit once he gets into high school. Lots of growing goes on around 17-18 in boys. Of course, that is coming from the perspective of a coach

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Old 02-20-2018, 11:05 AM   #6
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I was held back in the 2nd grade because of "maturity" issues ( I would have rather played and drawn pictures on my assignments)and it was the best thing that could have happened. In that one year I matured and was lucky enough to get a teacher that knew how to bring the best out in me.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:18 AM   #7
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If you feel he needs it, he probably does. . You may also check into having him tested for any learning disabilities. I talked to a mother of a student I coached who always struggled in school. She is now 26 and they just realized she has vision problem and when she reads, her eyes see 2 different lines at the same time. She refused to try college because she felt dumb. Her problem was corrected with glasses and she is now going to college and making a's and B's.

If he is into athletics, it will be a big benefit once he gets into high school. Lots of growing goes on around 17-18 in boys. Of course, that is coming from the perspective of a coach
That’s part of the problem, kid has zero motivation and goals and no self discipline. He is adequately intelligent enough for academics and a natural athlete, but forget about him going and shooting hoops or practicing catching pop flies on his own. If it isn’t friends or electronics he doesent seem to care, that is why we thought grounding him from those would motivate him to perform better. He does have trouble focusing but from what I can tell it’s not any more than an average boy his age.

He just has no drive which is hard for my wife and I to comprehend as we are both high achievers. I can relate a little because I skated by on my wit and charm stating about the 7th grade. I want better for him.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:18 AM   #8
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My wife and I too are on the fence about this topic. Our son is in 4th grade and has never taken to school like his sister did. We did have him tested for dyslexia and he does have it. He is in the Scottish Rite Program for it and this year has been a learning year for us all. His reading has gotten better but he still has that "I dont know, I cant remember" attitude. He is a very smart child and is sharp as a tack BUT his lack of confidence in himself in the classroom is his biggest hurdle. We are trying to decide if he should be held back now in the 4th grade to try to get him caught up instead of waiting till later and him being behind the rest of the class next year and beyond.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:24 AM   #9
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I'm on the fence on this one, but it really does sound like something worth considering, given he'll have a year to mature and be one of the oldest instead of the youngest, which may help his test scores in high school as he considers college.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:25 AM   #10
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My youngest, the teachers thought we should have held back in K. We didn't until grade 3. He too has a late (JULY) birthday, plus Aspergers, so it was the right thing for him in 3rd. He would finally catch up with the others (maturity) about the end of the year but be behind them again at the start of the next school session. Holding him back helped some. He did not really have a problem repeating 3rd grade and scored fairly well. His friends were a grade ahead but that became a non issue after about a year.

I will say this, You are the parents, you know best. If school work is getting into your time to be together as a family and frustrating everybody involved, something needs to change. He will never like school if he knows it will make Mom and Dad upset. Grades aren't everything, effort is, just like you said.

Alternatives may need to be looked at before middle school starts.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:33 AM   #11
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The school’s homework system is broken, and that is a losing battle I’m willing to take up. The amount of homework they assign is sillly and leaves little time to be a kid. And they do not have a checks and balances system in place for parents. He will be missing assignments we don’t even know he has

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Old 02-20-2018, 11:39 AM   #12
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My parents held me back in 4th grade. They said years later it was a big mistake. Today tutoring is the way to go.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:41 AM   #13
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Best thing we ever did for both our kids. My son was one of the youngest in his class and we didn't want him to graduate while he was still 17. Now my daughter has dyslexia and with her we really had too. We do not regret it. There will be some for it and some against it but to tell you the truth it is what you and your wife think is best for your child.

Oh we didn't hold my son back until the 6th grade, it is the parents right until the reach 8th grade I do believe. My daughter was held back in the 1st grade after testing.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:48 AM   #14
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very tough and touchy subject. we are going through the same thing with our 8 year old daughter. We just had her tested at the Scottish Rite Institute for dyslexia and ADD and she has both. in fact i'm about to go pick up my daughter and we are heading to her pediatrician to discuss the results and start her on meds, which i was very against in the beginning but because of her learning disabilities and frustration i've learn to be more open about it. its been a very difficult 6-7 months. if you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask.

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Old 02-20-2018, 11:50 AM   #15
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I personally think you should hold him back
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:51 AM   #16
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I would have to agree with the person above that said if you think he needs to be held, he probably does. Listen to your gut. I often regret not holding my youngest back a year. His case was a little different. He was put into the PACE program, (for gifted and talented kids) by his teachers early on (1st grade) but he too had no motivation to do anything. Everything was easy for him both academically and athletically. As time went on, as things became harder, he just quit trying. He would move on to the next easiest path. We had him tested for ADD (passed with flying colors). We also tried the grounding approach. Didn't work. He didn't care about anything passionately enough to make a change.

