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Old 04-24-2018, 10:36 AM   #1
elliscountyhog
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Default FINALLY!! Signed Contract. Need Atty

After years and years of trying to buy this river land we have a signed contract to do so. HOWEVER, our biggest issue to getting closed is going to be easments and access. Do we have any one that wants to do some legal battles in the DFW area for land easements?
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Old 04-24-2018, 10:46 AM   #2
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Congrats to you but I’m sure any attorney would have preferred to be involved prior to you signing a contract.
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Old 04-24-2018, 10:59 AM   #3
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Congrats to you but Iím sure any attorney would have preferred to be involved prior to you signing a contract.
Thanks. I wouldn't waste an atty time or money if I did not have a deal ready to go.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:02 AM   #4
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Talk to your title company about the easements. They will be a lot cheaper than an attorney. Or get your title commitment and start researching the easements yourself.

Not trying to be a smart A, but if you dont have access, you dont really have a deal. Unless you have a helo
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:11 AM   #5
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Talk to your title company about the easements. They will be a lot cheaper than an attorney. Or get your title commitment and start researching the easements yourself.

Not trying to be a smart A, but if you dont have access, you dont really have a deal. Unless you have a helo
Was hoping to find someone on here that had experience to use. I have a deal as I have river access and can still get to the land No helo needed.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:27 AM   #6
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You buying Johns land finally? I tried buying that land for years. Good luck. I hope you get it for a good price and get the easements. It's a pain trying to figure out.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:28 AM   #7
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Love to help but I'm a distance away. Not sure if Muygrande does real estate transactions.

What's your option period and what's your title objection period?
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:44 AM   #8
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I actually have some experience with this as I had a piece of property on a logging canal with no actual deeded easement as all 9 owners in the bottom area I was in used the same shared ROW that was never legally recorded. My "worst case scenario" was kayaking 300 yards up the canal for access.

I can't actually do anything, but I can tell you what we learned throughout the process.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:46 AM   #9
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Good luck!

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Old 04-24-2018, 11:49 AM   #10
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So I will give you the layout and see what you guys think. There was a county road that went to a easement. That county road was "annexed" by a local farmer. He then through up gates and locks and gave keys to the landowners to use. However, those landowners are not sure if there is a legal easement that was done once the county road was annexed. My cousin obtained a key to that gate on a small piece of land he bought down there last week. He threatened the farmer to go to the court and have a legal easement put in place. Guess his bluff worked because he gave him a key and told him he was ok to use it. This place uses the exact same road.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
You buying Johns land finally? I tried buying that land for years. Good luck. I hope you get it for a good price and get the easements. It's a pain trying to figure out.
His land is still there. I bet he gets a little more motivated after this deal happens. I could use a good neighbor! JS
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by elliscountyhog View Post
That county road was "annexed" by a local farmer.
If the CR is a deeded ROW I dont see the farmer being able to annex the road, unless he owned all of the land around the ROW. Which it doesnt sound like he does.

If it were me I would start by getting the annexation documents from the title company, as well as any easement docs. They should all be recorded and available for you to analyze. You could also look for the CR on your appraisal district maps, to see if there is a dedicated ROW.

If it was a county road at one time, the county didnt build a road on private property.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:26 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by batmaninja View Post
If the CR is a deeded ROW I dont see the farmer being able to annex the road, unless he owned all of the land around the ROW. Which it doesnt sound like he does.

If it were me I would start by getting the annexation documents from the title company, as well as any easement docs. They should all be recorded and available for you to analyze. You could also look for the CR on your appraisal district maps, to see if there is a dedicated ROW.

If it was a county road at one time, the county didnt build a road on private property.
He owns all the land around the county road until the end of the county road which is where we are. Rumor is he made a "generious" donation to the county officials and in return they allowed him to annex several county roads down in this river bottom.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:28 PM   #14
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In my county I can search deeds & records on the county clerks website.
I was able to find some easements recently, and it helped to use the appraisal districts maps to find out the different landowners names.

Good luck.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:30 PM   #15
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Come on Richard! With all your money, just buy a chopper.
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:02 PM   #16
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Ehhhh, he may have you then. Hope you got a dry boat, with a strong motor

I havent done anything in Ellis County. But I have done road abandonment's in Houston. Its a long drawn out process, that is very very public process. My advice hasnt changed either, you should get the relevent documents, so they then can be reviewed.
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:07 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by elliscountyhog View Post
He owns all the land around the county road until the end of the county road which is where we are. Rumor is he made a "generious" donation to the county officials and in return they allowed him to annex several county roads down in this river bottom.
I guess I am missing something. How do you now own land off of said county road if the farmer owns it all?
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elliscountyhog View Post
His land is still there. I bet he gets a little more motivated after this deal happens. I could use a good neighbor! JS
I'd buy John's place. But I have a feeling someone else that's closer would buy it first But if he doesn't or only wants half he better let me know. Heck I'd be the perfect neighbor as I'd probably never set foot on the place except maybe to hunt a pig once in a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batmaninja View Post
If the CR is a deeded ROW I dont see the farmer being able to annex the road, unless he owned all of the land around the ROW. Which it doesnt sound like he does.

If it were me I would start by getting the annexation documents from the title company, as well as any easement docs. They should all be recorded and available for you to analyze. You could also look for the CR on your appraisal district maps, to see if there is a dedicated ROW.

If it was a county road at one time, the county didnt build a road on private property.
He blocked off the road years (like decades) ago. After a certain time frame, which was a long time, the County just said he owned it at that point and they were no longer liable for repairs.

