TBoT Equipment Rules Question

[Oneway]

Rick.......
I am in no way an expert.......but Ryan Ramsey shot a setup similar to that in the Paris TBOT and was allowed to compete .....I asked why for future reference as was told that it had no moving parts........and met the shelf definition
.

[RickBarbee]

Rick.......
I am in no way an expert.......but Ryan Ramsey shot a setup similar to that in the Paris TBOT and was allowed to compete .....I asked why for future reference as was told that it had no moving parts........and met the shelf definition
.

Thanks Charles.

In my simple minded way of thinking, what you said about the circumstance at the Paris TBoT was the correct decision, but like I said, it's my simple minded way of thinking.

There are even a lot of old wood bows out there, that just can't be shot from the shelf unless it has been modified like this one with a hump on it for a shelf.

Anyways - as I stated in my initial post - I don't want to see this turn into an argument. A decision from the powers that be will be what I accept as the ruling, and I will accept it without question, even if I happen to disagree with the decision.

Rick

[JEFFRO]

I keep seeing peolple refer to metal risers as olympic style bows. That is just wrong.
Olympic bows have long stabilizers, side bars, scope sights, plungers, flippers like this one.
A long way from the pic of your bow, metal dont mean olympic



[ATTACH]451985[/ATTACH]

the word style ment alot in the statment. being the riser is drilled and tapped
witch makes it adjustable, is the front of the riser drilled and tapped for accessory's, not just stabilizers, but for also a bow fishing rig. or an ashtray, hmmm with a clip i'd have a place for my smoke wile shoot'n, the guys at the club do say i'm cheat'n when i hold it inbetween my bottom 2 fingers stick'n out front like a stabilizer, LOL but with the smoke rise'n up it sends a smoke screen in front of my "gap.splitvision,pointofaim" style of shoot'n....
oh look a rabbit. speak'n of rabbits. any body been rabbit hunt'n lately.

hehehe jeffro

[trad"Doc"53]

Rick as I stated earlier in my post I have never pushed the envelope. To me and only my opinion, the shelf is what is built into the bow, actually a structural part of the bow. Anything placed on top of the original shelf is optional making it an elevated rest. I know that pushing the envelope on stuff like this is fun and games for some but there are also those that like it to stay simple. There are groups already formed for ILF and olympic style bows so why try to crowd them in where things are just being kept natural and simple. That would be like me showing up at an olympic event and demanding they make a class just for 50" longbows only and you can only shoot it with a nose ring. I really doubt I would get very far with that one. I use to be a very proud member of TBOT but as of late with their watered down rulings and never knowing from one shoot to the next what to expect on the rulings, I've become somewhat discouraged. And yes they don't like anyone to question the rule but they will not be clear across the board about upholding them the same at every shoot. Now that I have made myself a marked sinner I bid you good night!

[M.E.B.]

There are lots of old wood bows out there that cannot be shot off of the shelf because they are flat because in the 40s and 50 they used arrow rests. But they did not know what was trad yet.

While a rest might give someone some advantage a shelf built up does not bother me.

Thing is most of the guys that are good enough to place own several bows so they have something legal to shoot regardless. And most guys that are good enough to place can shoot just about any thing well.

I really like the looks of the bow Rick.

take care.

Mike

[Bisch]

There are lots of old wood bows out there that cannot be shot off of the shelf because they are flat because in the 40s and 50 they used arrow rests. But they did not know what was trad yet.

While a rest might give someone some advantage a shelf built up does not bother me.

Thing is most of the guys that are good enough to place own several bows so they have something legal to shoot regardless. And most guys that are good enough to place can shoot just about any thing well.

I really like the looks of the bow Rick.

take care.

Mike

I heard somebody on here once say something about "it's the monkey pulling the string".

Bisch

[M.E.B.]

I have a pile of nice bows and the monkey misses alot.

[RickBarbee]

Larry I love ya, but I only agree with one thing you said there - what ever the TBoT rules are, they need to apply at every TBoT shoot, regardless of where it is held. Folks don't need to have to wonder about, or be confused about the rules from one TBoT location to another. They should be able to go to the TBoT site, read the rules, and know what they need to do to be in compliance wherever they go.

As far as ILF is concerned - ILF means International Limb Fit. What that means is - a person with an ILF riser has a wide range of limb lengths & draw weights to choose from without having to be shackled to any single manufacturer. ILF does not mean the bow has some sort of magical power enabling it to out shoot any other bow, and ILF certainly does not in any way make the bow an Olympic or FITA style rig.

I can show you multiple ILF wood riser bows that are configured the same way as this metal riser, but you would never know it unless you knew what you were looking for.

I can also show you multiple all wood bows at even the TBoT shoots where the shelves, and the strike plates have been modified in some way, and those modification often include adding something to the shelf or strike plate to get the arrow positioned where the shooter wants it to be. It is a common practice, that folks have done for decades. It's a normal process of tuning your rig to get optimum arrow flight.

What I've done here is not pushing the envelope. It's no different than any other, except visually more notable, because it is done on the metal riser.

