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    #46
    Originally posted by 91cavgt View Post
    Pay in the public schools, for the most part, is terrible compared to the private sector. If everyone left because pay is so bad then we would not have any public school employees at all. School bus driver pay is SERIOUSLY horrible, more so than teacher pay. How bad is it? Well, my average MONTHLY take home is $630.

    The only reason most public school employees stay is to help the kids, but for most people this is getting VERY difficult to do. It is starting to get difficult for a lot of people to make ends meet while getting verbally and physically assaulted by students and sometimes parents with no recourse.

    So it comes as no surprise that these strikes and walkouts are occurring.
    It's not just the teacher pay. Most every other skill set is underpaid compared to their private sector counter part. Electricians, HVAC techs, carpenters, plumbers, computer techs, network admins etc etc

    All very specialized and crucial skills for any organization... especially a large school district. Think one could function without computers? How about electricity or functioning toilets?

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      #47
      Originally posted by systemnt View Post
      Curious....Why would having attainable goals for individual students in grade school be 'ridiculous'?
      Sound like you want a College or University job...where you can lecture and not actually develop students.

      That said.. I agree teachers need more money. We have teachers in our family, and tons of friends are teachers.
      But the money comes from one place - and like I said in an earlier post, until that is fixed - might want to get a second job.
      There is not time in the year to develop a personalized individual goal for 150 students. It would take about 4 hours per student of individual evaluation and goal development. That would be 15 weeks of work to develop the goals. Then you would have to develop 150 individual lesson plans to meet deficiencies to accomplish goals.

      A generalized goal for what I want to see my students be able to do by the end of the year (which is what I did when I taught in college)......I already do that.

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by systemnt View Post
        I can assure you the 5 families I know that share a rental house in an old subdivision i owned property in..,..and drop their kids off at everymorning so they can catch a bus to school in a district they dont live in.. dont pay 1 ****in dime in school taxes for 11 (yes - 11 kids goin to that school..)
        And i can also guarantee you that those 11 kids.. get their lunchs free (to them), and materials ....because i ****in asked the teachers.
        So you are saying that 80% of all the students are doing this?

        They are still paying taxes in the district that they are living in.

        Comment


          #49
          In an average Texas school without wind, oil, or nuclear, teachers start out making about $28,000 a year. Most school stop the step increase at twenty years at $45,510. So, if you teach for thirty years, your last ten are capped at $45,510. If you do the math, a beginning teacher that works 187 day contract 8.5 hours (paid) per day, comes out to $17.50 per hour. This salary is paid out over 12 months not just the 9 months they work. They do not get paid for their summers off. They do get a pro rated check in the summer months. Our district pays $300 towards health insurance. With two of us working here, that's a total of $600 and we still have $950 deducted for family health insurance. An insurance with outrageous deductibles and out of pocket expenses. Teachers work for the same state of Texas as DPS, TXDOT, and legislators. When our years of service and age = 80 we can retire. We have the privilege to make about 65% of that $45,510 plus pay for our own overpriced insurance. Sounds like a hell of a deal to me.

          Let me assure you that my teachers work a whole lot more than 8.5 hours a day and spend their own money for what they need in the classroom. We drive old buses, the newest vehicle is an Ag truck bought last year. Before that an '08 suburban with over 200,000 miles on it. We did build a new secondary building last year. Our 1945 WPA building just wasn't getting it done any more. Our athletic programs operate on a shoestring budget. Don't ever tell me we are wasteful.

          Comment


            #50
            I understand their concerns but......if I'm not happy with my current employment situation its time to leave. In my trade if industry pay is not high enough to retain quality employees, employers up the pay to attract the workforce they prefer. Not an advocate of organized labor at all.

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by Mudslinger View Post
              I am going to put a challenge up to any of you on the GS.

              IF you think we make enough money or tell us if we do not like what we are getting paid, then go find something else that will pay us what we think we are worth, THEN come and stand in my shoes for 1 week and deal with 16 kids from K thru 5, deal with the behaviors, deal with the academics we are responsible for, deal with the paperwork were are responsible for and deal with these kids when we have no way to discipline them and these kids know it. This is on a daily basis and i doubt very seriously that many of you work in an environment where you can get hit with chairs, belts, shoes or whatever they can get their hands on and get spit on and bloodied every stinking day! I doubt many could even last 2 or 3 days. Do not sit there and tell teachers all the time they have off when most if they are good work way more than the time they spend at school. We have trainings after school and during the summer and have to do trainings to get some of the time off. All teachers have become because of politicians is glorified baby sitters. We spend more waking time with your kid during the school year than most parents do.
              Do I think we deserve more pay, HELL yes, but I do what I do because I love this job and want to help these kids. Are public school messed up, YES, no discipline and all they can teach for is the STAAR test and YES, no one gets a failing grade. They can be held back one time in elementary and that is it no matter how far below grade level they are.