He's now in college and the same symptoms carried forward. It wasn't until he turned 21 that a light seemed to go on (well at least it's burning dimly) and he transferred to a different college and major and is doing great. He learned he needed to get away from comfortable and friends to succeed.

Long way of saying I am convinced if we would have held him, it would have only helped. Maturity is everything. Good luck with your decision.

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Old 02-20-2018, 11:53 AM   #17
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We held our daughter back after Kindergarten. Like some above she was very young and her teacher encouraged it. She had the same teacher the next year and there was a very noticeable difference. Our son will be two weeks younger than my daughter was when it's time for him to start so we've already been discussing if we should just wait a year before enrolling him.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:57 AM   #18
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Congratulations on being an active parent and taking interest in your child's education. My wife has been teaching at the elementary level for 38 years and the biggest problem is the parents have no idea what is going on in their child's classroom teaching and don't care. Also teachers in this school district are not allowed to hold back the student and if they do...whoa, they will hear it during their meetings. This school system is hanging on by a thread and administration is a big problem.

I would hold him back and let him mature a bit.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:01 PM   #19
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Also on our son we got a lot of slack from the district as to wanting to hold him back. It finally came down to me telling them I am the parent and it is my decision and not theirs. I did take in consideration their input, but in the end only you and your wife know what is best for your child.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:09 PM   #20
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I was held back in 2nd grade. Primarily this was because of a move to a different school district where the new school district was several months ahead in the curriculum and I just never got caught up. Technically I did pass, barely. At the time it made me mad that I was being held back. My second year in 2nd grade though went MUCH better because I remembered some of the things that was covered and this helped me to get a better grasp on things.


Looking back on it now I realize how beneficial it was. If my daughter were having issues in school then I would not hesitate to hold her back.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:09 PM   #21
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We have a 4yr old son with an August 9th birthday. He could start Kinder next year, but just yesterday we confirmed with each other that we would wait another year.

Good luck OP!
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:09 PM   #22
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I was held back in the second grade, My birthday is in august. It was the best thing my parents could have don't for me. I was on track with all the other kids after that. My brother, also an august birthday, was held back before he started. Me and my wife have already decided to hold our 2 boys back. I'm a believer. good luck.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:14 PM   #23
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Hold him back. He'll gain a competitive advantage in sports and be one of the first to get his drivers license, which will help him with girls. Very, very important stuff to consider.

But seriously, you're his parents, I'd trust your gut.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:17 PM   #24
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I wasn't held back and graduated at a young 17. Grades were never an issue, always had older friends, and matured quickly. My only issue was I loved sports but was too small the majority of high school. By the time I was big and fast enough to play I had burned out trying/practicing so hard and riding the pine for 3 years that I gave it up. At this stage of the game I'd say it would be ok to hold him back, my concern would be how the kids in his school and he handle that. Kids can be down right nasty these days and really pick on him about being held back, could cause a big spiral down hill for his grades and attitude in my opinion.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:18 PM   #25
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My wife was smart enough to start both of our kids later. September and June birthdays. It is night and day when their younger friends are over to hang out. I think it was the best decision for maturity levels. Go with your gut.

I hope my son is 6í5 and 220 his senior year but I doubt it. Lol.


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Old 02-20-2018, 12:29 PM   #26
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My wife works in the school systems all ages, the jist is... wait, always wait especially with a summer birthday, and especially with a boy.

Our son was born in May, and we held him in pre k for another year, it's been an excellent decision. we've watched him go from a shy kid that would fit in to the class to a leader, that is ahead of the class. Maybe not so much academically but just personality.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:33 PM   #27
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We held our son back in 2nd grade. He was the youngest of his class. This was the best thing we did I think. He was making A's and B's as well, but was struggling to keep up. Now he's in 4th and loves school and making straight A's.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:43 PM   #28
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While I was in school I was one of the oldest and my younger brother was the youngest in his class. Oddly enough I had no issues going through school and sports but my brother did.

My wife and I will be starting our daughter late in school (holding her back a year) because she needs that extra time to mature.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:52 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Playa View Post
My wife and I are considering holding my son back this year, he is a 4th grader. Technically he is an A/B student, but it is artificially inflated because the school allows for grades to be corrected to passing, for most assignments and even some tests. This practice is asinine in my opinion, but thatís another discussion.

We have tried both carrot and stick. Kid has basically been grounded since thanksgiving due to grades. We are so frustrated. His homework takes 2+ hours per day with my wifeís watch care & assistance. But he continues to struggle to demonstrate a level of responsibility and proficiency.

He is one of the youngest if not the youngest in his entire class. I think this has some to do with it. We are hoping a year to mature and review the concepts of the 4th grade will help.

