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Old 10-05-2019, 07:22 PM   #1
cantexduck
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Default Still 3í high at 100

So I am stuck and canít figure out the issue. I went to sight in my tbh build rifle. Itís a 7mm08 20Ē. I have a Swarovski 3.5x18x44 on it. I am still 3í high at 100 and I am out of elevation to go down. The scope is in seekins rings. The rings and scope were mounted at APR so itís mounted correctly. A few people have told me to shim the scope. That isnít a option . Are the rings too high ?
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Old 10-05-2019, 07:38 PM   #2
Artos
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No, APR needs to get involved.

Do you have a regular or elevated base?? What's the base / ring set up amigo...something's wrong, you don't want to shim a top shelf gun that should have tight tolerances. Bet it's an easy fix as something isn't matching up.
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Old 10-05-2019, 07:43 PM   #3
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Maybe the rail is mounted backwards?
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Old 10-05-2019, 07:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artos View Post
No, APR needs to get involved.

Do you have a regular or elevated base?? What's the base / ring set up amigo...something's wrong, you don't want to shim a top shelf gun that should have tight tolerances. Bet it's an easy fix as something isn't matching up.
Exactly.
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Old 10-05-2019, 07:47 PM   #5
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Pretty sure the rail is built in the action
Wrong again ! It is a screw on 20moa rail.

Just took scope off and did a mirror test I found on the internet. I can not make the crosshairs match up holding it on the mirror.

Last edited by cantexduck; 10-05-2019 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:08 PM   #6
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3 feet or 3 inches high?
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:09 PM   #7
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Feet. I had to shoot at 25 yards to hit paper. I was 6” high at 25 yards with no down elevation left. I shot at 100 and was 3 feet height.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:31 PM   #8
catslayer
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Message Stick1 on here to trouble shoot it...

Things I can think off to check right off the bat

1. Clearance on the bell of your scope and the barrel.. I've seen that be an issue

2. Is the 20 moa Rail on backwards... It's screw on... Yes it happens simple mistake (my bet is actually this, or a weird situation involving this. The rail not being seated correctly somehow)

3. Optic issue... Swaro should make it right but check other stuff first. Is it adjusting at all?
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aggieman08 View Post
Maybe the rail is mounted backwards?
That's was my first thought as well.
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:43 PM   #10
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Wouldn't mounting a 20 moa rail backwards make the scope shoot lower?
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:43 PM   #11
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Hate to ask, but did you adjust the turret/elevation the wrong way?
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodtrail18 View Post
Wouldn't mounting a 20 moa rail backwards make the scope shoot lower?
Yes, well it would make the barrel shoot lower. However, i could be wrong but I don’t see it being a rail issue as this scope would have enough travel to get on target.

Don’t EVER shim anything on a nice rifle. Whatever it is I’m confident that Robert will get you lined out. Hopefully seekins didn’t put two different ring heights in the same package but that would be pretty obvious upon setup. Was the scope purchased new?

Last edited by kck; 10-05-2019 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:22 PM   #13
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Can you take the front ring off and put it on the rear? if you can, and it changes it substantially, you have mis-matched rings.
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HankTheTank View Post
Hate to ask, but did you adjust the turret/elevation the wrong way?
Even though I would assume He is more than familiar with adjusting scopes, this is the same thing I was going to ask.


Have you tried to start over and use a bore sight and see if you can notice any movement any direction and confirm you are going the right direction and canít get anymore adjustment? This sounds like a very nice setup, sucks that it is having an issue.
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:39 PM   #15
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3 ft high! Anxious to hear why.
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:41 PM   #16
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I bore sighted it at home and the owner at the range did it as well. I am going the right direction in adjustment, when I was able to get it on paper at 25 yards I started out being 8-9 inches high. I was able to bring it down 2-3 inches and then ran out of adjustment down.
The rail looks like it would be impossible to mount backwards unless the maker drilled two holes in the wrong end. The rings look to be the same. I tried shooting two different kinds of ammo just to rule that out. Both were close to the same.
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:57 PM   #17
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Start over, I think the way APR has their rail mounted it’s impossible to mount backwards.
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:57 PM   #18
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Figured you knew what you were doing. I’ve just learned with field techs that sometimes you have to ask obvious first because everyone is human. I’m curious to hear the cause as well.