              My teaching assistants also make way less than the $15 per hour some fast food workers are getting!

              I love fishing but I cant make a living doing it.

              My property taxes are already my biggest bill. I don't want to pay any more.

              If these folks want to make more money, learn to weld or heck I hear the oil field is hiring

              Comment


                #52
                Yup..if i could find someone to pay me what i make for a living now to drink beer on my back porch...id be doin that.
                But since all my craigslist ad's go unanswered by everyone but Nigerian kings... guess ill have to settle for the Job that pays me what i need.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by Mudslinger View Post
                  I am going to put a challenge up to any of you on the GS.

                  IF you think we make enough money or tell us if we do not like what we are getting paid, then go find something else that will pay us what we think we are worth, THEN come and stand in my shoes for 1 week and deal with 16 kids from K thru 5, deal with the behaviors, deal with the academics we are responsible for, deal with the paperwork were are responsible for and deal with these kids when we have no way to discipline them and these kids know it. This is on a daily basis and i doubt very seriously that many of you work in an environment where you can get hit with chairs, belts, shoes or whatever they can get their hands on and get spit on and bloodied every stinking day! I doubt many could even last 2 or 3 days. Do not sit there and tell teachers all the time they have off when most if they are good work way more than the time they spend at school. We have trainings after school and during the summer and have to do trainings to get some of the time off. All teachers have become because of politicians is glorified baby sitters. We spend more waking time with your kid during the school year than most parents do.
                  Do I think we deserve more pay, HELL yes, but I do what I do because I love this job and want to help these kids. Are public school messed up, YES, no discipline and all they can teach for is the STAAR test and YES, no one gets a failing grade. They can be held back one time in elementary and that is it no matter how far below grade level they are.

                  My teaching assistants also make way less than the $15 per hour some fast food workers are getting!
                  Well said...My wife and I are both HS teachers and combined we have to deal with 100-150 students a day. The lack of respect and flat out desire is completely absent in many of the students we teach. Do we feel that we are paid appropriately based on the amount of BS that we have to deal with...NO. But we knew what was on the table when we signed on. What you said was absolutely true.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    I've been teaching about 10 years now and started at the ripe old age of 49. Here's the way I look at it.
                    Most teacher contracts are for 187 days of work, at least here in Texas. That's probably about 75% of what most people work per year. Let's say an average teacher salary in Texas is about $45,000 so that equates to about $60,000 if we had to work like most folks.
                    So you have to ask yourself, is a $60,000 per year job good enough for a four-year college degree, educating +/- 120 students, ensuring the safety of +/- 120 students, handling some crazy parents, and handling the administrative red tape our government puts on public education?
                    Probably not.
                    BTW, Hornet Hunter made some very good points. Both parent and student behavior will continue to get worse and worse as society embraces the "poor baby" way of thinking in addressing our youths' behavioral issues.

                    Comment


                      #55
                      I just want to throw in there, that just about every teach I know has some sort of side job to make ends meet, and more than half who love teaching are thinking about getting out of teaching for multiple reasons.

                      More and more are demanded of teachers. Teacher are "held more accountable" every year, but given less and less resources to do more with.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        You knew it

