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Old 05-04-2014, 04:00 PM   #101
elgato
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one of the most informative thread ive seen on tbh, and after almost 4 years of being on here this will be by first thread to subscribe to Thanks! curious to know if your a biologist or just learn all this information over the years threw trail and error?
I'm not a biologist. I've worked with several and have great respect for them viewing their approach to management as being dictated by science. I find the scientific method too slow for my personality preferring to 'throw spaghetti against the wall and see what sticks.'
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:17 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elgato View Post
I'm not a biologist. I've worked with several and have great respect for them viewing their approach to management as being dictated by science. I find the scientific method too slow for my personality preferring to 'throw spaghetti against the wall and see what sticks.'
Nice read, keep it up. i've already learned a lot from you.
Thanks!
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:05 PM   #103
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Not sure if the image below is working, but I think of that artifact from "The Rundown" every time I read the name "El Gato"

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Old 05-05-2014, 03:07 PM   #104
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Old 05-05-2014, 10:08 PM   #105
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Once again...'thats funny'. I'll get an image of the ranch logo on here. SLightly different impression.
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Old 05-05-2014, 10:53 PM   #106
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May haws about to ripen. Berries make a fantastic jelly . THe birds, squirrels, coons, possums, turkeys, deer...just about everything...likes them. Over the years I have planted numerous orchards around the farm with various varieties of pears, apples, crab apples, plums, Japanese persimmons, and may haws.

Last couple of years I've been experimenting with Dunstan chestnuts with mixed results. I've planted about 40 of them with only modest survival success. Marketing may be better than reality with them?
Any experience with Flatwoods Plums? There are several on a lease I am on that the deer will camp out under in late September/early October. After watching deer fight in early archery season over plums dropping from one of these trees I decided I needed a few on my property. I planted 50 from Supertree Seedlings but only had a few make it while the other trees I planted (dwarf chiquapins, and sawtooth oaks) all made it. I have planted many different types of oak seedlings succesfully but my first go at fruit trees didn't go that well. Do you do anything differently when you plant fruit trees vs oaks?

Love this thread and subscribed by the way.
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:33 PM   #107
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I've never planted flatwood plums. WHile I've planted a few different varieties of plums around I dont plant them much any more. Now I'm mostly planting pears, apples, and Japanese persimmons. Of them all I find pears the hardiest with less insect problems and higher survival. By planting different varieties it spreads out the ripening and drop over most of late summer and fall. Same is true with apples.

WE plant fruit trees same as any other. I use composted cotton seed for 2-3 yrs then dont do much of anything after that. Of course they all require protective sleeves to keep deer from killing them. I also prune for a couple of years to try to get a shape I want then after that let them go.
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:37 PM   #108
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Here's the logo I use
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Old 05-06-2014, 03:15 PM   #109
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Looks good. Is that an East Texas Black Panther?

So are you about to enter a summer lull when it comes to improving the native browse and the food plots?
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Old 05-06-2014, 03:56 PM   #110
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There are no summer lulls around here!
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Old 05-06-2014, 05:17 PM   #111
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Name:  photo 1.JPG
Views: 2539
Size:  179.8 KBCulti packing a disked crimson clover field to plant Alyce clover/joint vetch combo. 10lb/acre of each. I expect the crimson to come back this winter and reseed itself for years to come. Because the Alyce and vetch are legumes they are inoculated first before planting.. My expectation is they will go to seed in the fall. Next spring after the crimson has died I will mow and expect the vetch and Alyce to come back as well. That combo should last many years if managed properly.
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Old 05-06-2014, 06:36 PM   #112
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Love that packer!!!!

That's my favorite implement.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:36 PM   #113
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Much of the farm is poorly drained lowland. So we spent today ditching fields to help them drain. Makes a big difference in field productivity.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:39 PM   #114
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Just bought the new ditcher and unfortunately didnt get any shots of it at work. Here is what it looks like. Cool tool that runs off PTO
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:12 PM   #115
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That's a neat implement that I've never seen!
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:45 PM   #116
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THANKS for this thread! Really enjoy watching your progress!
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Old 05-11-2014, 08:56 PM   #117
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This is fire blight in a pear tree. This particular orchard has had a problem with it for last few years. Tomorrow I will prune all effected limbs and burn . Thats the only solution I know.