We donít expect straigh Aís but failing grades and ďI forgotĒ just isnít acceptable.

Anyone held a kid back this late? We considered it in the 2nd grade but his teacher encouraged us just to continue to work with him, but that hasnít seemed to work.
Do it, we really wish we would have done it with our daughter.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:56 PM   #30
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Default Holding a child back (4th grade)

Interesting.

We have 2 girls. Age 12 and 10. The 12 year old was born in September. The 10 year old in August.

My 12 year old had to wait a year to start school based on her birthday. She is the oldest, most mature student in her class. All Aís since day 1.

My 10 year old started school on time. She really has struggled since day 1...especially with math.

Weíve had several talks with teachers about it...not one time has holding her back crossed our minds or been mentioned to us.

Hmmm. Something to think about for sure.

Good luck with your decision.

And about the homework amount. Thankfully my kids school does not issue homework just for extra learning/practice. If the kids do not complete their class work during the allotted time at school, it becomes homework. My youngest was having to finish her work at home almost every day at the beginning of the year...now, I canít remember the last time she had homework that didnít take her just a few minutes to complete if she even had any at all. Iím assuming that means she is beginning to grasp things and can finish her work at school. We are about due for a parent/teacher meeting to discuss progress. We will see.


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Old 02-20-2018, 01:08 PM   #31
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I suppose I am the odd man out. I have a late birthday, October, and was always youngest in my class. Though it sometimes made things tougher, it made me tougher. I developed tenacity and competitiveness by making it a personal mission to beat the kids that were in some cases a full year older.

Second, to hell with grades. There is a time for grades but elementary school is not it. Is your son grasping the information? There is a huge difference between learning ability and work ethic, and grades alone at this age do not equip parents with enough information to differentiate between the two. If your son knows the material but is lazy with homework and doesnít try on tests, then he probably isnít being challenged enough. He is probably much smarter than anyone is giving him credit for. However, if he is struggling to keep up and requires a lot of extra help just to get by, then perhaps holding him back is a consideration...but so is busting out some extra effort and working hard to achieve something that isnít easy.

Unless the child is truly struggling to keep up, is having a hard time grasping the information, and just isnít in the right spot developmentally, I do not advocate gaming the system and holding them back just for a temporary benefit of being dominant due to age. That evaporates immediately upon high school graduation, where the diligence and confidence built from having to fight and work harder will benefit the individual for a lifetime.
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:09 PM   #32
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Donít hold him back. It will be social suicide at this point especially if he is passing and truly doesnít need it. Tutor him in areas that you feel he lacks in. Every district is doing the same things. My boy gets a 30 on a paper and is allowed to correct it for 70. I can ask him the questions and he knows the answers. In his case he would rather scribble something down and get done so he can go play or have ďfree timeĒ on their stupid tablets.
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:30 PM   #33
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I was a June baby and my parents wanted to hold me back as all I cared about was fishing. My brother was the smart one. School has always been hard for me maybe because I was one of the youngest but it really pushed you. Once I got into athletics and you couldn't play unless you passed that started to straighten me up a bit. In college I was never required to go to football tutoring mainly since that was my time and I made sure to do good enough to not go. Just need to find that passion maybe that he needs to focus and with towards.
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:33 PM   #34
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I coached with a guy who had twins, a boy and a girl. The boy was a good athlete but was small for his age. They held him back his 7th grade year, but the girl went to 8th grade. It made a big difference in him his senior year. He finally grew some and had a really good senior year in sports. He would not have had that opportunity if they hadn't held him back.
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:36 PM   #35
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Just received 4 more grade alerts all 60ís or less.


Quote:
Originally Posted by super_dave View Post
Donít hold him back. It will be social suicide at this point especially if he is passing and truly doesnít need it. Tutor him in areas that you feel he lacks in. Every district is doing the same things. My boy gets a 30 on a paper and is allowed to correct it for 70. I can ask him the questions and he knows the answers. In his case he would rather scribble something down and get done so he can go play or have ďfree timeĒ on their stupid tablets.
Social suicide? You think Iím all that concerned with his social agenda right now? And actually most of his best friends are in the grade below.... that is actually another item my wife and I discussed, the kids in his class arent inviting him to their bday parties etc, so in a way he is already a social outcast
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:37 PM   #36
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PM Sent
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:40 PM   #37
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Quote:
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Just received 4 more grade alerts all 60ís or less.