I looked into it as best I could for a long time and I'm a surveyor and couldn't figure it out.
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:14 PM   #19
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He still can't landlock you. There's a process you'll have to go through if he decides not to honor access down that road. I'm guessing that's his plan if he went through the hassle of "annexing" it to begin with.

1. You'll have to sue for access through the county courthouse.
2. The court will review your claim that you are landlocked and render a verdict.
3. All parties will submit their reasons for/against access being granted through their property. If he's the only one, he's not going to win.
4. A route of access (easement) will be granted. That doesn't necessarily translate to the route you prefer. If the court deems a less intrusive route exists that you may have to drive an additional 20 miles to get to, that might be the route they grant.

But they'll grant you a route. You can't be landlocked in the State of Texas.
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Take Dead Aim View Post
I guess I am missing something. How do you now own land off of said county road if the farmer owns it all?
The county road went nearly all the way to the river. One farmer, over many years, ended up with most of the land. A couple older guys owned a little land at the end but didn't care when he gated off the road. Gate is about 2 miles from the end of the old road.

Now ellis bought some land off one of the old guys. It's not a recorded easement I promise. But legal rights to access is a ?
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
He blocked off the road years (like decades) ago. After a certain time frame, which was a long time, the County just said he owned it at that point and they were no longer liable for repairs.
So is there a recorded deed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elliscountyhog View Post
Rumor is he made a "generious" donation to the county officials.
He could have been paying the property taxes, and going after the adverse possession angle. From what has been stated here, I think he checks most of the boxes for AP.
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:52 PM   #22
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Good luck
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:56 PM   #23
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He still can't landlock you.

But they'll grant you a route. You can't be landlocked in the State of Texas.
Nailed it!
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Old 04-24-2018, 02:02 PM   #24
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I would have a hard time believing a title company would close on a deal without legal access being given. It would be very uncommon in Texas. As stated above you can't be land locked. Now that doesn't mean you wont have to go thru gates but you will have access.
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Old 04-24-2018, 02:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Take Dead Aim View Post
I would have a hard time believing a title company would close on a deal without legal access being given. It would be very uncommon in Texas. As stated above you can't be land locked. Now that doesn't mean you wont have to go thru gates but you will have access.
True, but the easement may cost you more than the land did.
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Old 04-24-2018, 02:08 PM   #26
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I would have a hard time believing a title company would close on a deal without legal access being given. It would be very uncommon in Texas. As stated above you can't be land locked. Now that doesn't mean you wont have to go thru gates but you will have access.
Yep. My place is at the dead end of a long private road which is an easement that spans several different surveys. Took me and a realtor a lot of time to find a few missing surveys to show a connection between the State highway and my property. I wasn't going to get financed without it.
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Old 04-24-2018, 02:13 PM   #27
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True, but the easement may cost you more than the land did.
Yep, on my place, the guy who owned the land that the road went through tried to argue an alternative route that would've require 2 miles of road through heavily treed areas and multiple culverts. And it can seem like there is no way the court would agree with something so silly, but judges have a way of having a lot of relatives in certain areas they may be inclined to agree with.

I sold it and never looked back. Lost 10k or so, but screw it.
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:31 PM   #28
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But they'll grant you a route. You can't be landlocked in the State of Texas.
Agreed.

A retired judge bought up a bunch of dirt around us to include the place that starts at the end of the county rd. When we refused to sell to him he said he would land lock us and force the sale. We didnt sell and he installed a gate. A quick call to a friend who's brothers are county commissioners and the gate got turned into a metal pretzel via track hoe
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:40 PM   #29
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True, but the easement may cost you more than the land did.
I don't think the land can be sold without it in Texas. Doesn't cost anything. You don't own an easement. You own the right to drive on an easement in this case. The farmer can't charge you for access he must allow you to drive thru freely. He can put up 50 gates in a 1 mile stretch if he wanted too.
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:59 PM   #30
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Don't mean to derail the thread but I have question relating to this discussion. Let's say someone owns land that has a use easement through it that goes to 5-10 or so lots/houses on acreage. There is no legal easement, but it is used as one with no issues. Let's say one of the people who travels on this route to get to their homestead, wants to one day, subdivide their land. Would the landowner who owns the land that the people drive on have the right to deny them from subdividing their landlocked place since all the traffic will have to go through their land?
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:03 PM   #31
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I think you will have to prove a easement of necessity is required. Which is probably going to take some time and money, I would do it before you close on your deal. I would also guess that if the farmer went through the required government channels to annex the property, and paid the county officials, he is probably prepared for a bit of a fight. Kind of odd timing that all of a sudden your land owner wants to sell, no?
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:31 PM   #32
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Unless you are paying cash, I don’t think a bank will finance the property without an easement in place. With Wells Fargo, I had to buy the property the easement was on before they would do it. It was only 0.274 acres for a 130 yard long driveway and the owner was easy to deal with. That was 10 years ago. I’m sure each bank has a variation of this policy though.

Last edited by dc1986; 04-24-2018 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Take Dead Aim View Post
I don't think the land can be sold without it in Texas. Doesn't cost anything. You don't own an easement. You own the right to drive on an easement in this case. The farmer can't charge you for access he must allow you to drive thru freely. He can put up 50 gates in a 1 mile stretch if he wanted too.
Itís not that thereís a cost for the easement. Itís that they can say the ingress is at x point and you are responsible for the pathway to x point and road costs, etc.

And you can absolutely sell land without it. Banks wonít finance it most often, but the sale can certainly occur.
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:19 PM   #34
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I dealt with several easement/access issues during my career with the US Forest Service.

Check out this paper by Judon Fambrough with the Texas A&M Real Estate Center.

https://assets.recenter.tamu.edu/doc...ticles/422.pdf
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