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Old 03-05-2018, 12:40 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Texas Grown View Post
Please, do explain the science behind this, so our brothers have a better educational understanding.



Thanks,
Electro-metallic Fusionist


I’d love to hear it as well. The idea of “dissolving” ice in water is hilarious...

I’m less entertained, and far more intrigued, by the notion that this action somehow produces salt on the outside of the vessel.

I’m never buying salt again!!


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Old 03-05-2018, 08:38 AM   #52
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So, can you freeze salt ?
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Old 03-05-2018, 09:27 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by TP3 View Post
Obviously not everyone on here understands science.
Please add grammar and punctuation to your list.
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Old 03-05-2018, 09:46 AM   #54
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The PVC is a very good insulator ,so it would stay frozen longer but the cooling efficiency would be terrible ( it would take too long to cool the box down) . The plastic soda bottles are thin walled and would probably be a wiser choice.
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Old 03-05-2018, 10:21 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by TWarren View Post
Adding salt to water in order to lower the freezing point is not necessarily a gain because it reduces the specific heat, or the amount of energy required to increase the mass of a substance 1° C.

In essence, salt water, while initially at a lower temperature, melts faster than pure water.

I'm no physicist so I'm probably butchering the definitions but it's worth pondering.
you are correct that specific heat is energy required to raise the temp by 1C. any handy reference on how much it impacts the specific heat? this certainly could mess with how long your stuff stays below a certain temp....

the other important quantity in this thing is "heat of fusion", which is energy required to undergo the solid to liquid phase transition. this is what determines how fast it will melt. the ice will sit right at it's feeezing point until it completely melts, thus absorbing the heat of fusion. salt may have same effect of lowering the heat of fusion, or may not, I don't know and don't remember easily googling up a reference.
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Old 03-05-2018, 10:25 AM   #56
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I've been using saltwater in PVC tubes for a few years and I really like them. I use them as a way to chill the inside of my coolers before I add drinks, food and ice. It has helped cut down a little on the amount of ice I need to purchase for weekend hunting trips or beach trips.
I keep the PVC tubes in my chest freezer until I need them. Place them in my coolers the night before, put the PVC tubes back in the chest freezer and then fill the coolers with what I need to keep cool and add ice.
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Old 03-05-2018, 11:59 AM   #57
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I thought if you owned a yeti, they made ice for themselves.. rendering these ice poles useless... or will the yeti ice recreate itself into perpetual ice tubes? wonder how long before Yeti picks this idea up and charges $50 per tube.
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Old 03-05-2018, 05:50 PM   #58
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I wondered why this thread was still active.

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Old 03-05-2018, 07:15 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Buck Slayer View Post
Pink himalayan salt, or sea salt?
Venezuelan Beaver Salt
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:15 PM   #60
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This thread is still alive because everyone loves science.

Haven't yall noticed the salt on the roads and bridges on cold mornings? That is ice salt. It is formed by already dissolved water freezing below the surface. Same principle as the pvc pipes.
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:18 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by batmaninja View Post
So, can you freeze salt ?
Of course. If it's colder than 32 it's freezing! That being said... It hasn't undergone a phase change or anything.

SCIENCE AND STUFF!!!!
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Old 03-05-2018, 07:55 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by TP3 View Post
This thread is still alive because everyone loves science.

Haven't yall noticed the salt on the roads and bridges on cold mornings? That is ice salt. It is formed by already dissolved water freezing below the surface. Same principle as the pvc pipes.
What!????

You are trolling
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Old 03-05-2018, 08:03 PM   #63
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What!????

You are trolling
I mostly fish with jug lines. Real jugs though, not PVC noodles.
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Old 03-05-2018, 09:15 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by TxAg View Post
What!????

You are trolling
He’s obviously trolling. Don’t fall in the trap.
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:58 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by TP3 View Post
This thread is still alive because everyone loves science.

Haven't yall noticed the salt on the roads and bridges on cold mornings? That is ice salt. It is formed by already dissolved water freezing below the surface. Same principle as the pvc pipes.
Science rulz....