Is it grouping good even though it’s high?
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:58 PM   #19
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Hopefully itís a quick fix.
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Old 10-05-2019, 10:03 PM   #20
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Interesting. Keep us posted.

Could the rings be over torqued so that you aren't getting full movement from the swaro erectors?
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Old 10-05-2019, 10:05 PM   #21
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Just for grins maybe try a different set of rings if available. Who knows, a dude running the mill at seekins may have been running a regrind on an endmill and forgot to put cutter comp in the program when cuttin ID’s. Yeah I’ve had a couple Glenlivets so I’m coming up with all kinds of off the wall stuff...
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Old 10-05-2019, 10:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBReezen View Post
Figured you knew what you were doing. Iíve just learned with field techs that sometimes you have to ask obvious first because everyone is human. Iím curious to hear the cause as well.

Is it grouping good even though itís high?
Couldnít tell you really. I was having to aim at a rail road tie on the ground to hit paper.
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Old 10-05-2019, 11:18 PM   #23
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Thinking the 20 MOA rail is on backwards. If a muzzle brake is installed, there could be alignment issues and the bullet might be striking the brake.
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Old 10-05-2019, 11:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cantexduck View Post
Pretty sure the rail is built in the action
Wrong again ! It is a screw on 20moa rail.

Just took scope off and did a mirror test I found on the internet. I can not make the crosshairs match up holding it on the mirror.
I'm not by any means a gun guru, but if you can make the scope zero up with it self by doing the mirror test. I would think you have a bad scope
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Old 10-05-2019, 11:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by careybirdwell View Post
I'm not by any means a gun guru, but if you can make the scope zero up with it self by doing the mirror test. I would think you have a bad scope
Doing the mirror thing when I adjust elevation down the crosshair moves up. I run out of clicks before it moves up enough to match.
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Old 10-06-2019, 12:49 PM   #26
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Does the scope have Zero stops? I think the zero stops being set wrong can cause the issue you are referring to.

Last edited by JasonS; 10-06-2019 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 10-06-2019, 01:00 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonS View Post
Does the scope have Zero stops? I think the zero stops being set wrong can cause the issue you are referring to.
This, the z3 swaro you have to take the cap off and adjust the scope with the tool provided
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Old 10-06-2019, 01:30 PM   #28
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Quote:
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This, the z3 swaro you have to take the cap off and adjust the scope with the tool provided

Im not sure about that scope as Ive never played with one. I just had the same problem on a Burris Veracity and then realized my zero stops wouldn't let me adjust my scope down enough, they were set from the factory. I just had to reset them lower. I kept thinking it was my rings, I was using Burris Signature Zee series and kept swaping around inserts.
The owner at my gun range, Evans Brothers's figured it out for me. Guess he sees a lot of stuff, cant beat experience.

There is a YouTube video on the zero stops adjustment for Z3, Z5, Z6 series. it looks like the cap was taken off and a few other pieces to adjust/remove the stops. Seems easy enough to check and see.
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Old 10-06-2019, 02:26 PM   #29
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Have you tried another scope?
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Old 10-06-2019, 03:51 PM   #30
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Default Still 3í high at 100

I would try another scope and rings. I had the same issue with a spare Nikon Monarch and Nikon AR mount. Tried a new scope and rings and it worked prefect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 10-06-2019, 03:56 PM   #31
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I had the covers off the elevation adjustment knob. I will have to go buy some check rings to test out a different scope I guess.
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:02 PM   #32
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Trying a different Scope would be my first choice
With anything mass produced, there’s always a chance.
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:03 PM   #33
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Oh the zero stop situation may be the deal
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:04 PM   #34
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I'm thinking you have the zero stop set on the Scope-- you should have 58MOA of total adjustment on the elevation dial. Once the Zero Stop is set you will only have one revolution of the turret (13 MOA) total.

If you don't have 58 MOA total and the zero stop ISN'T set... then you have a scope issue.

Keep us updated!
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Old 10-06-2019, 05:03 PM   #35
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The rail is mounted right, When you add a cant correctly you are taking adjusting out of the down and adding it to the up essentially. Sounds like the zero stop. Nonetheless you can change base out to zero cant and also be fine
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Old 10-06-2019, 05:24 PM   #36
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Just now seeing this, and you may have already called the shop - but since we are closed letís see if we can help here.