Social suicide? You think Iím all that concerned with his social agenda right now? And actually most of his best friends are in the grade below.... that is actually another item my wife and I discussed, the kids in his class arent inviting him to their bday parties etc, so in a way he is already a social outcast


No, I know youíre not worried about that, but is he? If he said he wished he was in the class with his buddies, then hold him back. But most kids are concerned what their peers will think, not their buds
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:46 PM   #38
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I had the same issues with my son, we held him back in 1st grade, due to the fact that the teacher gave up on him.. she just would not work with him, we moved to Caddo Mills, and there he was placed in special glasses, but all's they did was enable him,, reading to him and asking him the answer, 4 years later he graduated.. but could not truly read is real bad dyslectic, his writhing was/is atrocious,, he tried join the military , but could not pass any of the branches test,
If I could do it over, no special classes, pay for tutoring by someone that truly would help... The new school system is such a disappointment, IMO
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:46 PM   #39
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Donít hold him back. It will be social suicide at this point especially if he is passing and truly doesnít need it. Tutor him in areas that you feel he lacks in. Every district is doing the same things. My boy gets a 30 on a paper and is allowed to correct it for 70. I can ask him the questions and he knows the answers. In his case he would rather scribble something down and get done so he can go play or have ďfree timeĒ on their stupid tablets.


Agreed on the social issue it might bring.


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Old 02-20-2018, 01:46 PM   #40
AZST_bowhunter
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Originally Posted by Playa View Post
Just received 4 more grade alerts all 60ís or less.




Social suicide? You think Iím all that concerned with his social agenda right now? And actually most of his best friends are in the grade below.... that is actually another item my wife and I discussed, the kids in his class arent inviting him to their bday parties etc, so in a way he is already a social outcast
Do what you feel is best for your child, in the end it is your child. My wife is a teacher and talks about the maturity of her kids all the time (more mature the better the grades). Personally, it sounds to me like your child already has the most important thing needed, parents that care.. Best of luck in your decision, these kind of things will come up in mine and my wife's future, expecting our first in September.

FYI my baby bro had ADD and temper issues, got put on the meds and it changed his personality (was fun and loving when he wasn't throwing a tantrum) became dull, sluggish and withdrawn. Dad took him off it and said if he screwed up in school was not playing baseball or going hunting.. Worked like a charm!!

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Old 02-20-2018, 01:48 PM   #41
SCREAMINREELS
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Have y'all considered a private tutor? Some kids learn better in specific ways adults are the same.
Figuring out what his learning style is can be very beneficial and allow him to grasp concepts easier

My nephew is autistic and it was not doing well in Special Ed he ended up with a great private tutor that he sees about 4 days a week and was able to move into normal classes and he's actually doing well in them now because the tutor teaches him in a different way then the teacher does. It kept him from failing and actually got him caught up and possibly going to college in the future now
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:48 PM   #42
super_dave
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Agreed on the social issue it might bring.


Skinny


Yeah, if it was a sure thang education issue, Iíd be all for it. But this is just the way school districts operate now.
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:51 PM   #43
Skinny
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Thankfully my kids go to a very small school. Like 10-15 students in their class...the teachers are able to spend a little bit more time assisting the kiddos that seem to be struggling.

One thing I just remembered was that in our last parent/teacher conference was that the teacher was having issues with all of the students grasping the math they were doing. They did not have the basics down...blame the past teachers? Maybe. She pretty much took a month to rewind a bit and had them practicing some math fundamentals. I think that was a good move on her part.


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Old 02-20-2018, 10:51 PM   #44
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I am a believer in holding them back, or at least a late start if they have a summer birthday. My wife was against starting my son later but our circumstances were such that we did wait a year before he started. In the long run, I was very glad we did. I have a grandson with a July birthday but couldn't talk him mom into holding off on starting him.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:16 PM   #45
TexasAg2002
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I was held back in the 4th grade due to the same reasons. Grades, age, and behavior. It was the bet thing my parents could have done for me in school.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:21 PM   #46
Maddox
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I held my son back in Kindergarten (made him go twice, once to private, once to public). A year of maturity goes a long way, especially in years 1-24. My advice would be not to wait to long. If you think he needs to be held back, do it now.
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Old 02-21-2018, 02:08 AM   #47
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My son was born in July, and my wife was hell bent on starting him in Kindergarten this year. He is a really smart kid, you can see the lack of maturity compared to the other kids. Do him a favor now and hold him back. I wish we would have waited and started him late.
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:23 AM   #48
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Boys, more so than girls, usually do better if given the opportunity to run and play and be free. Girls are usually more social and want to sit and listen and talk. Having raised 7 kids, I've seen what really makes kids do better. Some of the teachers for younger grades can give the best observations.

oh look...what is that?
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:22 AM   #49
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I can't get my kid out of public school fast enough, and you want an extra year there?

Sounds like he would benefit from smaller class sizes or a different setting.

Public school isn't for everyone.
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:36 AM   #50
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Never hold a kid back. Keep working with him.
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