The lesson learned is to only buy blight resistant trees.
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Old 05-12-2014, 10:17 AM   #118
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Just caught up Rusty...amazing stuff buddy!!
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Old 05-13-2014, 07:01 PM   #119
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Cowpeas coming up thru the elbon rye thatch. Exactly what I was hoping for. The thatch holds moisture and suppresses weeds while the cultivars come up thru it having been planted with a no till drill. Hopefully the peas, beans and sunflowers jump up and start shading out any weeds that do germinate though I dont mind some weeds in the fields. This is deer farming, not commercial farming.

Have about 50 acres of peas, beans with sunflowers and pearl millet planted and thanks to very timely rains everything is coming up.
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Old 05-13-2014, 07:29 PM   #120
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Looks good. It looks like you also have some arrowleaf clover growing in that spot.
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:15 PM   #121
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Subscribing.........

I had crazy good luck with peas, winter wheat and turnips in the sandy loam of our N.E.T. place. Deer hit it hard. Would like to try clover.

Last edited by Tbar; 05-13-2014 at 08:37 PM..
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Old 05-17-2014, 09:12 AM   #122
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Was a good week on the farm. From Friday thru Wednesday rained a total of 1 1/2" . Everything was planted and got full germination. I'm already noticing leafless stems where the deer are nipping the young plants . It's why I plant a somewhat heavy seeding rate.

Thursday we put out 3 tons of protein. For the last few weeks we have been running wormer thru the feeders. Now we have switched to standard formula which is a custom mixed 20% feed. Our feeders hold 300 lbs each . We will keep protein in them nonstop till the end of August. I have the local mill make our feed on demand so it is fresh when we buy it. From the time of milling till totally consumed is rarely over 2 weeks.The feed never gets old are moldy. This I believe to be one of the keys to feeding pellets especially in the wetter environment of La.

Our custom blend feed contains many of the ingrediants found in all the better feeds....they all use the same stuff ! We add probiotics, digestives and a vitamin/ mineral pac designed for deer. It smells great and is heavily consumed.
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Old 05-17-2014, 10:30 AM   #123
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Have you ever found a wormer additive that worked before you started getting it blended?
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Old 05-17-2014, 11:26 AM   #124
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sorry if i missed it but what does your yearly harvest look like? how many deer do you usually take? do you "cull?"

do you lease any of it, sell any hunts, or just allow family and friends to hunt?

edit: oops, just saw the post on page 2
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Old 05-17-2014, 12:14 PM   #125
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Have you ever found a wormer additive that worked before you started getting it blended?
I assume you mean a commercial feed that has wormer preblended? We've just always blended our own feed and added wormer. The experiment is trying to figure out how much for how long in a wild herd. Also difficult to tell if wormer actually does any good. I think this year we will do some biopsies to investigate parasite load.

By the way we do not feed wormer in Mexico any more. Figure the dry environment is much less conducive to parasites.
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Old 05-17-2014, 03:29 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elgato View Post
I assume you mean a commercial feed that has wormer preblended? We've just always blended our own feed and added wormer. The experiment is trying to figure out how much for how long in a wild herd. Also difficult to tell if wormer actually does any good. I think this year we will do some biopsies to investigate parasite load.



By the way we do not feed wormer in Mexico any more. Figure the dry environment is much less conducive to parasites.

I was wondering if you used wormer in Mexico.
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Old 05-17-2014, 03:50 PM   #127
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Really enjoying this thread
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Old 05-18-2014, 08:00 AM   #128
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First I would like to thank you for all the information, I enjoy the read. I also like the alyce clover and so do the deer on my place. But did you say the alyce will reseed itself? Last year was my first planting of the Alyce but I replanted that spot with winter rye last fall. So what would you suggest would be the best way to maintain an Alyce clover plot. Last year I mixed it in with the beans and peas but this year I set aside about 1 1/2 acre of just the alyce.
and it is coming up nicely. I still added it to the outside edges of the other bean and pea plots. It is a different type of clover compared to my white clover plot that has turned out nice also. Thanks again for the info. to you
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Old 05-18-2014, 08:26 AM   #129
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Good read!
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Old 05-18-2014, 12:07 PM   #130
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First I would like to thank you for all the information, I enjoy the read. I also like the alyce clover and so do the deer on my place. But did you say the alyce will reseed itself? Last year was my first planting of the Alyce but I replanted that spot with winter rye last fall. So what would you suggest would be the best way to maintain an Alyce clover plot. Last year I mixed it in with the beans and peas but this year I set aside about 1 1/2 acre of just the alyce.
and it is coming up nicely. I still added it to the outside edges of the other bean and pea plots. It is a different type of clover compared to my white clover plot that has turned out nice also. Thanks again for the info. to you
Thanks and glad you enjoy.