A couple things are easy to rule out from the start. First, your crown will be centered within .0005Ē of the centerline of the action by the chambering method we use...... so your barrel is pointing the right direction Second, the rails on these actions have a section that protrudes out over the recoil lug unless you ordered it with a switch lug setup. That should rule out the possibility of having it mounted backwards. It could be an out of spec rail, but it is very unlikely.

First thing (if you havenít already done it) is to verify that the scope is traveling as far as it should per Swaroís specs. Simply start from where itís bottoming out now and run it up through the full range of travel to see if it is actually giving you all that it should. If youíre coming up short, check that your zero stop is not causing the issue. Found this video that might help with that

If that doesnít solve the issue, post back or send me a pm.
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Old 10-06-2019, 06:05 PM   #37
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Robert
I talked to you Wednesday or Thursday of last week. The scope as all of the adjustments . I went from one extreme to the other and the count is correct.
Does the mirror test hold merit ?
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Old 10-06-2019, 06:38 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cantexduck View Post
Robert
I talked to you Wednesday or Thursday of last week. The scope as all of the adjustments . I went from one extreme to the other and the count is correct.
Does the mirror test hold merit ?
Iíve never done the mirror test, but can see the value in it. This issue comes up from time to time and itís almost always a Swaro when it does. Iíd throw a different scope on there to confirm, but I bet that it is something in that erector. We can send you one to test with if you donít have one immediately available.
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Old 10-07-2019, 12:32 PM   #39
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If you have a lot of windage in it, that can eat up your elevation travel. Something else to look at. Some rings have windage adjustment in them
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Old 10-07-2019, 04:46 PM   #40
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I have the same gun and scope combo that were also mounted and boresighted by APR in Seekins rings. I had just a couple minutes this weekend. Fired 2 shots and couldn’t hit a 2’ x 3’ poster board with a black dot in the center at 100 yards. I had to leave scratching my head. Will check the boresight tonight.
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Old 10-07-2019, 05:17 PM   #41
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My guess bad or mismatched rings.
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Old 10-07-2019, 06:38 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TransPecos View Post
I have the same gun and scope combo that were also mounted and boresighted by APR in Seekins rings. I had just a couple minutes this weekend. Fired 2 shots and couldnít hit a 2í x 3í poster board with a black dot in the center at 100 yards. I had to leave scratching my head. Will check the boresight tonight.
The plot thickens
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Old 10-07-2019, 06:44 PM   #43
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Is it possible you and the fellow above have one high and one medium ring each? Matching unmatched rings!
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Old 10-07-2019, 07:43 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big pig View Post
Is it possible you and the fellow above have one high and one medium ring each? Matching unmatched rings!
That would be nuts.
But weirder things have happened
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Old 10-07-2019, 07:56 PM   #45
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Sounds like to me the rings are not matched. Change them first and see what happens.
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:00 PM   #46
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Trans I will pm you my number. Call me tomorrow.

After talking to Swarovski I might have my elevation problem figured out. I should have 2xx clicks of elevation with my zero stop dial not engaged. I was able to get my cross hairs centered doing the mirror test this evening.
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:39 AM   #47
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I never heard of this so I did a little searching

“once you set your zero (say at 100 yards), you:

take the turret cap off
loosen 4 set screws and slide the stop until it touches
tighten set screws
put cap back on.


now your zero is as far down as it will go. if you dial up whether is 5 or 65 minutes, without looking, you can just turn your turret down until it stops and it will return to your zero.

I am sure no one else has done this, but on occasion i will get my gun ready to go shooting and I notice that it is dialed up. (was it one revolution, or three?) with the zero stop, just turn down until it stops and you are good to go”
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Old 10-08-2019, 09:16 AM   #48
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Those Seekins rings should be sold in serialized sets. You should be able to check that quickly.
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:16 PM   #49
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I just got back from the range. I was able to get my rifle zeroed in no problem. APR did not boresight the rifle. I did it by hand in my backyard last night at 25 yards and it wasn’t even close.

Gun shot well and printed tiny groups with Nosler factory fodder.
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:59 PM   #50
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God Bless a fixed six
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