I bought some of this Koolergel science stuff, recommended to be by Jimmy Houston himself.

Just mix it up in whatever bottles or PVC pipes you want and freeze. Lasts quite a while and they work great in coolers with food you don't want to get wet...or salty.

https://koolergel.com/product/koolergel/

Last edited by Texas276; 03-06-2018 at 08:59 AM. Reason: add more science
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:01 PM   #66
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Quote:
You can't explain science.
Either you get it or you don't.


Nobody explained it to Isaac Newton. The Apple fell on his head and then he knew science.

Ben Franklin flew a kite in the thunderstorm. Boom, science happened.
So in other words you're full of brown stuff

Quote:
Haven't yall noticed the salt on the roads and bridges on cold mornings? That is ice salt. It is formed by already dissolved water freezing below the surface. Same principle as the pvc pipes.
Or a certain establishment in North Austin is missing a patient.
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:12 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by bobc View Post
Now that is a good idea. I have quite a few of the ones from our Blue Apron trial run. They are quite large to use in their current form.
Works good. Cut the corner off them jokers and squeeze that mess in to a bottle or what ever. Doesn't expand as much as water and works great. We had some from one of those funky meals in a box and I tried it out. Sure can't use the bags it comes in cuz that stuff will certainly leak and it's nasty.
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:29 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Smokeater View Post
Works good. Cut the corner off them jokers and squeeze that mess in to a bottle or what ever. Doesn't expand as much as water and works great. We had some from one of those funky meals in a box and I tried it out. Sure can't use the bags it comes in cuz that stuff will certainly leak and it's nasty.
Over the last several days, I have filled 6 of the small Gatorade bottles and 6 water bottles. Used a few of them on Saturday and was happy with the results. Still have two of the big bags to use as soon as I save up some more bottles.d
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Old 03-06-2018, 04:17 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by batmaninja View Post
So, can you freeze salt ?
yes, freezing point of NaCl is 1474 F.
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Old 03-06-2018, 04:25 PM   #70
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This is from google and is where my line of thought came from. I think you got melting point boomer.

Ocean water freezes just like freshwater, but at lower temperatures. Fresh water freezes at 32 degrees Fahrenheit but seawater freezes at about 28.4 degrees Fahrenheit , because of the salt in it. When seawater freezes, however, the ice contains very little salt because only the water part freezes.

And possibly a justified hijack.

If you could get the right freezer, alcohol could be a better alternative than salty water

It depends on the alcohol content, but most wine will freeze at about 15 to 20 degrees F, and it would need to stay at that temperature for a while before it freezes solidly.

It is possible to freeze vodka, but not in a typical home freezer. The freezing point of 80 proof vodka is -26.95° C or -16.51° F, while the temperature of most home freezers is around -17° C
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Old 03-06-2018, 05:39 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by batmaninja View Post
When seawater freezes, however, the ice contains very little salt because only the water part freezes.[/I]
interesting info... my initial guess is that in an unconstrained environment (like the ocean) salt can just keep precipitating out as the water freezes, leaving less in the ice. i'd have to think about how a closed system (like our Gatorade bottles and capped pvc tubes) may affect things.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:50 PM   #72
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Ice cream salt works well
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:31 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by SKLOSS View Post
Saltwater freezes at a lower temp so the bottle with regular water is going to thaw faster. Think of it this way, the regular water bottle is a fridge set at 32 degrees and the salt water bottle is a freezer set at 25 degrees( or whatever temp salt water freezes at). Is the steak going to thaw faster in the fridge or freezer?