Alyce is fairly easy to manage into a reseeding perennial IF you have enough planted to keep the deer from eating it all up. I plant it along with vetch in fields dedicated exclusively for them. Being a summer crop I compliment it with crimson for the winter. I let the Alyce go to seed and remain standing till killed by frost. Then in the spring mow it and either cultipak or lightly disc to ensure soil contact. Sometimes will add a ~200 lbs/acre 0-20-20 fertilizer before lightly discing.

Doing this I have had it last many years before needing to rework and replant. When I can get in the fields early enough in the spring ...frequently to wet here then....I will disc and with the first blush of weeds hit with round up. That helps reduce the inevitable weed build up occurring over the years. Both the vetch and Alyce tend to come up first of May more or less so the key is hitting the weeds before the cultivars germinate.

I would repeat something mentioned in earlier post though and that is that I like joint vetch better than Alyce. Deer here like it better also. Great deer food with vigorous growth and I had one field of vetch last 15 years. Both compliment clover nicely as they handle late summer better than clovers which tend to go dormant from heat and lack of moisture.

As a last note, Alyce can handle drier sandier soils where vetch prefers more moisture.
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Old 05-19-2014, 01:14 PM   #131
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This is chicory going to bloom. Time to mow it though deer do love the flowers. I like to mix chicory in permanent clover fields as they have a nice symbiotic relationship. The clover feeds the chicory nitrogen and the chicory is drought hardy and generally doing better late summer.Plus the chicory can last many years if manged correctly. Mowing helps control weeds and stimulates new growth for both the chicory and clover.

Mowing now is a slippery slope as fawns are dropping and turkeys are on nests. I'm only mowing the narrow right of ways and smaller fields that dont have small grains. Does love to drop fawns in fields with tall small grains or the taller clovers like arrow leaf. Thus I'll get to them after June 15 when safer.
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Old 05-19-2014, 04:00 PM   #132
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Hey el gato....are you opposed to the chicory reseeding itself or are you just doing it only for weed control? Any downsides to letting it reseed if weeds are not a problem? Will they still eat it good after it bolts?

I routinely mow my clover in the spring to keep the weeds at bay but have not mowed chicory yet. Thanks.
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:55 PM   #133
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I don't have any experience with reseeding. I've let mine stay in blooming stage for several weeks before mowing and the deer love the flowers. Seems this time of year they eat flowers more than plants. Late summer they eat everything. I've just always read to mow when it blooms so that is what I do. I plant about 2lbs acre and am satisfied with density.
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Old 05-20-2014, 10:07 PM   #134
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Subscribed. Enjoying the education. Thanks for sharing. Keep it going.
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Old 05-20-2014, 10:41 PM   #135
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subscribed, thanks for sharing
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Old 05-22-2014, 06:43 PM   #136
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Saw my first set of fawns today. Pair of twins running like crazy. Had to be at least a couple of weeks old to run as they did. Came out of an arrowleaf clover and elbon rye field where it's certainly possible they were born.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:47 AM   #137
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Keep up all the good work!
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Old 05-25-2014, 11:26 AM   #138
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Bucks are grouping up. Saw 12 together by my house yesterday at 5:00 pm. All ages with some obviously mature. Farm mgr. saw 15 bucks in bean field last week. Antler growth varied but starting to see G-2's . Too early to tell much about quality but it will be happening fast now.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:33 PM   #139
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Great thread. Need more pics/info. Love it. Thanks
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Old 06-03-2014, 01:31 PM   #140
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My food plot experiment this year was to mow a thick stand of elbon rye, crimson, winter peas and radishes and plant the summer cultivars directly in to the thatch. My goal was to use the thatch to suppress weeds, the legumes to add nitrogen and the overall mix to improve organic matter. After abundant rain for germination my impressions are mixed. THe biggest problem is that I mowed the fields with a bat wing bush hog that tended to 'row' the thatch to thickly between the blades and to thinly beneath the blades.