Almost every bow I own that is a wood riser has some sort of modification done to it in the shelf & strike plate area. I make my bows shoot for me, the way I want them to shoot, even if I have to take a rasp & sand paper to them.

My Blackwidow has the same modifications on it as this metal riser. No, the Blackwidow does not have a bolt in it it to adjust the center shot. It does however have a precisely measured amount of material for a strike plate, that places the arrow exactly where I want it to be from center. Should it not be allowed?

In every way - this rig meets the TBoT shelf guidelines. It meets it Technically. It meets it Ethically, and it meets it Morally, because it is not in any way an advantage, or an even an attempt to have an advantage. It's shot from the shelf, and has all the same disadvantages that come along with doing so on any other bow.

As Bisch said - It's the monkey pulling the string that makes the shot. (My favorite quote by Keith Bain)

I really REALLY did not/do not want this to turn into an argument. I've stated my case to the best of my ability as to what this bow is. I'll leave it at that, and wait to hear from the committee with a decision. What ever that winds up being I will abide by.

Rick

[Oneway]

Larry I love ya, but I only agree with one thing you said there - what ever the TBoT rules are, they need to apply at every TBoT shoot, regardless of where it is held. Folks don't need to have to wonder about, or be confused about the rules from one TBoT location to another. They should be able to go to the TBoT site, read the rules, and know what they need to do to be in compliance wherever they go.

As far as ILF is concerned - ILF means International Limb Fit. What that means is - a person with an ILF riser has a wide range of limb lengths & draw weights to choose from without having to be shackled to any single manufacturer. ILF does not mean the bow has some sort of magical power enabling it to out shoot any other bow, and ILF certainly does not in any way make the bow an Olympic or FITA style rig.

I can show you multiple ILF wood riser bows that are configured the same way as this metal riser, but you would never know it unless you knew what you were looking for.

I can also show you multiple all wood bows at even the TBoT shoots where the shelves, and the strike plates have been modified in some way, and those modification often include adding something to the shelf or strike plate to get the arrow positioned where the shooter wants it to be. It is a common practice, that folks have done for decades. It's a normal process of tuning your rig to get optimum arrow flight.

What I've done here is not pushing the envelope. It's no different than any other, except visually more notable, because it is done on the metal riser.

Almost every bow I own that is a wood riser has some sort of modification done to it in the shelf & strike plate area. I make my bows shoot for me, the way I want them to shoot, even if I have to take a rasp & sand paper to them.

My Blackwidow has the same modifications on it as this metal riser. No, the Blackwidow does not have a bolt in it it to adjust the center shot. It does however have a precisely measured amount of material for a strike plate, that places the arrow exactly where I want it to be from center. Should it not be allowed?

In every way - this rig meets the TBoT shelf guidelines. It meets it Technically. It meets it Ethically, and it meets it Morally, because it is not in any way an advantage, or an even an attempt to have an advantage. It's shot from the shelf, and has all the same disadvantages that come along with doing so on any other bow.

As Bisch said - It's the monkey pulling the string that makes the shot. (My favorite quote by Keith Bain)

I really REALLY did not/do not want this to turn into an argument. I've stated my case to the best of my ability as to what this bow is. I'll leave it at that, and wait to hear from the committee with a decision. What ever that winds up being I will abide by.

Rick

Speaking of Keith Bain.......He was talked out of retirement and came and participated in the Lake Crook Shootout @ AFC Paris last year........we are working on a Steak Supper and sit a spell with Keith later this year..........

I like all bow styles, it sure seems that a lot of folks are starting to play with parts and make " Frankenbows" thats what I call'em.......Whatever it takes to have folk show up and shoot.....I aint scared.......Looks Good Rick!

[Bisch]

I emailed the picture to Bud Murphy, and asked him to pass it around to the rest of the committee for a ruling.

Rick

This was the best thing you could do to get a proper answer to your question. Hope I get to see ya at a few shoots this year, Rick!

Bisch

[RickBarbee]

This was the best thing you could do to get a proper answer to your question.

Yep, I'm looking forward to hearing from them.

Hope I get to see ya at a few shoots this year, Rick!

Bisch

I hope to be able to make some, and get to you also, as well as everyone else.

Rick

[meangene1969]

:banghead:

[rubydog]

Speaking of Keith Bain.......He was talked out of retirement and came and participated in the Lake Crook Shootout @ AFC Paris last year........we are working on a Steak Supper and sit a spell with Keith later this year..........

I like all bow styles, it sure seems that a lot of folks are starting to play with parts and make " Frankenbows" thats what I call'em.......Whatever it takes to have folk show up and shoot.....I aint scared.......Looks Good Rick!

Nah.. He and I talked about that shoot and he told me it was last minute and wasn't going to go. He told Ricky Lynn he had something to do and then that fell apart on him. He said more than likely it might be another couple of years before he shoots again. I certainly hope not.

[widdler]

Rick there is nothing wrong with your rest there are no moving parts it should be legal.

[TMiddleton]

I agree with widdler-- The rest is fine in my opinion, no different than a radiused shelf.