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I may have just came up with something brilliant... Maybe. So bare with me. You buy a $400 yeti to save ice and you are not impressed. So you get out your old dusty igloo and then go buy PVC, end caps and a bag of salt. Build these awesome new PVC ice pipes that will turn any cooler into a deep freeze and have all the rave of a Yeti and now you have to lower your deep freezer temp costing you more on your monthly electric bill than the bags of ice your Yeti is guaranteed to save? Heck I might just put my deep freeze in the truck bed and plug it in to a power converter. I bet if I drive the ranch twice a day with it running it would keep everything nice and cold and I would never have to buy ice.
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:37 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by BonesandArrow View Post
I may have just came up with something brilliant... Maybe. So bare with me. You buy a $400 yeti to save ice and you are not impressed. So you get out your old dusty igloo and then go buy PVC, end caps and a bag of salt. Build these awesome new PVC ice pipes that will turn any cooler into a deep freeze and have all the rave of a Yeti and now you have to lower your deep freezer temp costing you more on your monthly electric bill than the bags of ice your Yeti is guaranteed to save? Heck I might just put my deep freeze in the truck bed and plug it in to a power converter. I bet if I drive the ranch twice a day with it running it would keep everything nice and cold and I would never have to buy ice.

I know you're joking but...
Freezers are geneally set around 0 degrees F. Saltwater freezes at 28 degrees F.
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:28 PM   #75
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After reading this thread all I know is I want to get up and go get a cold beer.....thanks fellas!
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:38 PM   #76
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Hey folks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:04 PM   #77
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I read where a guy made these by filling clean/new diapers with water and then removing the wet gel from the diapers and filling the PVC tubes with that. Said due to the gel, it would stay colder/frozen longer than plain water or salt water.

Can anyone verify or debunk this?
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:48 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Black Gold View Post
I read where a guy made these by filling clean/new diapers with water and then removing the wet gel from the diapers and filling the PVC tubes with that. Said due to the gel, it would stay colder/frozen longer than plain water or salt water.

Can anyone verify or debunk this?
In all honesty...................I aint messing with no diaper clean and more so dirty.
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:54 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by CrookedArrow View Post
In all honesty...................I aint messing with no diaper clean and more so dirty.
If it would work, I have no issue with buying a pack of diapers and putting these together in my garage. Once done and the caps glued on, no one will ever know you "messed" with a diaper.....
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Old 03-11-2018, 03:10 PM   #80
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Dear God, please help me explain this so that these folks STOP THE MADNESS....

Salt water does freeze at a lower temp than pure water. HOWEVER....it also thaws at a lower temp, NOT A HIGHER TEMP.

If you put both bottles in a freezer set at 0-deg, a few things will happen:
1. At 32deg the pure water will freeze.
2. At a lower temp, lets say 20deg (depending on amount of salt) the salt water will freeze.
3. Both bottles will continue to drop in temp until they reach the freezer setting....ZERO.

THEN....When the thaw starts happening:
1. The transfer of heat (the difference between the water and the air around it) will begin immediately and will happen at a rate dependent on how great that difference in temp is.
2. The salt water will melt at 25deg
3. The pure water will melt at 32deg

I don't care if its in pipe, water bottles, milk jugs or water balloons, THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN EVERY SINGLE FREAKING TIME BECAUSE SCIENCE.

Another example:
The sea can freeze and does in some areas. The temp at which the ocean becomes ice is about 28degF. Guess what temperature the ocean thaws at? Give you three guesses. Take your time. It's 28degF.

Last edited by curtintex; 03-11-2018 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 03-11-2018, 04:25 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by curtintex View Post
Dear God, please help me explain this so that these folks STOP THE MADNESS....

Salt water does freeze at a lower temp than pure water. HOWEVER....it also thaws at a lower temp, NOT A HIGHER TEMP.

If you put both bottles in a freezer set at 0-deg, a few things will happen:
1. At 32deg the pure water will freeze.
2. At a lower temp, lets say 20deg (depending on amount of salt) the salt water will freeze.
3. Both bottles will continue to drop in temp until they reach the freezer setting....ZERO.

THEN....When the thaw starts happening:
1. The transfer of heat (the difference between the water and the air around it) will begin immediately and will happen at a rate dependent on how great that difference in temp is.
2. The salt water will melt at 25deg
3. The pure water will melt at 32deg

I don't care if its in pipe, water bottles, milk jugs or water balloons, THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN EVERY SINGLE FREAKING TIME BECAUSE SCIENCE.