                        You teachers surely checked to see what the pay scale was before you decided to become a teacher. You can move into another profession anytime you want do no one is keeping you from doing something else. Join the military if your unhappy with teaching. By the way they don't get holidays and Summer's off and make a lot less than you. I appreciate all the teachers out there but tired of hearing how they are over worked and under paid. Some of our best friends are retired teachers and a griping about having to pay part of their insurance. I told them I worked for a major chemical company for 37 years and my insurance is 2x the amount they are paying. My first teacher contract was $9,700 with coaching 3 sports. I started teaching for the same reason as most of you for the kids but when our second child came along I knew I needed to find another profession so I did. Thanks to all the teachers but you knew what you were getting into. Sure the system is broken, dumb tests, too much paper work, disapline, respect from students, number of In service trading days. My brother was a DR. And only had to take 8 hours a year. If some of the problems with the system was fixed then maybe it would be better and that's what I would be trying to change.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          For those that say if you don't like the pay, go find another job. Let's say teacher really did that ( go find another job), where would you and your children be then. You would have to go private or home school. Which now takes one of your family incomes away (cost for private or someone stays home with the kids). Let me know how this works for you.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by gemini2759 View Post
                            I've been teaching about 10 years now and started at the ripe old age of 49. Here's the way I look at it.
                            Most teacher contracts are for 187 days of work, at least here in Texas. That's probably about 75% of what most people work per year. Let's say an average teacher salary in Texas is about $45,000 so that equates to about $60,000 if we had to work like most folks.
                            So you have to ask yourself, is a $60,000 per year job good enough for a four-year college degree, educating +/- 120 students, ensuring the safety of +/- 120 students, handling some crazy parents, and handling the administrative red tape our government puts on public education?
                            Probably not.
                            BTW, Hornet Hunter made some very good points. Both parent and student behavior will continue to get worse and worse as society embraces the "poor baby" way of thinking in addressing our youths' behavioral issues.
                            We just hired a probationary firefighter who is 36, lives with his parents. Mom send him to work with a hot lunch. He has a great attitude but exemplifies what your saying.
                            The cost of a higher education alone is plenty of reason not to go into the teaching career. There is no logical reason a degree in education should cost more than about 50k to obtain. That goes for 90% of college degrees I'm guessing.
                            The attitude of society as a whole is the reason teaching is a difficult career. Its been mentioned several times. Attitudes both kids and parents just plain suk. Not long ago we acted up some in class but we respected the teachers and the principle. We rarely carried our antics to far. These days there is absolutely no way to control a classroom in many districts. I have known a dozen educators from family to current firefighters. The older ones who have retired say it was a great career. The younger ones who gave it up to pursue something else have all said they would not return to the classroom for any amount of money.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by Mudslinger View Post
                              I am going to put a challenge up to any of you on the GS.

                              IF you think we make enough money or tell us if we do not like what we are getting paid, then go find something else that will pay us what we think we are worth, THEN come and stand in my shoes for 1 week and deal with 16 kids from K thru 5, deal with the behaviors, deal with the academics we are responsible for, deal with the paperwork were are responsible for and deal with these kids when we have no way to discipline them and these kids know it. This is on a daily basis and i doubt very seriously that many of you work in an environment where you can get hit with chairs, belts, shoes or whatever they can get their hands on and get spit on and bloodied every stinking day! I doubt many could even last 2 or 3 days. Do not sit there and tell teachers all the time they have off when most if they are good work way more than the time they spend at school. We have trainings after school and during the summer and have to do trainings to get some of the time off. All teachers have become because of politicians is glorified baby sitters. We spend more waking time with your kid during the school year than most parents do.
                              Do I think we deserve more pay, HELL yes, but I do what I do because I love this job and want to help these kids. Are public school messed up, YES, no discipline and all they can teach for is the STAAR test and YES, no one gets a failing grade. They can be held back one time in elementary and that is it no matter how far below grade level they are.

                              My teaching assistants also make way less than the $15 per hour some fast food workers are getting!
                              Brother, I truly feel sorry for all you good people who are doing your best to teach kids but are having to do it in a system that is completely ruined. Liberals have, probably irreparably, ruined our public school system. All the things you just described are infuriating. You and me, as taxpayers, are paying for that mess, and you are working in it every day trying to get positive things done when the whole system you're in is geared toward rewarding negative behaviors and outcomes. I don't know what the fix is, other than completely gutting the system and putting some actual adults in charge again and starting over. The liberal politicians that have ruined the public school system ought to be fired on the spot, if not put into jail, for what they've done and are still doing. But they're growing the ignorant and dependent citizens that they want in the voting booths from now on, so I'm sure they see it as a huge win.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by HC Sniper View Post
                                For those that say if you don't like the pay, go find another job. Let's say teacher really did that ( go find another job), where would you and your children be then. You would have to go private or home school. Which now takes one of your family incomes away (cost for private or someone stays home with the kids). Let me know how this works for you.
                                We did it last year......working out great.
                                I'm poorer for it but my kids will likely be richer ( in more ways than one) for it.

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