THe effect of all this was weed suppression was essentially a failure. Crops tended to come up in the thinner thatch and lessor to nonexistent in the thickest areas. So I called Jay Brandt, a professional farmer in Ohio utilizing organic no till farming for advise. I learned he drills directly in to the standing crops then rolls afterwards if necessary. Simple!

So, I had a 5 acre field of standing rye I left for the birds and cover for fawning etc. that I decided to experiment with. Today I drilled soy beans directly in to the standing and dead rye, as you can see in the picture. I will come back now with a culti packer and roll again to get a better thatch mat. We had nearly 3" of rain over the past week so moisture should be excellent for germination.Results to follow.

One thing I'm fairly sure of is that the rye left to go to seed in this field will come back strong { for better or worse } this fall.
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Old 06-03-2014, 02:28 PM   #141
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Awesome.....I bet it will be an outstanding soybean crop!

I know a guy that rolls the rye and then plant in it. The coulters will cut through it if you plant in the direction that its rolled. Will be watching to see how yours does.
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:38 PM   #142
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Joint vetch and Alyce clover coming up. The vetch has the mimosa looking leaf and the Alyce the round leaf. They should get shoulder high by early fall. Managed right they become reseeding annuals lasting many years. And the deer love it especially the vetch.

The only thing I dont like about fields with this in them is they become very weedy. Bothers my farmer sensibility but I'm sure the deer dont mind . Of course they eat some of the weeds as well.

I will mow the dead plants early spring then disc lightly. Watching closely I then will spray first weed blush with gly before they sprout. It's the only way I know to somewhat control the weeds. Typically the vetch and alyce germinate a little later as temps warm and get some rain.

While they are only a few inches high now I am already seeing deer starting in on them
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:02 PM   #143
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good info to know, I did the vetch and alyce last spring and summer and I had problems getting the vetch up and going, yep needed to be in moist soil,but the alyce did great. I had some left over vetch seed so I replanted closer to the bottom land this yr. and with your mowing recommendations next spring I hope to keep and alyce field going this time. Thanks for your posting.
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:44 AM   #144
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Does the Alyce and the Vetch get shoulder height or is it just the vetch?
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Old 06-06-2014, 12:49 PM   #145
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Does the Alyce and the Vetch get shoulder height or is it just the vetch?
The Alyce will get 3-5' high as well. I didnt fertilize this year but instead planted in to disked crimson fields. Next yr when I go to lightly disc I will probably add a couple hundred lbs./acre 0-20-20.

As has been said before the Alyce will do better in drier soils where the vetch prefers more moisture.
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Old 06-06-2014, 02:04 PM   #146
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This is blowing my mind. I have been spending a fortune on supplemental feed for the last 6 years and have had good luck with it but I would love to start putting in plots bigger than a few acres. We have planted Lab Lab mixed with Chicory for the last 2 years and the deer mow it down before it gets mature. I guess I need to start planting bigger plots. Love the info and the pix. I am tuned in for sure.
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Old 06-06-2014, 02:42 PM   #147
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Gato you are a BLESSED man... I hope that I can figure out how to earn a place and be able to spend the time and resources you do on it. You've got my dream gig as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 06-06-2014, 04:11 PM   #148
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catslayer.....el gato......may not be good combo

I hope the same for you
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Old 06-06-2014, 05:30 PM   #149
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Just keep it up, I think we are all appreciating the info and time you take to give to this community
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:34 PM   #150
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Here is a 4 acre kidney shaped field primarily in arrow leaf clover with some red ace red clover, crimson,and a little durano mixed in. THe small grain you see is rye. Great combo not only for nutrition but also for fawning and general cover. Whats cool about this combo is that the crimson and small grains grow great thru fall, winter and obviously hunting season. The arrow leaf comes on strong spring thru mid summer and will start dieing mid June laying down flat. I will mow the field late summer, replant the small grains Sept.ish and the process repeats.

This field is in the middle of an 11 acre pine plantation that is about 12 yrs. old. Surrounding that is an oak forest. There is a 15 acre soy bean field about 1/2 mile away. Laying between this field and the soybeans is a 3 acre rectangular vetch field nearly connecting the 2 fields .I would argue that the blind on this field is as good as about any blind anywhere in North America for seeing large homegrown native bucks.
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