Another example:
The sea can freeze and does in some areas. The temp at which the ocean becomes ice is about 28degF. Guess what temperature the ocean thaws at? Give you three guesses. Take your time. It's 28degF.





Would their be ANY benefit to using the diaper gel with water over pure water in the tubes as far as keeping it colder longer?
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Old 03-11-2018, 04:38 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Black Gold View Post
Would their be ANY benefit to using the diaper gel with water over pure water in the tubes as far as keeping it colder longer?
I don’t know about diaper gel but I made some PVC tubes using the gel that is in those one-use freezer packs used to send perishables in the mail. I tried them this weekend - they stayed cold longer than the frozen water bottles.
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Old 03-11-2018, 04:41 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by jerp View Post
I don’t know about diaper gel but I made some PVC tubes using the gel that is in those one-use freezer packs used to send perishables in the mail. I tried them this weekend - they stayed cold longer than the frozen water bottles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Gold View Post
Would their be ANY benefit to using the diaper gel with water over pure water in the tubes as far as keeping it colder longer?


I don’t know. I was only speaking of water v. saltwater.
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:07 AM   #84
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I just made 7 of these, using foot long pieces of 1" PVC. I put salt water in a couple of them, and put the gel stuff from a couple of leaking "blue ice" type freezer packs in the others. The salt water tubes worked like a champ in my soft sided beer cooler. I haven't tried the gel filled ones yet, but I'm sure they'll work just as well. SCIENCE
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Old 04-02-2018, 02:35 PM   #85
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Very amusing thread.

.02 provided and my .02 is always free

Pay attention to the plastic containers you are freezing IF you plan to consume later.

Freezing (and boiling) water in some plastics will release dangerous chemicals into the contained water. NO BS.
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:34 AM   #86
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Another science tidbit. Water with glycol antifreeze. Lowers the freezing point, once the temp gets to the lowered freezing point, it becomes a slurry. Some of the water forms ice, causing the glycol concentration in the remaining water to be higher, thus lowering the freezing point of the remaining mixture.
Also stated earlier, when water begins to freeze, it remains 32°, as does the ice, until all of the water is frozen, then the ice temperature will begin to lower, if heat is still being removed. Of course it takes 1 btu per lb. to raise or lower 1 lb of water.
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:51 AM   #87
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Accidentally posted so I will continue. Basic refrigeration 101

The latent heat of fusion is the amount of heat that is removed when ice is created. It takes lots more btu's than changing the temp of water. I don't remember the numbers as its been too many years since refrigeration school but I could look it up but its not needed if you understand its lots more, and that's the way it works. So that's what makes ice so much better in your cooler than cold water.

Similar on the other end with steam. Water and steam stay the same temp 212° until it is all steam, taking huge amounts of heat to evaporate the water. Once again, cant remember the exact amount in btu's. To get the steam hotter, the boiler is sealed, as as the water is turned to steam the pressure rises, making the steam hotter. 100 lb steam is 300°. The massive amount of energy is what makes steam so useful for as a power and heat source. Also, this process is how your a/c works, only adding heat to evaporate a refrigerant instead of water.
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Old 04-23-2018, 12:39 PM   #88
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holy Toledo Batman....

i watched a guy on youtube make two of these things, one with water and the other with salt water. he then placed two steaks on the tubes. The saltwater tube froze the meat and the other one didn't. i think that is proven by the comments above of the freezing temp of saltwater.

He didn't see which one lost temp faster but his point is that it will aid in preserving your ice. if ice stays frozen then it will work longer.
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:06 PM   #89
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I made several 2 inch pvc "ice packs"... What is most practical for me is that I don't have to drain the cooler after getting home... I simply place the pipes back in the freezer and no need to buy ice or use up too much of the ice from ice maker... Additionally, no worries about cold water getting into the containers you are trying to keep cool... Works great for my lunch box...
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