All walk to 4-/2??

[WItoTX]

Culling should be based on what the land can hold, not antlers. In other words, it should be a certain number of each demographic of deer that is killed each year, to maintain a balance of does, bucks, and fawns.

Every single deer above the amount your piece of land can support will put stress on the bucks, as they compete for resources, especially during antler growing season, and will reduce antler size.

[txwhitetail]

Without question, you'll have better quality deer if you hold off until 4 1/2 to make the call.

Better quality than what? If you shoot off the lower end at 3.5 wont your 4.5 average the next year be better than keeping the low end of an age class?

[Doe Doe Spike]

Better quality than what? If you shoot off the lower end at 3.5 wont your 4.5 average the next year be better than keeping the low end of an age class?

I agree you should "cull" and get rid of lower quality deer at different age classes. You may not see changes overnight but it's better than just shooting random deer in each age class to get numbers down.

[merlin]

Take your culls out before they breed.

[DeadEyeB]

Better quality than what? If you shoot off the lower end at 3.5 wont your 4.5 average the next year be better than keeping the low end of an age class?

The answer is no lol. Even in high fenced areas studies have shown that heavy culling has had a negative impact on mature buck population.

You can't always tell it's dumb to come up with the excuse just so you can pull the trigger.

[Outbreaker]

Ok guys. At the nudging of our biologist it seems, we are changing up Mgmt plan on my lease to allow all deer to walk until minimum of 4-1/2. Honestly, I have some real concerns about this and I'm very much on the fence.
To be clear, I do think the majority of our deer should walk to 4 1/2. However, I don't think you can apply that across-the-board.

I guess it comes down to one of the oldest debates in management. Question being: can you influence the genetics of a free ranging heard by killing culls?

If the answer is no then yes of course we should let every deer get to 4 1/2. If you think that genetics can be influenced by the killing of culls in a free ranging herd, then I don't think you can let every deer get a 4 1/2, because then you are battling more and more of inferior genetics.

What say the GS??

I agree with this with the exception of spikes. TPWD has done exhaustive research showing that 1.5yo spikes should be culled (unless rut is massively late like south texas). 6mo spikes should walk.

[2B4Him]

From personal experience I have seen 'culling' have an impact on genetics. When I first got on my current lease (2007), we had a genetic strain of bucks with good 'first impression' symmetry in their rack, but the right side was completely unbranched - they would have 3, 4, or 5 points on the left, and just a main beam on the right.
Over the next three or four years, we made an effort to shoot every buck evidencing that tendency.
It has been 4 or 5 years since we have seen any evidence of that gene.
Our property is low fenced, 880 acres. Other properties around are hunted (not real heavily), but not managed at all.

[JLivi1224]

From personal experience I have seen 'culling' have an impact on genetics. When I first got on my current lease (2007), we had a genetic strain of bucks with good 'first impression' symmetry in their rack, but the right side was completely unbranched - they would have 3, 4, or 5 points on the left, and just a main beam on the right.
Over the next three or four years, we made an effort to shoot every buck evidencing that tendency.
It has been 4 or 5 years since we have seen any evidence of that gene.
Our property is low fenced, 880 acres. Other properties around are hunted (not real heavily), but not managed at all.

That's interesting. There's the debate in a nutshell.

[DeadEyeB]

I agree with this with the exception of spikes. TPWD has done exhaustive research showing that 1.5yo spikes should be culled (unless rut is massively late like south texas). 6mo spikes should walk.

Dude you got this so wrong it hurts..

Exact opposite and it was Texas A&M.

[breederbuck33]

We use the term "Cull" to allow us to take mature inferior deer out of the herd in hopes that a more respectable animal will come in and take his role.. This is only possible for us to do because we are not under any ARs. We aren't trying to "fix" the gene pool, we are just removing mouths, and making sure a big 6 point isn't ruling the roost around any of our feeders... That being said, in regards to the OP, we try to let all of our deer get 4.5 or better unless there is some special circumstance... Special circumstances would get a 2 or 3 year old put on the list just to allow all members a chance at a cull. Our place has plenty of deer, and we try to take plenty of mouths out of the heard. If there aren't 4 or 5 deer that are 4.5+ that meet the normal criteria for cull then we'll find some 2 or 3 year olds everyone can agree on shooting and not hurting anything.

[txwhitetail]

The answer is no lol. Even in high fenced areas studies have shown that heavy culling has had a negative impact on mature buck population.
.

Lol ok.

I need to start drinking.

[bukkskin]

I would agree with your biologist. I have seen some undesirable 3 yr olds that made a huge jump when they turned 4. Put on 4 or 5 more points and much bigger frames.
Good luck, whatever you decide.